Auston Matthews 69 goals in 81 games, most goals scored since Lemieux in 1995-96

[A Loyal Demidog]

An absolute beast of a player!

 

[Arthur Morgan]

he’ll rival Ovie when it’s all said and done

I dunno some people seem to think Ovechkins goals are worth more than Matthews so even if he does one day pass him it wont really be passing him
for every 60 goals Matthews scores is valued around 40 Ovechkin goals.

 

[MCR74]

Man this thread is an absolute salt factor. Just keeps on giving. Embarassing drunk uncle on twitter tier takes in here lmao

It'll only get worse if he hits 70.

 

[bobholly39]

Don't look now, but Matthews was far more physical in last year's playoffs than Mats ever was.
The last time before Toronto had a physically imposing 1st line centre was certainly before my time, so at least 30+ years now.

Then again, there have only been a handful of them in the league in that period of time.

Matthews plays a rather heavy physical game, not by delivering thundering hits, but by going to the dirty areas and separating the defenders and/or forecheckers from the puck, by going into the slot for scoring chances, and by generally never playing a perimeter game.



Don't worry.

When Phil was a Leaf, he was the most overrated player in the league. The moment he left and made the Star Wars spoof vid for Pitt, he was instantly the lovable Ironman who everyone enjoyed having around.
He went from the cancer in the room wh9 poisoned all his teams and would never amount to anything, to back to back champion and had a large contingency outraged he was overlooked for the Conn Smythe.


The same would happen in a hypothetical world where Auston leaves Toronto.




McDavid is generational.
I still don't think Matthews fits that billing.

He is a goal scoring phenom, but i wouldnt go as far as generational.

That's McDavid, Mario, Wayne, and Orr.

Nobody else fits the bill in that sense.

Sid is an overall better player than Connor, but he is too well rounded and not enough of an outlier offensively to fall into that category, I don't think.




Mario is the most gifted player of all time, and the greatest goal scorer.

I don't know if it's particularly outrageous to state these 2 opinions as facts.

Wayne is the greatest player, but he relied on his ability to manipulate the game and players into doing his bidding rather doing it himself like Mario did.



You're wrong and should feel bad about being so confident despite having such an ill informed opinion.

Just to comment on what you said about Mario....

most gifted player ever? Definitely, and moreso than Gretzky (Orr is up there too)

Best goal scorer ever? Without a doubt.

Greatest goal-scorer? To me, greatest is more about accomplishments than ability. Mario has a case for greatest, but I don't think he's #1. I think both Ovechkin and Gretzky are ahead, with Lemieux and Bobby Hull 3 and 4.

Not sure why people are laughing at this, he aged much better than Gretzky as a goal scorer and in a harder to score era.

If Lemieux had full health (or at least - no major injuries) and played a full career, in my opinion:


Absolute minimum he surpasses 1000+ career goals. Possibility he goes as high as 1100-1200+.

As for single goalscoring season of 92+ goals? Very good chance he surpasses it - in 92-93, or one of surrounding seasons. But - not a certainty, only a possibility. More like 50/50. I could see him having a bunch more 70+ and maybe even 80+ goal seasons with no injury. Perfect storm peak season he might have hit 100+

 

[pcruz]

I'm sure it had nothing to do with all the bullshit about Phil from Toronto. Nothing at all! It was definitely everyone else.

You guys are weirdly obsessive about negative things. Look at any mention of Dubas. Followed by a bunch of Leafs fans trying to dunk on anyone who isn't critical. It was the same with Phil.

What did Phil do in Toronto to merit the trashing by other fanbases, exactly?

I'm really curious to know.


Perhaps you could list these events in point form for me.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Just to comment on what you said about Mario....

most gifted player ever? Definitely, and moreso than Gretzky (Orr is up there too)

Best goal scorer ever? Without a doubt.

Greatest goal-scorer? To me, greatest is more about accomplishments than ability. Mario has a case for greatest, but I don't think he's #1. I think both Ovechkin and Gretzky are ahead, with Lemieux and Bobby Hull 3 and 4.



If Lemieux had full health (or at least - no major injuries) and played a full career, in my opinion:


Absolute minimum he surpasses 1000+ career goals. Possibility he goes as high as 1100-1200+.

As for single goalscoring season of 92+ goals? Very good chance he surpasses it - in 92-93, or one of surrounding seasons. But - not a certainty, only a possibility. More like 50/50. I could see him having a bunch more 70+ and maybe even 80+ goal seasons with no injury. Perfect storm peak season he might have hit 100+

He was going to seriousley challenge both the goal n points records in 89 n 93
89 goals and 209 points in 80
92 goals and 213 in 80 in 93.

On pace for 97 goals and 224 when you factor in the 84 season. I think given that it was a very good possibility in 93. Even without the 4 extra games it would have been very close

 

[Madap]

Incredible season.

But 38 assists is hilarious. I hadnt looked at his point totals in a while, so seeing he was closing in on 70 goals I thought hed be within striking distance of the points lead. Nope

Draisaitl has 2 less points and has been a less than spectacular season for him

No slight to Matthews, hes been a top 5 player in the league for sure and his underlying metrics back that up, but only 38 assists is crazy low for a player like him. Puts him tied for 78th in the league with the likes of Matias Maccelli

Draisaitl lmao. Stop dude, you’re killing me hahaha

I think Matthews safely put that argument to bed this season, although anyone who knew anything about hockey knew Matthews was already a far superior hockey player. Secondary PP assists ain’t changing that.

 

[authentic]

He was going to seriousley challenge both the goal n points records in 89 n 93
89 goals and 209 points in 80
92 goals and 213 in 80 in 93.

On pace for 97 goals and 224 when you factor in the 84 season. I think given that it was a very good possibility in 93. Even without the 4 extra games it would have been very close

He wasn’t even healthy for these seasons either

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

He wasn’t even healthy for these seasons either

89 he was fully healthy? Wasent that before his back troubles had begun?

 

[WillTheThrill]

Matthews greatest skill appears to be turning posters' brains into tapioca. Some of the takes in this thread should result in bans they are so bad.

HF has always had a weird hate for Matthews. If he was on any other team it would be nothing but praise.

 

[bobholly39]

He was going to seriousley challenge both the goal n points records in 89 n 93
89 goals and 209 points in 80
92 goals and 213 in 80 in 93.

On pace for 97 goals and 224 when you factor in the 84 season. I think given that it was a very good possibility in 93. Even without the 4 extra games it would have been very close

Not in 89. He came close, but 76 games is already no major injuries. He wasn't going to beat either that year

But in any of 90, 91, 92 or 94 with no major injuries, odds are each year he'd be potting ~70+ goals and ~180+ points. In any of those years, he might have challenged it.

92-93 also of course - but that season likely plays out differently if healthy. He had an insane stretch of 28 goals and 48 points in his last 14 games that season. Extra motivation when back from cancer treatment. He probably doesn't finish as strong under different circumstances, but you never know

89 he was fully healthy? Wasent that before his back troubles had begun?

To me 100% perfect health is unrealistic and scifi. So i rather go with the premise of "no major injury" as that's a lot more realistic.

So its still 76 games and 199 points in 89, where he was healthy yes.

Its mostly in 1990 and beyond the back issues and such materialized big time where he could have done a lot better with no major health issues.

 

[bobholly39]

HF has always had a weird hate for Matthews. If he was on any other team it would be nothing but praise.

Most people are rooting for him and cheering him on for 70+ goals

 

[BobCole]

Matthews' season is truly incredible and we should give him all the credit in the world for it. It's a treat to watch.

With that said, let's calm down on claiming that he's a shoo in to match or surpass OV'S totals. He'd need 50 goals per year for the next TEN SEASONS to do so. OV's goal scoring has been absolutely remarkable in terms of its longevity. It remains to be seen whether Matthews can produce at this level for another 5, 10 seasons or beyond.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Not in 89. He came close, but 76 games is already no major injuries. He wasn't going to beat either that year

But in any of 90, 91, 92 or 94 with no major injuries, odds are each year he'd be potting ~70+ goals and ~180+ points. In any of those years, he might have challenged it.

92-93 also of course - but that season likely plays out differently if healthy. He had an insane stretch of 28 goals and 48 points in his last 14 games that season. Extra motivation when back from cancer treatment. He probably doesn't finish as strong under different circumstances, but you never know



To me 100% perfect health is unrealistic and scifi. So i rather go with the premise of "no major injury" as that's a lot more realistic.

So its still 76 games and 199 points in 89, where he was healthy yes.

Its mostly in 1990 and beyond the back issues and such materialized big time where he could have done a lot better with no major health issues.

For me scoring 3 less goals and 6 less points at records that nobody at the time had come within 14 goals and 63 points of is challenging to a serious degree
1.12 gpg and 2.62 ppg is narrowly close to 1.15 gpg and 2.69 ppg. But to your point yeah mario played enough games in 89 that he likely wouldnt have beat it. But could mario score 17 points in 4 games or 8 goals in 4 games? Hell yeah to both.

92-93 he has 104 in 40. 2.60 ppg. By this point he "only" had 39 goals in those 40 games for "only" 78 goals. So before the cancer he was on pace for 78 G 130 A 208P in an 80 game season. I agree with you that the goal record was not in the hot zone at that time. But peak lemieux healthier than he had ever been post 89 pacing for 208 in 80 or 218 in 84 games. Wayne was probably watching the stats intently lol. All in all wish we could have seen 80 games out of a healthy mario in 93. Just to see the numbers. It would have been very close.

 

[Strangle]

he’ll rival Ovie when it’s all said and done

He already does, he’s coming out ahead so far

 

[Mirka the Turka]

After the news of Arizonas departure, will Matthews have it in him to score another goal?

Matthews' season is truly incredible and we should give him all the credit in the world for it. It's a treat to watch.

With that said, let's calm down on claiming that he's a shoo in to match or surpass OV'S totals. He'd need 50 goals per year for the next TEN SEASONS to do so. OV's goal scoring has been absolutely remarkable in terms of its longevity. It remains to be seen whether Matthews can produce at this level for another 5, 10 seasons or beyond.

Honestly the way Matthews plays tells me he could keep this up like Ovechkin. Ovechkin had to change his game up to become the GOAT goal scorer, but Matthews has never relied on speed at all.

The only thing stopping Matthews would be an injury or the Arizona relocation news

 

[Strangle]

I dunno some people seem to think Ovechkins goals are worth more than Matthews so even if he does one day pass him it wont really be passing him
for every 60 goals Matthews scores is valued around 40 Ovechkin goals.

Ovechkin goals are worth 1.0 goals, because the history of the league revolves around the worst era in NHL hockey history.

Everyone else’s goals have to be scored at 0.99 Ovechkin goals or less (sometimes much less), because HFboards believes in equity of talent.

Instead of proclaiming “goals are up!” We should be saying they are still way down. They just hit rock bottom when Ovechkin played. Didn’t seem to stop him from scoring 65, though … weird how that works, I guess?

The league still has a ways to go to reach peak awesome NHL standards, but it’s much better than it was in the dark ages of 2003

I suspect a lot of hfboards posters were born between 1993 and 2003-ish and their only frame of reference is the terrible Crosby and Ovechkin era

This shit is blowing their minds like Gretzky blew ours and they’re scrambling to make sense of it all and they can’t

What they refuse to do is admit that Matthews is a better goal scorer than Ovechkin was through the same amount of games played to this point of their careers. Although that is the blatant and objective truth. They deny reality

 

[sepHF]

14 goal gap between 1 and 2 is pretty impressive. Ill be watching the last couple Leafs games to see if he can do it

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Incredible season.

But 38 assists is hilarious. I hadnt looked at his point totals in a while, so seeing he was closing in on 70 goals I thought hed be within striking distance of the points lead. Nope

Draisaitl has 2 less points and has been a less than spectacular season for him

No slight to Matthews, hes been a top 5 player in the league for sure and his underlying metrics back that up, but only 38 assists is crazy low for a player like him. Puts him tied for 78th in the league with the likes of Matias Maccelli

But he's a goal scorer, you will never see him with more assists than goals that's not his role that's not whypeople watch him.

Much like you will never see Mitch Marner have more goals than assists that's not his role

 

[Zybalto]

Matthews sits at:

1st in the league for goals by a mile
6th in the league for points
3rd in the league for primary points
3rd in the league for takeaways
3rd in the league for blocked shots by a forward
6th in the league for 5v5 shots against/60 (out of 102 forwards with 1000+ minutes)
54% on the dot

Just a crazy complete player.

 

[pcruz]

Matthews sits at:

1st in the league for goals by a mile
6th in the league for points
3rd in the league for primary points
3rd in the league for takeaways
3rd in the league for blocked shots by a forward
6th in the league for 5v5 shots against/60 (out of 102 forwards with 1000+ minutes)
54% on the dot

Just a crazy complete player.

Toronto would be barely hanging on to a wild card spot if he had simply scored 2 goals instead of 3, in 4 of the Hattrick games he had.

he's been the offense of the team almost the entire season, alternating with Nylander earlier on.

He's also been their best defensive player by a significant margin all year.

The rest of the team has been filler more often than not.

It's kind of gross how important 1 player can be for a team.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Mack
Kuch
Matthews
Mcdavid
Crosby

Would be my hart ballot at the moment

 

[leafsfan5]

he’ll rival Ovie when it’s all said and done

It'll be tough to match Ovi's raw total due to his insane durability

Peak wise they are definitely comparable goal scorers and there are valid arguments for either side (though I lean AM34 for obvious reasons)

 

[WalterLundy]

For me scoring 3 less goals and 6 less points at records that nobody at the time had come within 14 goals and 63 points of is challenging to a serious degree
1.12 gpg and 2.62 ppg is narrowly close to 1.15 gpg and 2.69 ppg. But to your point yeah mario played enough games in 89 that he likely wouldnt have beat it. But could mario score 17 points in 4 games or 8 goals in 4 games? Hell yeah to both.

92-93 he has 104 in 40. 2.60 ppg. By this point he "only" had 39 goals in those 40 games for "only" 78 goals. So before the cancer he was on pace for 78 G 130 A 208P in an 80 game season. I agree with you that the goal record was not in the hot zone at that time. But peak lemieux healthier than he had ever been post 89 pacing for 208 in 80 or 218 in 84 games. Wayne was probably watching the stats intently lol. All in all wish we could have seen 80 games out of a healthy mario in 93. Just to see the numbers. It would have been very close.

To answer he was definitely healthy in 1989. Back issues came in 89-90. 1993 we know what happened but honestly 1989 was the best version of Mario. I know what I saw and considering his supporting cast it elevates it over 1993 for me. Visually in 1989 he was clearly superior to any of his other versions. The win streak and return from treatment like bobholly said isn’t what a normal healthy 1993 would have looked like.

1989 Lemieux had 169 points in 62 games (when his ppg peaked after 70% of season games played). 218 point and 80 goal pace at that time but he picked the goal pace up as point pace fell. He scored 20 goals in his last 14 to do it. This is higher than the 1993 first 40 game pace of 78 G and 208 in 80 games and it’s also higher than his actual pace from the full 60 game sample. Both records (as they are and were) were a possibility for him to break but it is hard to bet that he would have like others have said. He would have had a 40-50% chance in my mind.

Remember also that Gretzky in 1984 would have had the record that would have been out of reach for anyone in an 80 game season. Through 57 games he had 3 ppg (73 G, 98 A, 171 P). 80 game paces of 102 goals and 240 points. I think it’s safe to say that is out of reach. No pace of that large of a sample size comes within 20 pts of it.

 

[Regal]

Toronto would be barely hanging on to a wild card spot if he had simply scored 2 goals instead of 3, in 4 of the Hattrick games he had.

he's been the offense of the team almost the entire season, alternating with Nylander earlier on.

He's also been their best defensive player by a significant margin all year.

The rest of the team has been filler more often than not.

It's kind of gross how important 1 player can be for a team.

It’s kind of funny that as much as has been made about the average player improving in recent years, top players are still so important. Obviously this isn’t basketball levels, but I think sometimes people underrate how much true superstars mean to a team.