Athletic: Dubas Job on the Line this Season (contract expiring after this season)

[ULF_55]

Series against Montreal.

A complete no-show by Matthews and marner.

Maybe that wasn't just a bad series?

 

[Jojalu]

Most gms dream of having a matthews or marner level talent. Some barely have a Nylander level. Dubas could've traded any of them during the last 4 years or he could've signed them for less, which would've given us more room to add.

It's dubas' job to either trade them for the correct prices, or to keep them.

Dubas has chosen to keep them at all costs and that has not worked out at all.

Any gm would kill for the opportunity. Just because dubas has not had success does not mean the situation wasn't ideal. It just means dubas it not a good gm.

I agree that he should have pulled the trigger on somethin big this past offseason.

 

[ULF_55]

Full disclose. I'm a proponent of Keefe. He's the winningest coach in Leafs history and like him or not, he has done well.

But...

Coaches have an expiration date. I think Keefe has reached his. I said it last week that the coach was more likely to be canned than the GM. It's even mote likely now.

Keefe has gotten into 2 public spats with Marner now. In 10 games. That relationship could sour if this continues. But more importantly, Keefe failled when he benched Marner last night. It should have lasted the rest of the game, instead it wad what? One shift? Two?

I'm also not a fan of calling out lower tier players publicly when the stars aren't. Yes, everyone is failing. But your team lives and dies by it's stars.

The minor tinkering with the line-up is useless. Split up Marner and Matthews already. Quit f***ing around.

I expext to see him fired before the week's out. If not Dubas could end up out with him when Shanny realizes he's gonna do down along with both of them.

Do the Leafs have anyone capable of being interim coach?

Do they have any NHL experienced coaches helping Keefe?

 

[Dekes For Days]

After watching the 4 games of this road trip, do you still think this team is better than the one Dubas inherited?

It's very obvious that Dubas has improved the team throughout the years. We are off to a rough start this year, but I don't evaluate teams based on small sample sizes. We, like all teams, had stretches like this pre-Dubas as well.

I also don't think Colorado, Tampa, Pittsburgh, Minnesota, St Louis, etc. suddenly suck either.

 

[RobBrown4PM]

Dubas, and lots of other GM's f***ed up and overspent before COVID hit. Not necessarily their fault, but they should have been far more savvy working with the cap.

Where Dubas f***ed up specifically is with the Tavares and Marner contracts. Nylander and Matthews are both worth theirs, but the aforementioned two are MOST DEFINITLEY not.

100% Dubas got told by the bean counter tea leaf readers that the cap was going to go up to accommodate the Tavares and Marner contracts and still allow for some flexibility.

On top of these issues are the more nuanced things that can't be taken into any analytic excel sheet.

Heart, determination, work ethic, will, hunger to succeed, all play a factor in competitive sports. But none of these can be tracked and analyzed by any excel sheet. Plenty of teams have these players and general attitude, but the Leafs most certainly don't. Those players were tossed long ago. Some were complicated cases, others were justified, others were arbitrary.

 

[GQS]

I’ve never argued they should, but it would be nice to have them contribute every once in a while, not even goals, but tone. Great teams have that, we have lifeless passengers. Nobody is absolving there core pointing out the supporting cast stinks.

Leafs did have a pretty decent 3rd line in Kerfoot or Kampf with Engvall and Mikheyev or Kadri and whoever before them, but cap space and other reasons means they have to change things up. Who knows maybe the supporting cast can still get it together and get better, but they're not the main problem right now. Its our best players and defense that's the issue now.

 

[GrizzLeaf]

Do the Leafs have anyone capable of being interim coach?

Do they have any NHL experienced coaches helping Keefe?

I think the bigget question is, do the Leafs keep just doing the same over and over?

Coaches get replaced all the time. I truly believe tha Dubas will lose his job along with Keefe if he doesn't fire him soon.

Of course, the team could go 15-2 in November like last season and we'll all forget about this lol.... but I doubt it.

 

[GoonieFace]

Full disclose. I'm a proponent of Keefe. He's the winningest coach in Leafs history and like him or not, he has done well.

But...

Coaches have an expiration date. I think Keefe has reached his. I said it last week that the coach was more likely to be canned than the GM. It's even mote likely now.

Keefe has gotten into 2 public spats with Marner now. In 10 games. That relationship could sour if this continues. But more importantly, Keefe failled when he benched Marner last night. It should have lasted the rest of the game, instead it wad what? One shift? Two?

I'm also not a fan of calling out lower tier players publicly when the stars aren't. Yes, everyone is failing. But your team lives and dies by it's stars.

The minor tinkering with the line-up is useless. Split up Marner and Matthews already. Quit f***ing around.

I expext to see him fired before the week's out. If not Dubas could end up out with him when Shanny realizes he's gonna do down along with both of them.

Dubas is not firing Keefe. He is literally the only coach he has ever hired

 

[Mickey Marner]

Masai also fired the reigning coach of the year because he didn't meet his standards. Aside from the Maple Leafs, most organizations demand success and won't accept less. Raptors had been building a winning culture for years prior. They already has a conference finals appearance but kept running into an all time great player in LeBron James at the peak of his powers. The team was deep at every position, one of the best defensive groups of the decade, toughness, versatility, intangibles, etc etc The Raptors had the infrastructure, they were missing the top end talent. Maple Leafs have the top end talent but no infrastructure. Any qualified individual should be able to build the infrastructure while the top end talent is the challenge. Dubas was gifted the 20 year old future Hart winner, two elite wingers under the age of 22, then a prime age #1 D and #1 G and still made an absolute mess. It was handed to him on a silver platter and he screwed up almost everything from the day he was hired.

Bad enough so many people are blind and delusional about the Maple Leafs, now you're dragging the Raptors in to call them lucky in attempt to diminish their success? All because the Leafs are an embarrassment?

Raptors are 3rd or 4th most successful team of the decade. Most attribute that to having one of the best front offices in the league.

Maple Leafs are a clown show yet some people can't grasp that it starts at the top with the least qualified GM in the game... quite possibly ever.

The Raptors are what I wish the Leafs were.

 

[GoonieFace]

It's very obvious that Dubas has improved the team throughout the years. We are off to a rough start this year, but I don't evaluate teams based on small sample sizes. We, like all teams, had stretches like this pre-Dubas as well.

I also don't think Colorado, Tampa, Pittsburgh, Minnesota, St Louis, etc. suddenly suck either.

It's very obvious that Dubas has improved the team throughout the years. We are off to a rough start this year, but I don't evaluate teams based on small sample sizes. We, like all teams, had stretches like this pre-Dubas as well.

I also don't think Colorado, Tampa, Pittsburgh, Minnesota, St Louis, etc. suddenly suck either.

 

[ULF_55]

I think the bigget question is, do the Leafs keep just doing the same over and over?

Coaches get replaced all the time. I truly believe tha Dubas will lose his job along with Keefe if he doesn't fire him soon.

Of course, the team could go 15-2 in November like last season and we'll all forget about this lol.... but I doubt it.

Keefe will keep doing the same thing over and over again.
It got them a modern franchise record for points.
How do you argue against that?

Post season seems to be where they just don't have another gear.
Mostly, as Matthews goes the team goes.
Matthews should have potted more than 1 goal, and with that there are more assists to hand out.

 

[centipede2233]

The way this likely goes down….Dubas will be let go and Matthews will be traded after this season after failed contract extension talks.

This team is already at the rebuilding stage, but in denial.

Yes. It’s over. Dubas tried and failed miserably. It’s done, he made his bed and now has to lie in it. No choice but to trade matthews for what you can get.

It's very obvious that Dubas has improved the team throughout the years. We are off to a rough start this year, but I don't evaluate teams based on small sample sizes. We, like all teams, had stretches like this pre-Dubas as well.

I also don't think Colorado, Tampa, Pittsburgh, Minnesota, St Louis, etc. suddenly suck either.

all those teams have atleast a playoff round win in the last 18 years…..

 

[GrizzLeaf]

Dubas is not firing Keefe. He is literally the only coach he has ever hired

You're quite possibly right. Which will be Dubas' downfall.

 

[GoonieFace]

You're quite possibly right. Which will be Dubas' downfall.

He has already completely failed, they just need to rip the band aid off and refresh this front office and roster

 

[Trapper]

Dubas, and lots of other GM's f***ed up and overspent before COVID hit. Not necessarily their fault, but they should have been far more savvy working with the cap.

Where Dubas f***ed up specifically is with the Tavares and Marner contracts. Nylander and Matthews are both worth theirs, but the aforementioned two are MOST DEFINITLEY not.

100% Dubas got told by the bean counter tea leaf readers that the cap was going to go up to accommodate the Tavares and Marner contracts and still allow for some flexibility.

On top of these issues are the more nuanced things that can't be taken into any analytic excel sheet.

Heart, determination, work ethic, will, hunger to succeed, all play a factor in competitive sports. But none of these can be tracked and analyzed by any excel sheet. Plenty of teams have these players and general attitude, but the Leafs most certainly don't. Those players were tossed long ago. Some were complicated cases, others were justified, others were arbitrary.

Leafs are consistently a day late and a dollar short.
Dubas paid his guys big dollars before winning and now has to pay them again after Cup winners like MacKinnon (12+ million) just got paid.

 

[ULF_55]

You're quite possibly right. Which will be Dubas' downfall.

Who is available, other than Trotz?

 

[Dekes For Days]

all those teams have atleast a playoff round win in the last 18 years…..

It's funny how the argument always switches to "but past series wins!" when it's pointed out that whatever is being complained about in the moment isn't unique to the Leafs.

Did you know that Minnesota actually has 6 straight first round losses too (and actually failed to win a single game in the 2nd round when they made it the year before that)? I'm guessing not, because it's not endlessly repeated in response to literally everything.

 

[GrizzLeaf]

Keefe will keep doing the same thing over and over again.
It got them a modern franchise record for points.
How do you argue against that?

Post season seems to be where they just don't have another gear.
Mostly, as Matthews goes the team goes.
Matthews should have potted more than 1 goal, and with that there are more assists to hand out.

It did.

But like I previously stated. Coaches have an expiration date. Matthews, Marner and whomever else are all playing uninspired hockey. They risk a playoff spot if it continues long enough.

Post season is now the measuring stick, or was supposed to be. Dubas has no contract for next season. His future as a leaf's GM hinges on playoff success. And yet, the Leaf are struggling during the easy part.

Dubas wants to keep his job, I have to think. He knows regular season success wont be enough. And like you stated Keefe will just continue doing the same thing over and over.

Who is available, other than Trotz?

Does it matter? Keep Keefe and keep getting the same results isn't acceptable. Make a change if you want things to change.

 

[Trapper]

Who is available, other than Trotz?

I don’t see anyone that would fit the bill and the Dubas mindset.
Only guys like Julien and Vingneault are left at this point.
I think if this is the last dance, Dubas and Keefe will be given to the end of song.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Loyalty is overrated in a results oriented entertainment industry. Kyle treating these players and Keefe like they are his brothers in arms. Good GMs (and coaches) don't have that kind of loyalty.

 

[GrizzLeaf]

He has already completely failed, they just need to rip the band aid off and refresh this front office and roster

I mostly agree. But the roster isn't as flawed as it seems.

No need to burn it all down. Just bring in a coaching staff that will properly motivate the players.

 

[CDN24]

It's very obvious that Dubas has improved the team throughout the years. We are off to a rough start this year, but I don't evaluate teams based on small sample sizes. We, like all teams, had stretches like this pre-Dubas as well.

I also don't think Colorado, Tampa, Pittsburgh, Minnesota, St Louis, etc. suddenly suck either.

Colorado and Tampa are coming off a long playoff run so a slow start may be expected. That said, I think both teams are weaker than they were. Colorado lost their no 2 centre this off season. Missing their top line winger and not sure how the goaltending will play out. Tampa has burnt so much pick prospect capital to stay on top that they will inevitably fall back soon. But both teams have shown they can play under pressure- Leafs not so much.
Pittsburgh are getting old but that core knows how to win under pressure again- still would not call them a contender. Minnesota, after 3 games where they could not get a save are 4-1-1 in their last 6. The seem to be going in the right direction. St Louis has not been pretty but they are only 7 games in.

Ultimately its not about other teams- Its about the Leaf's and are they better than they were when Dubas took over? I don't think so, an aging D, suspect goaltending and a couple of entitled stars who don't handle pressure well

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

 

[Jojalu]

Leafs are consistently a day late and a dollar short.
Dubas paid his guys big dollars before winning and now has to pay them again after Cup winners like MacKinnon (12+ million) just got paid.

This is not just a Leafs thing. Teams pay players all the time before they win. In every sport.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Colorado and Tampa are coming off a long playoff run so a slow start may be expected. That said, I think both teams are weaker than they were. Colorado lost their no 2 centre this off season. Missing their top line winger and not sure how the goaltending will play out. Tampa has burnt so much pick prospect capital to stay on top that they will inevitably fall back soon. But both teams have shown they can play under pressure- Leafs not so much.
Pittsburgh are getting old but that core knows how to win under pressure again- still would not call them a contender. Minnesota, after 3 games where they could not get a save are 4-1-1 in their last 6. The seem to be going in the right direction. St Louis has not been pretty but they are only 7 games in.

Ultimately its not about other teams- Its about the Leaf's

All I see is you making excuses for other teams, while blasting the Leafs for going through the same thing.

It's understandable. You watch and have a much bigger emotional connection with the Leafs, and they are disappointing you. But it's important to take a step back and be objective sometimes.