Red Sox/MLB Atlanta’s Chris Sale wins the National League Cy Young Award

[GatorMike]

"Another team with Soto at the top of its want list: the Boston Red Sox. They also have a meeting on the books with Soto this week, and like the Blue Jays, their aggressiveness extends into the starting pitching market as well."

"Teoscar Hernández, outfielder: Hernández's desire for a deal of at least three years was only helped by his great division series and World Series performances. The Dodgers are the favorites to bring him back where he thrived in 2024. Boston is in. So is Baltimore. And the Yankees want him if Soto doesn't come back...""

"Tyler O'Neill, outfielder: ...The Red Sox would like to bring him back, and he would fit with the Giants and Tigers as well."

"Max Fried, left-handed starter: He's exactly the sort of pitcher the Red Sox would like to anchor their rotation as their ascent back to contention begins. Toronto is in. San Francisco and Baltimore will be part of the mix, too. And don't forget the Dodgers, who are targeting at least one high-end starter."

"Nick Pivetta, right-handed starter: He almost certainly won't accept the qualifying offer to return to Boston; at least a three-year deal awaits Pivetta in free agency. Teams believe his stuff plays like a frontline starter, and whether it's the Cubs, Orioles, Braves or others, Pivetta is looking at one of the biggest deals of the winter for a starter."

 

[sarge88]

"Another team with Soto at the top of its want list: the Boston Red Sox. They also have a meeting on the books with Soto this week, and like the Blue Jays, their aggressiveness extends into the starting pitching market as well."

"Teoscar Hernández, outfielder: Hernández's desire for a deal of at least three years was only helped by his great division series and World Series performances. The Dodgers are the favorites to bring him back where he thrived in 2024. Boston is in. So is Baltimore. And the Yankees want him if Soto doesn't come back...""

"Tyler O'Neill, outfielder: ...The Red Sox would like to bring him back, and he would fit with the Giants and Tigers as well."

"Max Fried, left-handed starter: He's exactly the sort of pitcher the Red Sox would like to anchor their rotation as their ascent back to contention begins. Toronto is in. San Francisco and Baltimore will be part of the mix, too. And don't forget the Dodgers, who are targeting at least one high-end starter."

"Nick Pivetta, right-handed starter: He almost certainly won't accept the qualifying offer to return to Boston; at least a three-year deal awaits Pivetta in free agency. Teams believe his stuff plays like a frontline starter, and whether it's the Cubs, Orioles, Braves or others, Pivetta is looking at one of the biggest deals of the winter for a starter."

Not sure if I heard correctly -- but I thought I heard someone on MLB Network say something like 60 million x 10 - 12.

If the Sox don't go there -- I don't think I can blame them or anyone else.

 

[GatorMike]

Not sure if I heard correctly -- but I thought I heard someone on MLB Network say something like 60 million x 10 - 12.

If the Sox don't go there -- I don't think I can blame them or anyone else.

Yeah, I'm not exactly holding my breath.

Still, it's nice to see Passan mention them in connection with guys who are expected to be at the top of the market.

 

[sarge88]

Yeah, I'm not exactly holding my breath.

Still, it's nice to see Passan mention them in connection with guys who are expected to be at the top of the market.

I'll gladly accept a couple of upper-middle class signings -- -especially in the rotation and bull pen.

 

[Morris Wanchuk]

Here is my shred of optimism with Soto.

Watching the comeback, they made it a point to obsess about OBP and walks. Theo mentioned it, I think Henry mentioned it, others mentioned it.

Now you have the ability to land the modern king of OBP. Which as he ages will probably look better than Judge due to the plate knowledge that is already there.

 

[GatorMike]

Here is my shred of optimism with Soto.

Watching the comeback, they made it a point to obsess about OBP and walks. Theo mentioned it, I think Henry mentioned it, others mentioned it.

Now you have the ability to land the modern king of OBP. Which as he ages will probably look better than Judge due to the plate knowledge that is already there.

2004 was still the dawn of the Analytics Age in baseball. Theo, Billy Beane, and one or two other teams were obsessed with OBP.

These days, every team in the league (...that can afford it) wants players with high OBPs, because they all recognize that high OBPs have a direct correlation with runs scored. The Marlins never would have tried to ship a guy like Kevin Millar off to Japan in 2024 - there would be a dozen teams willing to trade for him these days instead of just one.

 

[Johnnyduke]

Yeah, I'm not exactly holding my breath.

Still, it's nice to see Passan mention them in connection with guys who are expected to be at the top of the market.

The Interest Kings never rest

 

[Johnnyduke]

Here is my shred of optimism with Soto.

Watching the comeback, they made it a point to obsess about OBP and walks. Theo mentioned it, I think Henry mentioned it, others mentioned it.

Now you have the ability to land the modern king of OBP. Which as he ages will probably look better than Judge due to the plate knowledge that is already there.

The only distinction I would make is when you are handing out a massive contract you need to look beyond OBP. OPS for example. I think the focus on solely OBP was to prop up unheralded players that were being overlooked.

 

[BradPark22]

He's neighbors with David Ortiz, bring him in for the sales pitch

 

[Johnnyduke]

He's neighbors with David Ortiz, bring him in for the sales pitch

And Kelly Olynyk

 

[FRyan4426]

Listening to the water-carriers like Tyler Miliken is infuriating. People are actually falling for the FSG PR machine again. I hate to be this negative but what have they actually done to make me think otherwise? It’s going to be the same old story. Hope everyone likes Mike Soroka and Paul DeJong

 

[RoccoF14]

Not sure if I heard correctly -- but I thought I heard someone on MLB Network say something like 60 million x 10 - 12.

If the Sox don't go there -- I don't think I can blame them or anyone else.

$50-60mil/yr for Soto is just stupid. He's a great player, but he's 1 player.

If you are in win-now mode and you think he's the missing piece to get you a championship, then maybe.....

 

[Johnnyduke]

If not the Red Sox I hope he signs with the Dodgers

 

[Mione134]

Listening to the water-carriers like Tyler Miliken is infuriating. People are actually falling for the FSG PR machine again. I hate to be this negative but what have they actually done to make me think otherwise? It’s going to be the same old story. Hope everyone likes Mike Soroka and Paul DeJong

We gotta have hope.


What else can we do? We know we're not gonna make a splash. But let the dream live.

 

[GatorMike]

Listening to the water-carriers like Tyler Miliken is infuriating. People are actually falling for the FSG PR machine again. I hate to be this negative but what have they actually done to make me think otherwise? It’s going to be the same old story. Hope everyone likes Mike Soroka and Paul DeJong

I think it's a long shot that Soto ends up in Boston.

That said, I also don't think Boras and Soto would waste their time giving the Sox a meeting if they weren't at least somewhat serious.

A couple of years ago, agents were texting Jared Carrabis and asking what Chaim Bloom's deal was. This year, agents are telling reports that they seem to be back in business and are connecting them to top of the market players.

Again, the proof is in the pudding, but the vibes seem a little different this year around. I guess we'll see if that means anything.

 

[McGarnagle]

$50-60mil/yr for Soto is just stupid. He's a great player, but he's 1 player.

If you are in win-now mode and you think he's the missing piece to get you a championship, then maybe.....

That's the new normal for star players. And as salaries will only continue to rise, you don't want to chase the trend and miss out on Soto, Ohtani, etc. and find yourself paying some mid player $40 million a year in two years.

 

[Morris Wanchuk]

The only distinction I would make is when you are handing out a massive contract you need to look beyond OBP. OPS for example. I think the focus on solely OBP was to prop up unheralded players that were being overlooked.

OBP - 19th overall (1st active)
SLG - 48th overall (4th active)
OPS - 23 Overall (3rd Active)

I like his OBP is better than the SLG because it probably means he will be more productive than judge as he ages.

 

[RoccoF14]

That's the new normal for star players. And as salaries will only continue to rise, you don't want to chase the trend and miss out on Soto, Ohtani, etc. and find yourself paying some mid player $40 million a year in two years.

Yeah, that's been the rationale for the last 30 years. I still don't agree with it. He's not going to have Judge hitting behind him anymore....

Soto is basically A-Rod back in 2000, when Texas signed him....

 

[McGarnagle]

OBP - 19th overall (1st active)
SLG - 48th overall (4th active)
OPS - 23 Overall (3rd Active)

I like his OBP is better than the SLG because it probably means he will be more productive than judge as he ages.

Playing half his games in Fenway would see his doubles go up too. Though he probably won't launch as many homers without the Yankee Stadium short porch.

I'm convinced that Soto at 25 years old is the best value for a free agent to ever hit the market. A young guy whose body of work projects to age gracefully. He'll get 13 or 14 years from a team, I'm sure. His defense isn't outstanding but you can stick him in Left Field at Fenway and get away with it, and he'd probably be able to convert to 1B as he ages with minimal problems.

I don't think the Sox will get him since the demand for him is so high, but it's a good sign that they're at least making a serious play.

Yeah, that's been the rationale for the last 30 years. I still don't agree with it.

Soto is basically A-Rod back in 2003, when Texas signed him....

A-Rod earned every cent of that contract.

 

[RoccoF14]

A-Rod earned every cent of that contract.

Absolutely, he did.

And Texas finished in last place every year that they had him......

 

[Morris Wanchuk]

Playing half his games in Fenway would see his doubles go up too. Though he probably won't launch as many homers without the Yankee Stadium short porch.

I'm convinced that Soto at 25 years old is the best value for a free agent to ever hit the market. A young guy whose body of work projects to age gracefully. He'll get 13 or 14 years from a team, I'm sure. His defense isn't outstanding but you can stick him in Left Field at Fenway and get away with it, and he'd probably be able to convert to 1B as he ages with minimal problems.

I don't think the Sox will get him since the demand for him is so high, but it's a good sign that they're at least making a serious play.

And that is my slight hope that John Henry can see that. Maybe not, but this is the guy to back the truck up for. You are getting him 3 years before Manny was available.

 

[Mr Cartmenez]

Listening to the water-carriers like Tyler Miliken is infuriating. People are actually falling for the FSG PR machine again. I hate to be this negative but what have they actually done to make me think otherwise? It’s going to be the same old story. Hope everyone likes Mike Soroka and Paul DeJong

It's the same crap year after year and fans are still falling for it. Now they are trying to look relevant again by going after Soto (!) when everyone knows they are in no universe will come close to outbidding the NY-teams and probably not even the Torontos of the league.

They are not going to spend nothing, but not nearly enough as fans are expecting and even worse: they will rather use prospects to improve the team rather than dollars. Hence the connection to Crochet. This has Red Sox written all over it, because he can be extended for less than what the top pitchers on the market are going to get.

They took the risk in giving Pivetta the QO. If they were really serious about Soto, that would lead you to believe they are willing to go deep in luxury tax territory. Pretty unlikely considering the recent past. So that makes me think Soto has got to be a smokescreen.

 

[RoccoF14]

It's the same crap year after year and fans are still falling for it. Now they are trying to look relevant again by going after Soto (!) when everyone knows they are in no universe will come close to outbidding the NY-teams and probably not even the Torontos of the league.

They are not going to spend nothing, but not nearly enough as fans are expecting and even worse: they will rather use prospects to improve the team rather than dollars. Hence the connection to Crochet. This has Red Sox written all over it, because he can be extended for less than what the top pitchers on the market are going to get.

They took the risk in giving Pivetta the QO. If they were really serious about Soto, that would lead you to believe they are willing to go deep in luxury tax territory. Pretty unlikely considering the recent past. So that makes me think Soto has got to be a smokescreen.

I don't think Boston is talking to Soto to lay some elaborate smokescreen. I think they're simply kicking the tires and the media and Scott Boras are running with the story as clickbait......As they should. Teams inquire about free agents all the time and don't end up signing them.

As for me. If I'm gonna back the truck up for anyone, its gonna be Corbin Burnes.

If you wanna spend an extra $50-60mil/yr in salary, you add Burnes and trade for Crochet. You take away the best pitcher from a division contender and you'll still have money left to add some bullpen depth or an extra bat. They've already got enough offense to contend in the AL, and if they don't, you can add at the deadline.

It would be funny as shit if they sent Giolito back to Chicago as part of a package for Crochet.....

 

[BigGoalBrad]

Soto might take a crazy long defered contract like Showtime.

If you need to go to 16 or 17 years to get him to sign and keep the contract down do it. Rest of the lineup after him and Devers are cost controlled and pitchers don't require long contracts anymore.

He can DH in his 40s its not like he'll stop being able to take walks.

Its not happening with this ownership even if they make a decent bid they'll do it knowing someone is offering higher.

Absolutely, he did.

And Texas finished in last place every year that they had him......

A Rod also agreed to give back a huge chunk of his salary to come to Boston.

If FSG had paid the guy you'd have had an Ortiz-Manny-Arod middle of the lineup.

 

[McGarnagle]

Soto might take a crazy long defered contract like Showtime.

If you need to go to 16 or 17 years to get him to sign and keep the contract down do it. Rest of the lineup after him and Devers are cost controlled and pitchers don't require long contracts anymore.

He can DH in his 40s its not like he'll stop being able to take walks.

Its not happening with this ownership even if they make a decent bid they'll do it knowing someone is offering higher.


A Rod also agreed to give back a huge chunk of his salary to come to Boston.

If FSG had paid the guy you'd have had an Ortiz-Manny-Arod middle of the lineup.

A contingent part of that A-Rod to Boston trade that the MLBPA rejected was that Manny would be flipped to Chicago for Magglio Ordoñez. But still, Ortiz-Rodriguez-Ordoñez in 2004 is a great heart of the lineup.

Edit: Looked it up and had it backwards - Manny and Jon Lester were to go to Texas for A-Rod and then Nomar gets dealt to the White Sox for Magglio and Brandon McCarthy.

In retrospect, hanging onto Lester paid big dividends (though McCarthy had a good long career himself). Sox wound up better off not making that deal in the end.