ATD Chat Thread XX

[pappyline]

An injured McDavid just dragged the Oil to G7 without a healthy Drai and not much else against a very tough opponent and goaltender. How many players have done that? Along with his other bling and numbers... does that get him to the 10-spot now? 8 elite seasons and he's doing it again this year, of course.

I mean the Hawks cheated their way to a Cup in 1961, but nobody talks about that. Without that Hull and Mikita's resume gets thinner.

How so? First time I have heard this nonsense.

 

[tinyzombies]

How so? First time I have heard this nonsense.

Habs players all said so. Storey said he couldn't call everything or there wouldn't have been a game. Toronto played a tough style of hockey and the Habs didn't complain about that, but they did complain about Chicago in 61.

 

[tinyzombies]

Been looking for this book for a long time - finally stumbled on one for $5. Sportswriter Andy O’Brien went a long ways back with the Habs as you guys know. Not sure his reliability as a source.

 

[pappyline]

Habs players all said so. Storey said he couldn't call everything or there wouldn't have been a game. Toronto played a tough style of hockey and the Habs didn't complain about that, but they did complain about Chicago in 61.

Nonsense! So the Habs were finally beaten in the 1961 after 5 straight cups and Habs players whined about losing. Also get your facts straight. Storey wasn't the referee in 1961. He retired in 1959 after his choking causing a near riot in Chicago stadium in the Habs/Hawks series.

 

[tinyzombies]

Nonsense! So the Habs were finally beaten in the 1961 after 5 straight cups and Habs players whined about losing. Also get your facts straight. Storey wasn't the referee in 1961. He retired in 1959 after his choking causing a near riot in Chicago stadium in the Habs/Hawks series.

That’s what I read.

Neither side looked happy with the refs after game one, though Pilous seems to be poking fun at the Habs complaining. Those Habs were not known as a dirty team, so… I’m assuming he was delighted the games had swung that way. but I’ve read several accounts of Habs even in later years about the reffing in that series:




After game 6: “Enraged by the uneven performance of referee Dalton MacArthur, coach Hector “Toe” Blake punched him which earned him a fine of $2,000, a record at that time.” Source: La Presse, April 5, 1961, p.1, 44-45.

Seemingly unrelated but strange story involving MacArthur:



Also this tho:
"They wore us out," said a Montreal front-office man. "We were a battered team. But we were beaten by a better one."

Geoffrion and Harvey both playing with severe leg injuries as well. Lots of wear and tear after 8 straight Cup finals. The time had come.

 

[pappyline]

That’s what I read.

Neither side looked happy with the refs after game one, though Pilous seems to be poking fun at the Habs complaining. Those Habs were not known as a dirty team, so… I’m assuming he was delighted the games had swung that way. but I’ve read several accounts of Habs even in later years about the reffing in that series:

View attachment 955437View attachment 955438
View attachment 955439

After game 6: “Enraged by the uneven performance of referee Dalton MacArthur, coach Hector “Toe” Blake punched him which earned him a fine of $2,000, a record at that time.” Source: La Presse, April 5, 1961, p.1, 44-45.

Seemingly unrelated but strange story involving MacArthur:

View attachment 955442

Also this tho:
"They wore us out," said a Montreal front-office man. "We were a battered team. But we were beaten by a better one."

Geoffrion and Harvey both playing with severe leg injuries as well. Lots of wear and tear after 8 straight Cup finals. The time had come.

Why don't you admit your original statement was nonsense. You keep mixing up the 1959 and 1961 Habs/Hawks semifinals. I watched that 6th game in 1959 on TV. That was the game where Red Storey put away his whistle and missed calling a couple of flagrant Montreal Penalties. That was the last game he ever referred.

In 1961, Hawks beat the Habs in a hard fought series. There was no cheating involved.

 

[tinyzombies]

Why don't you admit your original statement was nonsense. You keep mixing up the 1959 and 1961 Habs/Hawks semifinals. I watched that 6th game in 1959 on TV. That was the game where Red Storey put away his whistle and missed calling a couple of flagrant Montreal Penalties. That was the last game he ever referred.

In 1961, Hawks beat the Habs in a hard fought series. There was no cheating involved.

It's not nonsense and it's not my belief, I wasn't there and there's no game film. I'm quoting what the Canadiens of the time said. They said the Hawks played dirty and were not called for it. There are other more indepth quoatations I've read. I know Geoffrion spoke about it at length. The Canadiens werre not a dirty team. Also, they didn't complain about the rough play from Toronto. My inference is they were telling what they felt to be the truth, and circumstances seem to back them up, but we'll never know for sure.

Also, I can imagine the Habs were heavy favorites, so there was a lot of money to be won. And the head referee was involved in a scandal that made the NY Times. So...

 

[pappyline]

It's not nonsense and it's not my belief, I wasn't there and there's no game film. I'm quoting what the Canadiens of the time said. They said the Hawks played dirty and were not called for it. There are other more indepth quoatations I've read. I know Geoffrion spoke about it at length. The Canadiens werre not a dirty team. Also, they didn't complain about the rough play from Toronto. My inference is they were telling what they felt to be the truth, and circumstances seem to back them up, but we'll never know for sure.

Also, I can imagine the Habs were heavy favorites, so there was a lot of money to be won. And the head referee was involved in a scandal that made the NY Times. So...

This is what you stated"I mean the Hawks cheated their way to a Cup in 1961, but nobody talks about that. Without that Hull and Mikita's resume gets thinner. . You stated it as if it was a fact. There is no evidence of any cheating and I was there.

 

[tinyzombies]

This is what you stated"I mean the Hawks cheated their way to a Cup in 1961, but nobody talks about that. Without that Hull and Mikita's resume gets thinner. . You stated it as if it was a fact. There is no evidence of any cheating and I was there.

It is a fact as far as I'm concerned. I'm not doing history here. But in the history books you have to account for doubt. Wait- you were THERE? Well, in that case I will defer to you and that Montreal executive who said the better team won (tho Geoffrion and Harvey both had significant leg injuries and Geoffrion the leading scorer missed the last two games- but that does still make Chicago the better team).

 

[Leaf Lander]

Good to see pappy and Jarek on the board
Happy New Years!!!

 

[BenchBrawl]

Sign-up thread is up for ATD2025:

ATD2025 Sign-Up Thread

Sign-up here.

forums.hfboards.com

 

[BenchBrawl]

Oof, been a long time since I posted here.

I'm surprised the ATD is still around. The last time I checked (couple years back), it seemed like there was a struggle to generate enough interest in it and you guys evolved to some different kinds of drafts.. but that was also a very brief glance. I might just be making stuff up.

Mostly came here to see how feelings have evolved on current generation players. McDavid at 16th! There wasn't as much controversy about that as I thought there would be, though I'm not surprised about VI leading the anti-McDavid train. His post about him breaking his leg has aged very, very poorly.. lol. Only a few months later, drags his team to game 7 of the Cup Final and a Conn Smythe.

I'm also very, very sad that RB's selection of Marty Walsh didn't generate 17 pages of fan fare. Boo!!!

Anyway, good to see the ATD is still around and kicking! Is there going to be an ATD 2025? I don't have the time that I used to have but it might be fun to pick it up again with a co-GM!

Wow, jarek returns! Good to see you back.

The sign-up thread is up, hope you play again. ATD2025 Sign-Up Thread

Lots of research has been done since 2017, with access to newspapers.com, we have uncovered a ton of material from the early eras.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Since the next edition of the ATD is right around the corner, I wanted to gauge how people would feel about allowing individual GMs to manage 2 teams again; last time it was voted on was early 2022

Work grinds almost to a complete halt for myself in Q1/early Q2 (fortunately the payroll does not! ) so I have the availability and certainly the interest in constructing multiple rosters

Zero interest on my part for handling multiple teams. This was a one off draft, and frankly, it sucked. I can't remember anybody's team from 2020, because there were too many and they weren't a strong enough association with their respective GM. I know TDMM won but I can't even remember how the lineup looked like. Yet I remember the core of almost all winners since 2011 on top of my head.

 

[Hitru]

I would also prefer 1 team per manager. Would like trading though.

 

[Professor What]

I would also prefer 1 team per manager. Would like trading though.

This is me too. Do we need to put up votes?

 

[tinyzombies]

Does trading cause extreme delays tho? Maybe open one trading period for a few rounds only? Otherwise I abstain.

 

[Hitru]

I assume we still have a clock as usual even with trading. Some quick veto system is probably needed, which can cause small delay though.

 

[jarek]

I assume we still have a clock as usual even with trading. Some quick veto system is probably needed, which can cause small delay though.

In the past, after a trade was announced, a few people typically would speak up pretty quickly if the trade was lopsided and that was usually enough to cancel it.

I would urge caution when it comes to allowing trades. First of all, they are a pain to manage with respect to updating the draft order, etc., and there's always the risk of a screw-up that ends up giving someone a pick they're not supposed to have (though I don't think this has ever happened).

I also think one thing that has happened in the past is a GM getting away with multiple borderline one-sided deals that were allowed to go through. If it's one, it probably doesn't affect much, but if you get several of these in your favour, it has a huge potential to snowball. We have been historically hesitant to veto any trades that weren't completely lopsided. There's no evidence (that I know of) to suggest anyone has won an ATD because of this, but it's another risk that exists.

Also, one thing that has DEFINITELY happened in the past is one GM holding up the entire draft because they're dangling their OTC pick. I know this has led to frustration in the past.

I think allowing trades with limits would probably be OK. Say, each team is allowed 2 or 3 trades for the whole draft.