News Article: Auston Matthews - August 1st., Contract Crickets

[WillNy29]

There's some gray area in there, but generally speaking, it's impossible to win a Cup with too much cap hit tied into a few players, especially if those players aren't as great as other players who are being paid similarly.

The Oilers are flawed and top-heavy, but their two superstars are so great, if they happen to land a goalie who can get hot for a few weeks, or some of their younger, cheap players like Holloway, Bourgault, and Broberg can surprise, they have a reasonable chance of making a serious run. But it's possible because they have guys who score on par with Gretzky and Lemieux in the playoffs. If McDavid and Draisaitl were scoring like Matthews and Marner in the playoffs, they would have zero shot, regardless of their lucky goalie.

Tkachuk didn't produce playoff points at this level while in Calgary but he's a bad example to choose because he's a unicorn who brings so many intangibles to the table. Plus, consider that Tkachuk just signed a long-term deal this past summer for 9.5 mil (after coming off a 40 goal, 100+ point season) and we willingly paid Mitch Marner 10.8 a few years ago?? Lmao. We're also likely going to submit to Matthews and pay him 14 mil a pop?? You can't compare these guys to Matt Tkachuk and his 9.5 cap hit for 8 years.

And you're talking about a 200-foot game like Matthews and Marner are Bob Gainey and Bobby Clarke when they're far from it. If we thought 200-foot game players are the recipe for success we should trade Marner for Scott Laughton tonight and shouldn't even consider paying Matthews a dollar more than he makes right now.

He literally finished top 3 in selke voting and Matthews regularly finishes top 10 in forward defensive categories every year. its ok not to downplay things your teams players are good at just because you want to throw them in the garbage.

All I am saying is everyone is getting hung up on dumb things here rather than being rational. It's ok to trade players off your team but you also can't act as if they're very meh players and then expect a big haul and also then expect the team to somehow magically get better. it doesn't make sense. I watched the oilers series since they got swept the first time and outside of the run to WCF the two guys up front really didn't accomplish much either. You heard rumblings of people calling McDavid McCasper the friendly ghost (and that's not fair to him or Draisalt because it's a team game and im a huge fan of both players). But even this last playoff after the LA series Draisalt and McDavid were very subpar 5 on 5 for their level of skill. Hell Draisatl went 0g 1a -7 in his last 4 games and McDavid had 1 ESG in that time frame and was -1. I expect more from Matthews and I'm pretty damn annoyed with the way Marner plays in the playoffs but I thought Matthews was a beast in the Tampa series (both of them) and the stats (advanced and scoring metrics) point to that being the case.

The team needs to rebalance and whether that's done by trading Marner or waiting out the Tavares contract that's on the GM. but to say you don't have arguably one of the top 5 centres in hockey on your team just so you can give him away is asinine. If we believe AM and Marner are limp dicks then who is going to trade us enough for them to make the team better? we're likely looking at another 5-10 years of rebuilding and trying to make the playoffs if we blow it up just like Buffalo

 

[Boxscore]

He literally finished top 3 in selke voting and Matthews regularly finishes top 10 in forward defensive categories every year. its ok not to downplay things your teams players are good at just because you want to throw them in the garbage.

All I am saying is everyone is getting hung up on dumb things here rather than being rational. It's ok to trade players off your team but you also can't act as if they're very meh players and then expect a big haul and also then expect the team to somehow magically get better. it doesn't make sense. I watched the oilers series since they got swept the first time and outside of the run to WCF the two guys up front really didn't accomplish much either. You heard rumblings of people calling McDavid McCasper the friendly ghost (and that's not fair to him or Draisalt because it's a team game and im a huge fan of both players). But even this last playoff after the LA series Draisalt and McDavid were very subpar 5 on 5 for their level of skill. Hell Draisatl went 0g 1a -7 in his last 4 games and McDavid had 1 ESG in that time frame and was -1. I expect more from Matthews and I'm pretty damn annoyed with the way Marner plays in the playoffs but I thought Matthews was a beast in the Tampa series (both of them) and the stats (advanced and scoring metrics) point to that being the case.

The team needs to rebalance and whether that's done by trading Marner or waiting out the Tavares contract that's on the GM. but to say you don't have arguably one of the top 5 centres in hockey on your team just so you can give him away is asinine. If we believe AM and Marner are limp dicks then who is going to trade us enough for them to make the team better? we're likely looking at another 5-10 years of rebuilding and trying to make the playoffs if we blow it up just like Buffalo

I get your point and sense the frustration. I get it though, for real. We are in a jam because:

1. There's a hard cap NHL
2. We overpaid for a luxury in Tavares
3. Matthews and Marner haven't been willing to do the Leafs any favors
4. Our core are exciting players who excel during the regular season and make games fun
5. Matthews seems to be bullish about max money on short-term deals regardless

I'd never endorse giving Matthews away, or Marner or Nylander, for nothing. In a perfect world, they'd all want to remain Leafs and take a hometown discount for the betterment of the team. The fact that they don't seem willing to even entertain that idea, is frustrating because it puts us in a no-win situation or a bind where we may need to move one of them for financial reasons.

Then, salaries aside, our star players absolutely need to find a way to perform better in the playoffs, period. If they are going to blame it on lack of depth or support, there's only one way to obtain that, which means they'd have to take less money. It's a vicious cycle with these guys and their contract demands.

The way I see it -- we're fans of the Leafs and we'll still be fans well after Matthews and Marner retire or move on. Therefore I want the Leafs to be a team that can legit compete for a Cup with players who love being here and not just for the money. If these guys aren't willing to do their parts, why should we continue to pamper and spoil them? It doesn't make sense to me. We've seen this play out for 7 years now with the same result. What good is it if Tavares leaves in 2 years but we're paying Matthews 14 instead of 11.8 and Marner 12.5 instead of 10.8 and Nylander 9.25 instead of 6.75? We're still in the same boat imho.

As fans, we've been more than awesome to these players. We've supported this core for years, despite playoff disappointments and disappearing acts. We haven't bashed them at all over the years. But there comes a point where enough is enough and they need to be called out for underperforming, especially when they continue to act like greedy, spoiled, babies.

If Matthews comes out on July 1st and signs for 12.5 x 8, that would show us how committed he is to the organization and how much he values the opportunity to win. He'd reset the tone for the entire team and would be beloved for it. Then when he's 34, he could sign another 3-4 year deal for awesome money, retire a Leaf, and get a cozy job in the organization for life if he wants it. All of this is here for him but he needs to do his part. This isn't the me-me NBA or a sport that can pay their players 30 mil a year. It's just not.

 

[WillNy29]

I get your point and sense the frustration. I get it though, for real. We are in a jam because:

1. There's a hard cap NHL
2. We overpaid for a luxury in Tavares
3. Matthews and Marner haven't been willing to do the Leafs any favors
4. Our core are exciting players who excel during the regular season and make games fun
5. Matthews seems to be bullish about max money on short-term deals regardless

I'd never endorse giving Matthews away, or Marner or Nylander, for nothing. In a perfect world, they'd all want to remain Leafs and take a hometown discount for the betterment of the team. The fact that they don't seem willing to even entertain that idea, is frustrating, because it puts us in a no win situation or a bind where we may need to move one of them out for financial reasons.

Then, salaries aside, our star players absolutely need to find a way to perform better in the playoffs, period. If they are going to blame it on lack of depth or support, there's only one way to obtain that, which means they'd have to take less money. It's a vicious cycle with these guys and their contract demands.

The way I see it -- we're fans of the Leafs and we'll still be fans well after Matthews and Marner retire or move on. Therefore I want the Leafs to be a team that can legit compete for a Cup with players who love being here and not just for the money. If these guys aren't willing to do their parts, why should we continue to pamper and spoil them? It doesn't make sense to me. We've seen this play out for 7 years now with the same result. What good is it if Tavares leaves in 2 years but we're paying Matthews 14 instead of 11.8 and Marner 12.5 instead of 10.8 and Nylander 9.25 instead of 6.75? We're still in the same boat imho.

As fans, we've been more than awesome to these players. We've supported this core for years, despite playoff disappointments and disappearing acts. We haven't bashed them at all over the years. But there comes a point where enough is enough and they need to be called out for underperforming, especially when they continue to act like greedy, spoiled, babies.

If Matthews comes out on July 1st and signs for 12.5 x 8, that would show us how committed he is to the organization and how much he values the opportunity to win. He'd reset the tone for the entire team and would be beloved for it. Then when he's 34, he could sign another 3-4 year deal for awesome money, retire a Leaf, and get a cozy job in the organization for life if he wants it. All of this is here for him but he needs to do his part. This isn't the me-me NBA or a sport that can pay their players 30 mil a year. It's just not.

I'm always going to be leafs over everything; if they trade Matthews tomorrow and guarantee a cup I'd be driving him to the airport and paying for his ticket myself.

There were some big mistakes that got made early in the window (such as not capitalizing on having a younger Tavares who scored 47 goals for us in his first season). Mix that with f***ing around with Marner on his rookie contract (knowing the Marners and the rumours out there they weren't happy with how Lou treated him), but the big f*** up was not taking his 8 x 8.5 offer the year before like was mentioned. Dubas made a huge mistake. At this point its untenable to have all of these guys and also expect them all to tae discounts because you know the PA is pushing them to take higher contracts being in Toronto it benefits all of the players.

If they get Matthews at 8 x 13.5 or whatever I'd take that deal, try to get willy at 8 x 8.5-9 and then look to move Marner for a return that rounds out the team with good D and second line players.

The hard cap is going to f*** a lot of superstars out of Stanley cups or money they should earn because it looks like they won't be able to get both. I don't see McDavid winning while making north of 12.5m because you can't get other super stars with him you just gotta build with second tier players and hope they catch fire like marchessault or something each year. And im not sure that's an NHL I want to watch...

 

[thewave]

I'm always going to be leafs over everything; if they trade Matthews tomorrow and guarantee a cup I'd be driving him to the airport and paying for his ticket myself.

There were some big mistakes that got made early in the window (such as not capitalizing on having a younger Tavares who scored 47 goals for us in his first season). Mix that with f***ing around with Marner on his rookie contract (knowing the Marners and the rumours out there they weren't happy with how Lou treated him), but the big f*** up was not taking his 8 x 8.5 offer the year before like was mentioned. Dubas made a huge mistake. At this point its untenable to have all of these guys and also expect them all to tae discounts because you know the PA is pushing them to take higher contracts being in Toronto it benefits all of the players.

If they get Matthews at 8 x 13.5 or whatever I'd take that deal, try to get willy at 8 x 8.5-9 and then look to move Marner for a return that rounds out the team with good D and second line players.

The hard cap is going to f*** a lot of superstars out of Stanley cups or money they should earn because it looks like they won't be able to get both. I don't see McDavid winning while making north of 12.5m because you can't get other super stars with him you just gotta build with second tier players and hope they catch fire like marchessault or something each year. And im not sure that's an NHL I want to watch...

Or sum it like this.

Leafs signed an albatross in JT who is slow as Clarkson.

Overpaid Marner who is a slow non physical player that gets neutralized every time a team takes it to the body. Makes nifty plays in the regular season and cant shoot.

Matthews overpaid a little and has an injured wrist. Seems to not have PO gear and wants top money always winning be damned.

Nylander is correctly paid. Fast player that can gain zone and rifle the puck. Probably wants a big raise because Marner

 

[Boxscore]

I'm always going to be leafs over everything; if they trade Matthews tomorrow and guarantee a cup I'd be driving him to the airport and paying for his ticket myself.

There were some big mistakes that got made early in the window (such as not capitalizing on having a younger Tavares who scored 47 goals for us in his first season). Mix that with f***ing around with Marner on his rookie contract (knowing the Marners and the rumours out there they weren't happy with how Lou treated him), but the big f*** up was not taking his 8 x 8.5 offer the year before like was mentioned. Dubas made a huge mistake. At this point its untenable to have all of these guys and also expect them all to tae discounts because you know the PA is pushing them to take higher contracts being in Toronto it benefits all of the players.

If they get Matthews at 8 x 13.5 or whatever I'd take that deal, try to get willy at 8 x 8.5-9 and then look to move Marner for a return that rounds out the team with good D and second line players.

The hard cap is going to f*** a lot of superstars out of Stanley cups or money they should earn because it looks like they won't be able to get both. I don't see McDavid winning while making north of 12.5m because you can't get other super stars with him you just gotta build with second tier players and hope they catch fire like marchessault or something each year. And im not sure that's an NHL I want to watch...

I agree with you a lot. But the thing that irks me is this whole "The Lefs stars will be pressured by the PA..." nonsense. Not saying you're wrong, because you're not, you're 100% correct. But to that I say, "Man the hell up and tell the PA to go scratch!" Did all of the Bolts or Avs let the PA pressure them into taking max dollar so their cores were ripped apart? Nope.

We're at the precipice with these guys and something has to give. So far the Leafs (be it miscalculations by Dubas or whatever) have bent over and given this core everything they have asked for and more. Now it's time for the players to reciprocate if they truly love being in Toronto.

Personally, I can deal with the heartache and playoff shortcomings as long as the core are doing their parts, showing commitment and hustle, and not acting like spoiled brats. At the end of the day there's no guarantees and I get that. But when you're watching these players continually scratch and claw for every dollar with the venom they should be scratching and clawing for playoff wins, it reaches a boiling point where they become unlikeable.

 

[WillNy29]

I agree with you a lot. But the thing that irks me is this whole "The Lefs stars will be pressured by the PA..." nonsense. Not saying you're wrong, because you're not, you're 100% correct. But to that I say, "Man the hell up and tell the PA to go scratch!" Did all of the Bolts or Avs let the PA pressure them into taking max dollar so their cores were ripped apart? Nope.

We're at the precipice with these guys and something has to give. So far the Leafs (be it miscalculations by Dubas or whatever) have bent over and given this core everything they have asked for and more. Now it's time for the players to reciprocate if they truly love being in Toronto.

Personally, I can deal with the heartache and playoff shortcomings as long as the core are doing their parts, showing commitment and hustle, and not acting like spoiled brats. At the end of the day there's no guarantees and I get that. But when you're watching these players continually scratch and claw for every dollar with the venom they should be scratching and clawing for playoff wins, it reaches a boiling point where they become unlikeable.

I agree for the most part in this discussion; I don't feel AM has really ever acted like a spoiled brat, I've seen him show he cares (the relief after winning round 1, the shot blocking regardless of if he is scoring or not etc..I have no doubt he breaks through in the playoffs. In fact I would say statistically and eye test wise last two seasons he's looked dominant against Tampa). I also don't think Willy was being a spoilt child I think that was a dubas f*** up (by all accounts he saved $400k or something on the cap but cost willy half a season lol. I do have an issue with how MM has handled his business in Toronto and its brought nothing but bad pressure on himself. Retooling the team and waiting on the Tavares contract to end is key in my opinion but who knows I just want them to win and don't want them to do the stupid shit they did in the past trading away players because the media and fans were out for revenge only for the player to go on an win 3 cups lol

I think Treliving needs to do surgery on the team and it starts with moving a core piece (to round out the team or get a young player of similar skillset) and rebuilding the defence.

 

[mydnyte]

a telling factor that Matthews wants to stay is the fact that he is currently training with Knies.
it would be pretty awkward to train with a young teammate when you are planning on not resigning.

 

[ITM]

I wonder how much hypothetical cap increase projections will play into the club’s plans (and negotiations with agents)for the core minus JT?

 

[Enniskillen]

I don’t care about players who don’t care, no team first mentality especially with marner, who cared more about 100 points in the last regular season game against the Rangers than about winning in playoffs. Same with Matthews. I’d prefer Kadri’s passion and suspensions to a lack of emotion and fear to engage from lamentable core.

 

[Gabriel426]

depends... will McDavid and Draisatl sacrifice blowing the zone for d coverage?

will we get the oiler power play set up?

all I am saying is neither team has won anything and one has 1 series win and the other has 3 in the same timespan....these guys putting up points is not getting it done either considering they're not putting up points in games that matter it seems

Going to disagree as McD and Drai are better players and if they are on the Leafs instead of AM and MM, Leafs would had won more than ONE series in the past 7 yrs.

Let’s compare the supporting class,
Oilers, Nuge, Elberle, Hall/Larsson, Kassian, Poolparty, Yamamoto, Nurse, Hyman, Kane and Ekholm with Smith, Skinner and Campbell. Where Barrie was their No. 2 Dman till this past TDL.
Leafs, Willie, Hyman, JVR, Bozak, Jake, Kadri, Kap, AJ, Marleau, JT, Muzzin, Kerfoot, TJ, Bunting, then ROR, Schenn and McCabe with Andersen, Campbell and Sammy in net.

To think that the differences in performance for the Leafs when swapping McD and Drai for AM and MM will determine on PP time is just wrong. Bc anyone would take the Leafs supporting cast over Oilers supporting cast for the past 7 years and everyone know McD and Drai are the only reason Oilers is not a playoff bubble team.

Lastly, think the Oilers won 4 rounds.

 

[keonsbitterness]

They can talk, they can agree, they cannot sign, they can announce they are both

Not sure they are allowed to announce a deal in advance, though I guess they can leak it.

 

[Boxscore]

a telling factor that Matthews wants to stay is the fact that he is currently training with Knies.
it would be pretty awkward to train with a young teammate when you are planning on not resigning.

I think Matthews has every intention on signing because he feels the Leafs will give him another blank check for the short-term he wants. More important than Matthews just signing is Matthews signing for a cap hit and term that benefits the Leafs.

 

[egd27]

Right, because the Oilers path and the Leafs path are the same. You understand the same Tampa team that needed home cooking to squeak out a game 7 OT victor to beat the Leafs last year, went on to sweep the Oilers.

The takes in here are just (chefs kiss).

When was that?

 

[geo25]

I don’t care about players who don’t care, no team first mentality especially with marner, who cared more about 100 points in the last regular season game against the Rangers than about winning in playoffs. Same with Matthews. I’d prefer Kadri’s passion and suspensions to a lack of emotion and fear to engage from lamentable core.

I agree with you. Players have to want to win on the ice not only at the bargaining table...

 

[Boxscore]

I wonder how much hypothetical cap increase projections will play into the club’s plans (and negotiations with agents)for the core minus JT?

The economy is a mess and doesn't look to be improving anytime soon. If the Leafs base Matthews next contract off presented projections, they are setting themselves up for failure once again. We should be looking at the deals MacKinnon, Tkachuk, and Pastrnak just signed as the measuring stick for Matthews, not some pie-in-the-sky projections that could easily pivot.

Matthews should accept the same 8-year x 12.6 deal MacKinnon just agreed to after winning a Cup. In theory, this deal should be a piece of cake.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Matthews should accept the same 8-year x 12.6 deal MacKinnon just agreed to after winning a Cup.

Matthews is a slightly better offensive player and much better defensive player than Mackinnon was, signing through ages that are a year younger, under a higher cap. No player in his position would accept the same AAV.

 

[Gabriel426]

Right, because the Oilers path and the Leafs path are the same. You understand the same Tampa team that needed home cooking to squeak out a game 7 OT victor to beat the Leafs last year, went on to sweep the Oilers.

The takes in here are just (chefs kiss).

Which part of swapping teams with AM and MM with McD and Drai do you not understand.
Which means Oilers got AM and MM on the Oilers and Leafs got McD and Drai along with JT, Willie, Reilly and company.

 

[Stephen]

Exactly right. Matthews is a young 6-3, 215 horse. He should be bulling over people and owning the play with intensity and vigor. In the playoffs he's way too willing to stay on the fringe and rely on his shot instead of engaging in warfare inside the trenches. MacKinnon does this better than anyone -- he gets the puck and bulls through the zone with fire and anger. This comes down to a player's DNA and the price they're willing to pay to grind it out when the games get harder.

I absolutely agree with Hitch here, and I'll need to listen to the interview in full. Like him or hate him, PK Subban also said interesting things about the Leafs during the Panthers series. He said that once the playoffs start, teams would rather face more talented teams who are easier to play against than the other way around. He said, players look at the Leafs and like that matchup because they are easy to play against. That is a public indictment of the Leafs compete level, snarl, and fight at the top of their roster by a player who has personally faced them and knows them well.

We've heard various comments over the years about the Leafs not being particularly hard to play even if they beat you. I see that. The kind of positionally sound defensive checking of guys like Mikheyev, Engvall, Kampf. It's not going to hurt anyone. There's a lot of sound positional defense, man on man coverage, the mirroring Hitchcock talked about, on top of pucks, etc. But they aren't going through guys.

 

[notbias]

Forget about the term. I'd match it and go 5 if we don't have to NMC him. The Leafs should be a strictly run on... WE DO NOT GIVE NMCs. Honestly if I am Treliving that's what I would become known for. No NMCs in my book Treliving.

NMC is the dagger. 16 Teams no trade lists sure, NMC's are a joke and if we eliminated that we retain asset value, screw these rich princes.

"I want an extra 2 million per year since I don't have much control over my career and NMC are normal for stars"

"I won't sign without the standard NMC that everyone gets"

It seems like we may have some issues.

Or should we just start trading players and start the rebuild now?

 

[baton elevated]

Matthews is a slightly better offensive player and much better defensive player than Mackinnon was, signing through ages that are a year younger, under a higher cap. No player in his position would accept the same AAV.

AM made double Mackinnon's in their early deals. Mac was stuck at $6M for a long time where as AM was already making double. Am is not twice the player Mac is

 

[Stephen]

Matthews is a slightly better offensive player and much better defensive player than Mackinnon was, signing through ages that are a year younger, under a higher cap. No player in his position would accept the same AAV.

8x years and $12.7 million shouldn't be taken as an insufficient offer for just about anyone in the game of hockey. We'll probably pay Matthews well north of $13 million, it's a vanity number for a player on a prestige franchise.

A good counter example to Matthews is Jason Robertson. His 2023 season surpasses Matthews career best in points and looks like he's going to break through the 50 goal mark in the next year or so. He's locked into a sweetheart, pre breakout deal too. Robertson makes $7.75 million and is definitely underpaid. But is Matthews going to realistically give us $5 million in extra value compared to Robertson over the next 4-5 years? And that's just to get to $12.7 million.

 

[Stephen]

AM made double Mackinnon's in their early deals. Mac was stuck at $6M for a long time where as AM was already making double. Am is not twice the player Mac is

Matthews career earnings actually outpace Mackinnon's $52.9 million to $46.8 million right now with 3 fewer seasons in the league. With Matthews new deal kicking in, Mackinnon likely won't ever catch him.

 

[baton elevated]

Matthews career earnings actually outpace Mackinnon's $52.9 million to $46.8 million right now with 3 fewer seasons in the league. With Matthews new deal kicking in, Mackinnon likely won't ever catch him.

Thanks, that's my point. AM shouldn't be asking more than that 8/$12.7M

 

[thewave]

"I want an extra 2 million per year since I don't have much control over my career and NMC are normal for stars"

"I won't sign without the standard NMC that everyone gets"

It seems like we may have some issues.

Or should we just start trading players and start the rebuild now?

Its not a cool situation we are in. Lets just agree that the last 5 years didn't really get us as close to what we wanted as we hoped?.

Can we all agree on that and keep the peace among fans?

 

[notbias]

Its not a cool situation we are in. Lets just agree that the last 5 years didn't really get us as close to what we wanted as we hoped?.

Can we all agree on that and keep the peace among fans?

Yes, I think in the last five years only 4 teams achieved their goals, 100% agree.