ATD 2017 Draft Thread II

[jarek]

For what it's worth, this all appears to be nitpicking a bit.I don't see any huge problem with Joliat - Thornton - Richard.Of course if I was in a series against jarek I would try to raise as much legitimate questions as I can, but at first glance this doesn't look line-breaking.

I don't like Thornton as an ATD #1 center, but that's the price to pay for picking him last on the line.I learned the hard way last year that standards for the center position are higher.If we gave an absolute value (out of 10) to players on two lines, and they looked like this:

LW - C - RW
9 - 5 - 9
9 - 9 - 5

The 9 - 9 - 5 line would be deemed more acceptable and superior.

That depends. I think it would be beneficial to not think about where each player ranks at their respective position and instead look at each in a vacuum. In the case of my first line, in terms of VsX7:

82.6 (doesn't include pre-NHL) - 95.6 - 102.4

Offensively, Thornton isn't a great deal worse than Richard. Obviously there is also playoff play to consider and the gap gets considerably larger in that case, but you can see what I mean by removing the rank from the player. Elmer Lach, for example, only has a VsX7 of 86.1 and I don't think anyone would have problems with him on a first line. It really comes down to the roles of each player and how effective they will be at it.

When you create an all-time list I can see how ranking players might be useful, but it's pretty much worthless when you start comparing teams to each other. THAT is where the real comparisons that truly matter will be made.

In summary, once a player is drafted, I don't believe his rank on an all time list matters anymore. At that point it's all about the specific role he's being asked to fill and how effective he will be at it compared to the other teams.

 

[BenchBrawl]

That depends. I think it would be beneficial to not think about where each player ranks at their respective position and instead look at each in a vacuum.

I tried to argue that last year for my 2nd line.It didn't really work.Maybe you can argue for it better than I did.

 

[jarek]

I tried to argue that last year for my 2nd line.It didn't really work.Maybe you can argue for it better than I did.

That's unfortunate. At least in our series last year I tried to remove rank out of the equation. I wish more people would do it.

 

[Namba 17]

How about a different approach?
If people use terms like "magnificent", "outstanding", etc., that's pretty high praise.

I think, you put too much meaning into one specific word. There is one quote in biography, where Joliat was called "magnificent" two-way player. There is no quote in biography, where Nighbor was called "magnificent" two-way player. It doesn't make Joliat better two-way player, than Nighbor

 

[Iceman]

Stockholm selects Emile "Butch" Bouchard, D

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Here's another pick that I went back and forth a lot on...I ultimately decided on this guy because I think he will give my lineup a lot of flexibility going forward. The Chicago Shamrocks select Pavel Datsyuk, C

 

[chaosrevolver]

This is not necessarily where I expected to take him but I find the attributes this guy brings are not so easy to find. I will select a winger that can compliment either one of my top two lines as the physical, two-way, corner digging presence that can feed teammates like he once so-often did for Jean Beliveau.

The Cobalt Silver Kings select LW - Bert Olmstead.

Stanley Cup Champion (1953, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1962)
Stanley Cup Finalist (1951, 1952, 1954, 1955, 1959, 1960)
Second All-Star Team (1953, 1956)
Played in NHL All Star Game (1953, 1956, 1957, 1959)
Inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame (1985)

Top-10 Scoring (4th, 5th, 7th, 9th)
Top-10 Assist (1st, 1st, 2nd, 9th)
Top-10 Penalty minutes (7th)
Top-10 Playoff Scoring (2nd, 5th, 6th 9th)
Top-10 Playoff Goalscoring (4th, 6th, 7th, 10th)
Top-10 Playoff Assist (1st, 1st, 5th, 6th)
Top-10 Playoff Penalty minutes (5th, 5th, 6th)
Calder Nomination (3rd)
Top-10 Hart Nomination (5th, 6th)

During his playing days Bert Olmstead had a reputation of being a ferocious, antagonistic checker. Today he would classified as a top power forward. "Dirty Bertie" wasn't a natural, and because of that he had to work harder than most players. He wasn't the most fluid skater around but he made up his lack of talent by an enormous will to win. He even got upset during exhibition games if there was a lack of commitment from his teammates.

Hall of Fame defenseman XXX XXXXXXX once said of Bert: "He's the best mucker in the league. By mucker I mean that he's the best man in the corners. He goes in there and digs the puck out for you."

 

[jarek]

I think, you put too much meaning into one specific word. There is one quote in biography, where Joliat was called "magnificent" two-way player. There is no quote in biography, where Nighbor was called "magnificent" two-way player. It doesn't make Joliat better two-way player, than Nighbor

It isn't about the specific words used. All of the following factors need to be taken into account:

1. How often was a player described in a specific way?
2. What type of words were used to describe that player?
3. How do points 1 and 2 compare to other players of his generation?

This is some of the criteria that can be used to determine how good a player was at a certain skill relative to his peers. Once again.. I don't think you will find many players in Joliat's era who have their defensive play described in the same way as his. Howie Morenz and Frank Nighbor are two of them.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Stockholm selects Emile "Butch" Bouchard, D

Considered him to play with Harvey (with whom he played in real life), but Weber's record and skillset were superior to Bouchard's.Bouchard also had the war years asterisk going against him.

That being said, Bouchard is still a pretty good defensive defenseman for this range.He also brings leadership to the table.

 

[Johnny Engine]

I'm going to take a guy who's draft position has fallen past where it should in the last few drafts. Dave Keon's meh playmaking scares some GMs off, but his two way play, speed and work ethic make him an excellent second line centre at this spot. I'll need some size in my top six somewhere down the road, but I'm not playing Keon with Bentley, so I don't think I've put either in an awkward spot.

 

[Dreakmur]

Orillia Terriers select Bill Cowley

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Orillia Terriers select Bill Cowley

Figured that's who jarek was talking about...with this only being your second forward you really needed a highly offensive player like Cowley, nice pick

 

[jarek]

Figured that's who jarek was talking about...with this only being your second forward you really needed a highly offensive player like Cowley, nice pick

I made the trade because I felt the drop off offensively from Cowley and Thornton to the next best guy was too steep in a draft this small for a 1st line center. I figured one of them would be around at 139, but I didn't want that guy to be Cowley.

 

[seventieslord]

Well, Cowley is exactly who I would’ve taken if Dreakmur didn’t. With only one elite offensive forward and Gilmour drafted to be an all-around complement to that star forward, I wanted to make sure my next guy was high-octane. It’s a good thing there’s a plan B out there, because no one else would really do it for me:

Evgeni Malkin, C.

Malkin is like the modern Cowley as far as resume is concerned, as he’s a one dimensional center who has a few really high end scoring finishes (1st, 1st, 2nd), all-stars (1st, 1st, 1st) as well as Hart finishes (1st, 2nd, 2nd) and a strong playoff record (1st, 5th, 6th, 8th in scoring) buoyed by one outstanding performance (1939, 2009). Not many players in history have a more impressive set of 5 playoff runs than Malkin’s 08, 09, 13, 14, 16 – it’s at worst, 3rd best of his generation. Malkin is one of only three centers in the league today who is capable of finishing in the top-10 in both/either goals and/or assists.

In addition to his high end scoring finishes, Malkin has been top-10 in points per game four other times: 8th in 2010, 2nd in 2014, 7th in 2015 and 4th in 2016. He missed nearly a season’s worth of games in those 4 years which killed his chances of placing higher than 15th in points. Still, 15th, 17th, 19th in points (to go along with his 18th as a rookie and the 3rd he’s currently working on) are nothing to scoff at, even if you want to treat those point totals and rankings as though they took 82 games to achieve instead of 60-69. Although Malkin is far behind Crosby (13%) as a per-game producer during his career, he’s 17% ahead of any other center during this time.

Downsides: 1) Injuries. He’s missed 17% of the games played during his career so he will need to be backed up with a strong scoring center. 2) Inconsistency. He has the reputation of being somewhat of a moody player who can be hot and cold. 3) Only brings scoring to the table. He’s not world renowned defensively, physically, or for any leadership/intangibles.

Malkin was 40th on the HOH centers list and was voted into that spot almost exactly three calendar years ago. Since then he has 203 more points in 191 games, 32 more playoff points in 42 games, a cup, completed a season where he was 2nd in PPG, two where he was 4th and 3rd, and is currently 3rd this season.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Malkin is a strong pick.Would have taken him at 148th without thinking twice.

 

[Iceman]

...but seventies, Malkin did not make the centennial top 100 list. He can't be any good.

 

[seventieslord]

...but seventies, Malkin did not make the centennial top 100 list. He can't be any good.

Is there anyone available who did?

...... oh wait. there's plenty

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

When I picked Datsyuk the fat that I was leaving both Cowley and Malkin on the board made me cringe a bit, but obviously I needed a two-way/strong defensive center and not a one-dimensional offensive guy. Both of those are great picks here and really needed on both of those rosters

 

[jarek]

I have Malkin a hair behind Cowley as an offense only player. Nice choice.

 

[JFA87-66-99]

Gotta say I love the last 3 picks with Keon, Malkin, and Cowley. I almost pick Dave Keon instead of Ronny Francis.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Great picks by Dreak and 70's to basically save their offence with Cowley and Malkin. Really like both the Lindsay-Cowley and Malkin-Lafleur duo's gentlemen.

 

[seventieslord]

Great picks by Dreak and 70's to basically save their offence with Cowley and Malkin. Really like both the Lindsay-Cowley and Malkin-Lafleur duo's gentlemen.

Gilmour, I think, is a better fit for Lafleur... Malkin will anchor a 2nd line.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Great picks by Dreak and 70's to basically save their offence with Cowley and Malkin. Really like both the Lindsay-Cowley and Malkin-Lafleur duo's gentlemen.

It'll be interesting to see what direction Dreak goes with his next pick

 

[jarek]

Gotta say I love the last 3 picks with Keon, Malkin, and Cowley. I almost pick Dave Keon instead of Ronny Francis.

Keon is such a weird one. He may end up being one of the worst offensive players on a second line, especially in a draft this size. It's hard to take him early because you want your top 2 lines to score, but Keon almost forces you to make any line with him on it an elite checking line.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Gilmour, I think, is a better fit for Lafleur... Malkin will anchor a 2nd line.

Definitely go with this