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ATD 2017 Draft Thread II

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I'm just going to go ahead and draft Babe Pratt, D.

pratt_babe4.jpg


Reasons I was interested in Pratt:

- outstanding size: 6'3", 212 is like 6'6", 242 today - he was a beast in his time
- was inducted into the HHOF (NHLers who have been are getting rare)
- Good All-star record: 1, 3, 5, 7, 8, 9
- Won a Hart trophy (in a war year)
- It's worth noting that, although the lack of Bentleys, Conacher, Apps, Kraut line made it much easier for Pratt to win the Hart (and he almost certainly wouldn't have won it if they were in the NHL), only Jack Stewart among the missing defensemen may have been a threat to Pratt being top defenseman in 1944 and 3rd in 1945.
- I needed a passable #1 PP defenseman. With VsXD scores of 122, 119, 100, 100, 100, 86, 83, Pratt is among the three finest offensive defensemen available, and if this draft shakes out like last year, this would make him approximately an average top PP man.
- Defensively, Babe was a part of the "big 3" for 6 years in New York, a team that finished top-2 in team defense four times in those six years, and only had a top-2 goalie two of those years (according to voting)
- He then went on to be Toronto's best defenseman for four seasons as they finished 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 4th in team defense
- He was well known as a rough player and a willing shot blocker

He actually seemed to have it all - size, tools, offense, defense, toughness. Yet, he didn't seem to earn as much recognition for it all as he should have. Why is that? I hope to find out more, but the impressions that I get are:

1) He might have been a bit of a "no toolbox" kind of guy. He may have been lacking in hockey sense/smarts compared to the Coulters and Seiberts of the league
2) He was known as a party animal and very colorful character, which may have led to some game-to-game inconsistency.

Pratt completes our 2nd pairing with Johnson, a real Steady Eddie with all kinds of sense and smarts, so I think he looks good where he is. There were only 5 good #1 PP defensemen left, so I had to grab the one who I didn't see as a liability in any other respect.
 
seventieslord said:
Defensively, Babe was a part of the "big 3" for 6 years in New York, a team that finished top-2 in team defense four times in those six years, and only had a top-2 goalie two of those years (according to voting)
- He then went on to be Toronto's best defenseman for four seasons as they finished 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 4th in team defense
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Well, regarding his defense in Toronto: His coach said: Trying to get Pratt to play defense is like trying to get Apps to backcheck. Both were offensive-minded players, not exactly shutdown or defensively-minded.
 
Voight said:
Brad-McCrimmon-memorial-for-nhl-players-25150352-760-540.jpg

The Indiana Ice will select D Brad McCrimmon!

He should make a good fit with Howell.
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Might want to think about breaking up the Shore - Niedermayer tandem and going Shore - Howell / McCrimmon - Niedermayer. I think that's a much better mix of skills, and Howell is good enough defensively to play as a #2 next to Shore.

I like your top-4. Just think the mix of players suggests that splitting your top 2 is the best option.

edit: like the McCrimmon pick here, by the way. I tend to think Brad was often a bit overrated in past drafts, but he's good value here for sure.
 
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The Shadows are proud to welcome D/LW Doug Mohns and D Bob Goldham to Strathcona.

"Diesel" Doug's versatility and excellent offensive resume (2, 2, 3, 5) for a defenseman gives our club options at two key positions. His strength, grit and longevity will ensure he makes an impact no matter which position he plays.

Likewise, while a tad earlier than he has gone in the past, right-handed D are a rarity from here on out and Goldham provides Strathcona with a strong #3/4 who is adequate at moving the puck in transition while taking care of his own end. In particular, the "Golden Boy" will excel at blocking shots and helping Clint Benedict out in what is shaping up to be a tough division.

Next GM has been PMed!
 
ck26 said:
I've always wanted Diesel Doug on my team ... maybe one year ...
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His proficiency at two positions is certainly a major benefit. I would feel just as comfortable slotting him in as the third wheel on a Mohns-Petrov-Cournoyer second scoring line as I would making him my #3 D on a pairing with Goldham.
 
List pmed to bench brawl so pm him if my turn comes up. As it is I should be back around 12:30 PM EST
 
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I really like the Suter pick. I took a long look at him when I drafted Hitchman but wanted a pure defensive guy next to Cameron. He deserved to go earlier than last year and that's without considering what he's doing this season which I think will end up being a top 5 Norris finish.
 
Hawkey Town 18 said:
I really like the Suter pick. I took a long look at him when I drafted Hitchman but wanted a pure defensive guy next to Cameron. He deserved to go earlier than last year and that's without considering what he's doing this season which I think will end up being a top 5 Norris finish.
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Agreed on all points. I think he would have been a good pick 20+ picks ago.

Hitchman also brings more physicality than Suter as I understand it, something Cameron lacks. Like Suter, he's not soft, but really shouldn't be counted on for the bulk of his pair's physicality.
 
RYAN Suter was probably the guy I would've drafted instead of GARY Suter if I had drafted a more offense oriented dman instead of White.

Good pick up!
 
VanIslander said:
Well, regarding his defense in Toronto: His coach said: Trying to get Pratt to play defense is like trying to get Apps to backcheck. Both were offensive-minded players, not exactly shutdown or defensively-minded.
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:laugh: well ok then!

It’s interesting because from TDMM’s bio, he had a reputation as a rough player who’d play the man and block shots, so he had a very physical element to him. He sounds like one of those guys whose physicality may have overshadowed his strict defensive acumen, like….. well, we can’t mention them, but you know, guys from the last 30 years who weren’t actually bad in their own end when they were there, but were plagued more by occasional mental miscues, a puck error here or there, or taking risks rushing/going for the big hit.

I can think of at least 4 very obvious recent examples, one retired 19 years ago, one 15, one 6, and one’s active. Pratt seems like a much higher end version of that kind of player.

ck26 said:
I've always wanted Diesel Doug on my team ... maybe one year ...
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Me too. I seriously considered him but when I took Pratt I knew I was closing the door on Diesel  - because I would not need a top PP defenseman, I wouldn’t take a 5th D with only 5 forwards, and most importantly, he wouldn’t be around for my next pick anyway. Here is what I’d have brought up about him if I drafted him:

- He’s right in the same ballpark as Pratt as a peak offensive producer (defense VsX scores of 136, 107, 107, 98, 94, 77, 75) – and yes, this only includes years he was actually a defenseman, and in many of which he earned all-star and/or Norris votes to support that. He’s a legit #1 PP defenseman in this thing. (EDIT: A 1961-62 OPC card states that "two seasons ago he scored 20 goals playing left wing steadily". This was what would be his best offensive season as a defenseman. I remember being skeptical about it in the past, but I thought I verified it and I also thought that much was made of him scoring 20 as a defenseman, but I must have been wrong.. In my thread here where some of us go over which switch hitters played which positions in which seasons, Mohns is in fact listed as a LW by pnep for the 1959-60 season. This would make his VsXD 107, 107, 98, 94, 77, 75, 72, for a total of 630. He'd be the worst #1 PP defenseman in last year's draft, but slightly above average for a #2, and an extremely high end #3.)

- With a Norris record of 5-5-8-8-10-10-11 he lacks the high end all-around season of others taken higher, but has good consistency

- He was also 3rd twice in all-star voting as a LW, neither time significantly behind the 2nd team all-star.

- This voting record is backed up by 7 All-star games on merit, indicating he was a guy who was always known as a very good, if not great player

- With those offensive numbers and relative lack of Norris recognition you’d think that made him the “offensive specialist” of his time. But besides years where he was 7th and 9th in PPP, he did not rely on the PP to score his points to an abnormal degree.

- In fact, Mohns scored enough SHP in his career (11) that it’s safe to conclude he was a regular penalty killer at all stages of his career, except his first three as a winger: He had three in eight seasons from the defense with Boston, then five in five seasons as a two-way Chicago forward, then three more in his six seasons as a defensive expansion era defenseman.

- Mohns’ record as a post-expansion player is captured in numbers to some degree: in 1970, he was 2nd in TOI on Chicago in his first season as a D-man in 6 years – even ahead of Bill White. In 1972, he was a close #2 on a Minnesota squad that had a very strong top-4 and came 2nd in goals against. Then at age 41 in 1975, he was Washington’s #2 (but best all around) defenseman all season. There are three lower TOI seasons mixed in there, but on the whole, Mohns played about 21.8 minutes a game in those six years, and even including the worst team of all-time, 1974-75 Washington, that was achieved for above average teams as a whole. (EDIT - the 1971-72 OPC card mentions Minnesota put Mohns at forward when they acquired him during 1970-71, which has something to do with his lower TOI numbers in that season at least)

- Mohns killed 23% of his team’s penalties as a forward in 1968 and 1969, and was almost certainly used similarly pre-expansion for Chicago. This was 2nd unit minutes but for a very strong penalty killing team. He then killed 39% of penalties for Chicago, Minnesota, briefly Atlanta, and Washington as a 36-41 year old.

- Nothing seems to indicate that Mohns was deficient as a player, he had great tools – speed, shot, physicality - and was at least average sized. I’ve seen nothing that says he was bad defensively. His lack of high end voting finishes could be due to nothing more than the names that were ahead of him in the NHL at the time – Harvey, Kelly, Pilote, Horton, Pronovost, Brewer, Laperriere… and despite that, in two seasons he was just a few changed voters’ minds away from being a 2nd team all-star.

- Mohns seems like the definition of an all-around ATD utility man, who’s not really elite at anything but can be useful in a number of ways. Actually, his offensive production as a defenseman is borderline elite, to the point that he’s 1st PP unit caliber (edit: as the 2nd best point man, that is), but other than that, he’s just a guy who belongs but won’t carry a line, pairing or special teams unit. Furthermore, he played three separate roles, all well enough and for long enough that he’s passable, but not great, at any of them. This makes him sound like the perfect spare, but he’s just far too good to wait until round 20 to draft; he deserves a regular shift. In a 10-12 team draft he’d be ideal spare material.
 
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So this is what I'm pretty sure is correct for Mohns:

LW in 54, 55, 56
D in 57, 58, 59 (but HR says LW, in direct contradiction of his contemporary hockey cards)
LW in 60
D in 61, 62, 63, 64 (although HR has him as D/W in 62, 63, 64 so that may muddy it)
LW in 65, 66, 67, 68, 69 (although HR has him at D in 67, which is obviously wrong)
D in 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75

hockey cards published in the autumns following these seasons seem to support this.

In just his best 7 seasons in which we know he was a forward, Mohns has a VsX of 56, higher than a fair number of players we draft for 4th lines in this thing, and he's got the physicality and defensive ability to warrant a spot there, too. It's arguable Mohns legitimately had two ATD-level careers (though just barely). It's when you combine them both into one player that you get a guy worthy of going in the 240 range.
 
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