Axl Rhoadz
Binky distributor
- Apr 5, 2011
- 5,343
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If this board had its way, Adrian Kempe would have been traded 6 years ago.
Podcast (Audio) ATKM Director of Player Development, Glen Murray - AVAILABLE NOW
- Thread starter All The Kings Men
- Start date
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bland
Registered User
- Jul 1, 2004
- 8,261
- 12,647
Kempe is a double edged sword.
Did he hit his stride after years of patience, or could he have been putting up 30 goals two seasons ago if given the same opportunity without forced seasoning?
Did he hit his stride after years of patience, or could he have been putting up 30 goals two seasons ago if given the same opportunity without forced seasoning?
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
- Apr 6, 2006
- 32,583
- 11,777
I haven't listened yet, but I don't l think my opinion on how the Kings should deploy their youngsters this season will change much even after I listen. For example, Byfield should be getting quality ice time with a couple of high-end wingers to develop his offensive game.
Sol
Smile
- Jun 30, 2017
- 25,052
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Not even that, is it even safe to call him a success story ? He had a very good season this year but he was also playing for a contract.
A lot of good points made after my posts by KP and ATKM. However I simply cannot let this slide. I understand the regime has changed but the product at forward has not improved in the slightest.
Hopefully Jesse and others don’t think we’re bitching just To bitch. However the rebuild looks done and we don’t have ONE player from it that’s shown to be top 6?? That’s unheard of.
All The Kings Men
Registered User
- Apr 7, 2016
- 2,366
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I may not agree with you but I will defend to the death your right to bitch just for bitchings sake.
Sol
Smile
- Jun 30, 2017
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When it comes to development, especially through a rebuild, I frankly don't understand why you would treat your most prized assets with a regressive, negative mentality of essentially "prove to us you don't suck", instead of "we just spent a shitload of money on a fancy new car, let's make sure it runs the best it possibly can". I'm not for throwing prospects out there with no support, but you can provide adequate competition, support and also opportunity for your top talent if you're a rebuilding team. Instead, it almost feels like this team is treating them with, to borrow a philosophical term, a hermeneutics of suspicion.
Also veterans like Kopitar and Doughty should have near zero influence on this team's roster and prospect usage politics or should otherwise have been traded. This might be part of the problem why none of the high picks made by the Kings seem like they are emerging to take ownership of the team. For one it seems like the vets still drive this team's direction and for two nobody seems too interested in giving the keys of the franchise to the next wave. It's a really weird retool plan and I keep coming back to the same conclusion, I just don't think it's going to work out.
Also veterans like Kopitar and Doughty should have near zero influence on this team's roster and prospect usage politics or should otherwise have been traded. This might be part of the problem why none of the high picks made by the Kings seem like they are emerging to take ownership of the team. For one it seems like the vets still drive this team's direction and for two nobody seems too interested in giving the keys of the franchise to the next wave. It's a really weird retool plan and I keep coming back to the same conclusion, I just don't think it's going to work out.
Also, I love what the era of Brown brought to the Kings. But I think the excess mythologization of the period is unnecessary and in a way small-minded, it betrays a franchise that is still not used to success (on top of likely being a marketing gimmick for $$$, but thats a different point). The only thing sacred should be the logo itself, they really need to get out of this near sickly nostalgia for the 2012-2014 era roster and try to think about some new success and new faces instead of mythologizing the past.
King'sPawn
Enjoy the chaos
- Jul 1, 2003
- 23,206
- 24,126
It's a fair take, to a degree, to say the organization needs patience too. I DO think while Blake has been a GM since 2017, he has been an assistant in the org for longer. It's not like he came in as an outsider.
If the org needs time to sort out how it structures its developmental plan or sort out some kinks, I'm all for having some patience.
But I DO still think it's important to recognize that the development, particularly up front, is a work in progress. And it's not perfect. For everyone, I think it's fair to say that there are some qualities the org does well and some which are a work in progress.
If that type of honest discourse can occur without gatekeeping fandom, accusing others of irrational bitching, arguing in bad faith, or throwing out strawman statements (not saying you do this, Jesse; I just mean in general) then I hope the forum and community can become more constructive. Conversely, maybe the critics (myself included) can recognize the org may not have all the answers yet, and they are trying to improve internally.
But more importantly, I truly hope the organization itself is having a self-assessment of its approach. Having patience for an org is one thing. But having patience for an org who isn't self-critical (or thinks they have their developmental system sorted out properly) is a futile ask.
Hopefully the addition of Rheaume as a consultant, and bringing in someone from the outside, is an indication they are looking at additional avenues to prospect development.
All I'll say is I knew this was going to be a spicy one 
; and, in the end, Murray is a good guy, wishing him and his team the best, not sure I feel completely at ease, still very nervous, but glad that Turcotte sounds good and healthy and ready to show his stuff.
Thank you so much Jesse for being available and giving us a chance to participate and volunteer some questions. These have been great and I can't wait for the next segment!
; and, in the end, Murray is a good guy, wishing him and his team the best, not sure I feel completely at ease, still very nervous, but glad that Turcotte sounds good and healthy and ready to show his stuff. Thank you so much Jesse for being available and giving us a chance to participate and volunteer some questions. These have been great and I can't wait for the next segment!
All The Kings Men
Registered User
- Apr 7, 2016
- 2,366
- 5,629
I 100% do.
All the time.
WELLLLL THEN HAVE I GOT SOME GOOD NEWS FOR YOU!!!!
coming soon....
Manon Rhéaume - Stats, Contract, Salary & More
Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Manon Rhéaume, 1972-02-24 Québec, QC, CAN Canada. Most recently in the WWHL (W) with Minnesota Whitecaps. Complete player biography and stats.
www.eliteprospects.com
bland
Registered User
- Jul 1, 2004
- 8,261
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Clearly the developmental plan is being heavily influenced by analytics and their shifting evolution within the sport.
I still say its largely bunk, a modern fad that trys to strive towards the perfection-ication of young men instead of valuing the individual traits that make the players so attractive in the first place.
Not everybody needs to be competent in all areas.
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
Or he would have been shifted to play RW a long time ago rather than be forced to play center.
Axl Rhoadz
Binky distributor
- Apr 5, 2011
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Oh yah, I’m sure plenty of experts on this board had that figured out way before the org did.
All The Kings Men
Registered User
- Apr 7, 2016
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Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
I know I did. I'm certain others did as well. Most didn't think he was a good fit as a center.
2016 LA Kings Offseason GDT V: Free Agent Frenzy
I disagree with a Muzzin/trouba deal. I question if Trouba will be as good as Muzzin in the nest 3 years. Eventually I am sure he will be better, but for the majority of Muzzin's remaining contract length I believe muzzin will be the better defenseman and will be making less $$. It would help...
2017-18 Kings News/Rumors/Tidbits
lol there's nothing Montreal has I would want.Vilardi is going nowhere,much less for the garbage Montreal has.You should scroll to the bottom of that article to the comment section and read lol Off to read comments. Thi should be good
GDT: - 2019-20 GM#65 LA Kings vs New Jersey Devils @1:00pm 2/29/20
10/10 if the other team makes that play Kopitar just did it bounces off our D into the net.
GDT: - Offseason GDT II
Budaj is totally going to be the gaj backing up Quick. Quick is going to play 70 games next season. Sutter is going to ride him into the ground like he did with Kipper. Would of been nice to use Jones more often when we had a better back-up. Now Quick is going to have to play every game out...
Axl Rhoadz
Binky distributor
- Apr 5, 2011
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King'sPawn
Enjoy the chaos
- Jul 1, 2003
- 23,206
- 24,126
I will fully admit, unapologetically and without hesitation, I'm a major nerd. So, that's probably why I'm a big defender of analytics - when used properly.
I think, if used properly, analytics can be used to develop a player profile. Determining tendencies, strengths, style of play, etc. I just think, with it still fairly early in infancy, we're trying to find the right data from the right sources and compile it in a meaningful way. People are prone to biases; and can get distracted, be sleepy from a long drive between games, etc. It can also paint a picture on a larger scale of people, since someone would have to watch the same game multiple times, possibly, to evaluate multiple players.
I totally understand your dislike for them when people use cherrypicked or manipulated samples to fit a narrative. Or when they try to replace watching an actual game versus continued analysis.
As for the Kings, we've heard multiple times that they use analytics. I guess when it comes to prospects, it's not completely clear to what degree they are leveraging analytics. It sounds like it's an evolving process.
Regarding your final sentence, I agree. While yes, there should be a requisite level of competency in multiple aspects of the game, you need to have individuality within a team identity. Kaliyev wasn't drafted for his defensive prowess. His offensive instincts, shot, and underrated vision should be incorporated into the up-tempo play the Kings want to play.
But again, this is what I'm hoping the coaching and developmental staff is starting to realize.
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
I certainly put more thought into my posts than anything you have to say.
DoktorJeep
Luc and Rob are a waste of time and money.
Doesn’t take brains to get up every day and put in the work to be a troll.
Peter James Bond II
"Man, we were right there" - De-Luc-sional
- Mar 5, 2015
- 3,682
- 5,520
One thing that bugs me, is the situation for such a player as Samuel Fagemo.
Here's a 22 year old winger, with 2 years of SHL, 2 years of AHL and has
achieved success at these 2 PRO levels, (for 4 years) and also has 'leading goal scorer at the 2020
WJC' on his resume....yet going into camp, he has about a 3% chance of making the team;
no matter how good his camp is, honestly. That sucks.
Where will they slot him in at camp? Line 2? Line 3? Here's a young player that has
worked very hard, can skate (maybe no top end speed) shoot the puck about as good
as any King not named Kaliyev... score in many ways - wristshot, snapshot, slapshot and
finish in close. He competes well.
Perhaps you can say he needs an identity, but that's crap. Not every player does.
The thing that bugs me, he's the exact type of player (at this moment) that could
go to Carolina, Chicago, Arizona, Florida and make their team this year and he
would have success. Not saying that it would be a sure thing, but I would not be surprised.
This will never be remedied here, it seems. ATM, there are about 9 players trying to win 2 spots:
Lemieux, Grundstrom, JAD, Andersson, Vilardi, Kupari, Fagemo, Thomas, Turcotte ?
If any of these players don't 'wow' you with their performance after 2 games, they are sat and
another gets their 1-2 game chance. This sucks. For all.
It's like if Fagemo has a great camp and does well in the pre-season games and adds 3 goals...
it will probably be like "great job, good work on the boards. Great compete. Some nice goals
you had there....now, you'll get to play on the top line in Ontario and be on the #1 PP there.
Keep up the good work, your chance (3 game cup of coffee) will come"
Forever gone are the days of a 23 yr old undrafted college player, like Iafallo that walks in, does ok and
basically 'not fails' and yet plays every game from day one on line 1. A player like that can no longer come
here and even make the team as an 8 minute 4th liner. There's certainly no chance of that and good luck,
being one of 9 guys trying to get 2 spots.
Here's a 22 year old winger, with 2 years of SHL, 2 years of AHL and has
achieved success at these 2 PRO levels, (for 4 years) and also has 'leading goal scorer at the 2020
WJC' on his resume....yet going into camp, he has about a 3% chance of making the team;
no matter how good his camp is, honestly. That sucks.
Where will they slot him in at camp? Line 2? Line 3? Here's a young player that has
worked very hard, can skate (maybe no top end speed) shoot the puck about as good
as any King not named Kaliyev... score in many ways - wristshot, snapshot, slapshot and
finish in close. He competes well.
Perhaps you can say he needs an identity, but that's crap. Not every player does.
The thing that bugs me, he's the exact type of player (at this moment) that could
go to Carolina, Chicago, Arizona, Florida and make their team this year and he
would have success. Not saying that it would be a sure thing, but I would not be surprised.
This will never be remedied here, it seems. ATM, there are about 9 players trying to win 2 spots:
Lemieux, Grundstrom, JAD, Andersson, Vilardi, Kupari, Fagemo, Thomas, Turcotte ?
If any of these players don't 'wow' you with their performance after 2 games, they are sat and
another gets their 1-2 game chance. This sucks. For all.
It's like if Fagemo has a great camp and does well in the pre-season games and adds 3 goals...
it will probably be like "great job, good work on the boards. Great compete. Some nice goals
you had there....now, you'll get to play on the top line in Ontario and be on the #1 PP there.
Keep up the good work, your chance (3 game cup of coffee) will come"
Forever gone are the days of a 23 yr old undrafted college player, like Iafallo that walks in, does ok and
basically 'not fails' and yet plays every game from day one on line 1. A player like that can no longer come
here and even make the team as an 8 minute 4th liner. There's certainly no chance of that and good luck,
being one of 9 guys trying to get 2 spots.
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The thing with Fagemo is he just hasn't taken it to the next level. His points per game in the AHL is half that of Lias Andersson, he's right there with Alex Turcotte, who has slogged through injuries. Unless he's lights out during camp he's not going to make the roster simply because he's exempt.
I don't know if he's going to translate, he's nowhere near a ppg in the AHL which he absolutely needs to be. Vilardi can do that while looking totally bored, and it's not like he was lighting the NHL on fire. Same with Lias. I really like his compete though and his tools, I hope he can kick it up a gear. Who knows, he may pull a Durzi and just turn a corner out of nowhere.
I don't know if he's going to translate, he's nowhere near a ppg in the AHL which he absolutely needs to be. Vilardi can do that while looking totally bored, and it's not like he was lighting the NHL on fire. Same with Lias. I really like his compete though and his tools, I hope he can kick it up a gear. Who knows, he may pull a Durzi and just turn a corner out of nowhere.
BringTheReign
Registered User
I know others have mentioned this too, but can I just stop us all for a moment and remark on what a gift it is that Jesse gives us the opportunity to ask questions of folks in the Kings org?
Thanks for doing what you do, @All The Kings Men. Especially during the Dog days of no hockey in the summer.
Thanks for doing what you do, @All The Kings Men. Especially during the Dog days of no hockey in the summer.
Peter James Bond II
"Man, we were right there" - De-Luc-sional
- Mar 5, 2015
- 3,682
- 5,520
Stats in the AHL do not always correlate what said player will produce in the NHL.
This is Kempe's last year in the AHL:
| Ontario Reign | AHL | 46 | 12 | 8 | 20 | 44 | -7 | | | Playoffs | 5 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1 |
Herby
How could Blake have known?
Lias and Vilardi each have around 100 games of NHL experience and it just hasn’t clicked, at some point you just have to cut bait and see what others can do in those roles.
Fagemo has four years of pro experience, he is more of a balanced player than either one of those guys and he isn’t a kid anymore, he is at the age where many guys of his caliber begin their NHL careers.
The Kings can’t let the waiver status of players who are AAAA players at this point (Lias, Vilardi, JAD) decide roster decisions.
I’d like to see what Fagemo can do, the worst case is he falls flat (like the other 3 did) and he is sent back down. But he should be given a shot before the waiver questions hit with him next off-season.
