ATD 2013 Draft Draft Thread IV

[Dreakmur]

Nice. It coheres with what hockey minds of his era were saying about Bauer's playmaking from the wing.

That he wasn't a good enough playmaker to play centre?

 

[Leaf Lander]

I am at work for another hr ill pick then

 

[Leaf Lander]

Why doesn't he just check in? Does he need an invitation every time now? Argggh. Someone, indulge him and make the call (too expensive from here in Asia).

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i said i am at work till 1 am ast ... not home

 

[seventieslord]

There are multiple references praising his playmaking ability. He could very well have initiated many great scoring plays without getting a recorded assist back in the day when the 2nd assist wasn't recorded as much. .

After WW2, assists were recorded at a rate very close to the modern rate.

http://www.quanthockey.com/TS/TS_AssistsPerGoal.php

 

[VanIslander]

After WW2, assists were recorded at a rate very close to the modern rate.

http://www.quanthockey.com/TS/TS_AssistsPerGoal.php

And most of Bauer's career was before WWII.

 

[Leaf Lander]

picks

Randy Carlyle D

 

[VanIslander]

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[Nalyd Psycho]

And most of Bauer's career was before WWII.

2 out of 7 seasons is most? 2 before, 3 during, 2 after.

 

[VanIslander]

2 out of 7 seasons is most? 2 before, 3 during, 2 after.

Before NHLers joined the war effort. Geez.

His first half decade, the peak years of his career, being the five years prior to "the War Years" (WWII enlistment of NHLers a year after USA declaration), according to Ultimate Hockey.

In hockey terms, "the war years" does NOT include 1939, 1940, 1941.

 

[Leaf Lander]

who can take a list

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

Before NHLers joined the war effort. Geez.

His first half decade, the peak years of his career, being the five years prior to "the War Years" (WWII enlistment of NHLers a year after USA declaration), according to Ultimate Hockey.

In hockey terms, "the war years" does NOT include 1939, 1940, 1941.

I simply don't believe that the 39-40, 40-41 and 41-42 seasons were uneffected by the outbreak of war. In 39-40 only two players received votes for the Calder and the winner was Kilby MacDonald. Wikipedia lists only 4 players playing their first game that season. We may not have had NHLers leaving yet, but by gum, the NHL was feeling the effects of war. John Quilty won the next year.

 

[Leaf Lander]

I simply don't believe that the 39-40, 40-41 and 41-42 seasons were uneffected by the outbreak of war. In 39-40 only two players received votes for the Calder and the winner was Kilby MacDonald. Wikipedia lists only 4 players playing their first game that season. We may not have had NHLers leaving yet, but by gum, the NHL was feeling the effects of war. John Quilty won the next year.

thanks for taking my list

see u all monday when i get my new cell phne

 

[Dreakmur]

I simply don't believe that the 39-40, 40-41 and 41-42 seasons were uneffected by the outbreak of war. In 39-40 only two players received votes for the Calder and the winner was Kilby MacDonald. Wikipedia lists only 4 players playing their first game that season. We may not have had NHLers leaving yet, but by gum, the NHL was feeling the effects of war. John Quilty won the next year.

He was talking about the recording of assists being lower before the war. While he's correct, it doesn't show anything about Bauer. He was no more or less impacted by that than every other player.

 

[VanIslander]

He was talking about the recording of assists being lower before the war. While he's correct, it doesn't show anything about Bauer. He was no more or less impacted by that than every other player.

Yeah, that's the point. With less second assists recorded by the NHL in those years, he didn't put up gaudy assist numbers, but he still had more assists than goals most seasons and he still was 2nd among all NHL wingers in assists for the half decade, as per overpass' post, and first among all right wingers. The point stands: he could be a skilled playmaker that his contemporaries described him due to the lack of second assists in case he began and decided many rushes, passing off to the center or joining dman who then shot and some rebounded in, or else made a final pass.

This remains: dreakmur denies the truth of the words of Bauer's linemates, his coach and the media of the long distant past because Bauer did not have more than two top-10 seasons in assists. Then overpass cited Bauer's top-2 assist production among all NHL wingers over the five-year period prior to his WWII enlistment, number one among right wingers. Nothing said since is relevant to the issue.

 

[Dreakmur]

Yeah, that's the point. With less second assists recorded by the NHL in those years, he didn't put up gaudy assist numbers, but he still had more assists than goals most seasons and he still was 2nd among all NHL wingers in assists for the half decade, as per overpass' post, and first among all right wingers. The point stands: he could be a skilled playmaker that his contemporaries described him due to the lack of second assists in case he began and decided many rushes, passing off to the center or joining dman who then shot and some rebounded in, or else made a final pass.

First of all, he wasn't 2nd. He was tied for 3rd behind an undrafted LW and Toe Blake.

Second, as I said before, the lack of secondary assists impacts everyone else just as much as it does Bauer. Also, an undrafted RW that we know was not a playmaker was just 2 assists behind him.

If he got 20% more assists, so would everybody else, and his rank within his era would be unchanged.

This remains: dreakmur denies the truth of the words of Bauer's linemates, his coach and the media of the long distant past because Bauer did not have more than two top-10 seasons in assists. Then overpass cited Bauer's top-2 assist production among all NHL wingers over the five-year period prior to his WWII enlistment, number one among right wingers. Nothing said since is relevant to the issue.

I only deny opinions when they are proven false by statistics.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Bauer is a crafty playmaker for a winger, definitely. Looking back, I regret making that trade last year (Bauer and Cowley for Larionov and Starshinov).

 

[Dreakmur]

Bauer is a crafty playmaker for a winger, definitely. Looking back, I regret making that trade last year (Bauer and Cowley for Larionov and Starshinov).

If Bauer is a good playmaker, then there are a lot of good playmaking wingers. Off the top of my head, there are at least a dozen undrafted winger who are better playmakers than Bauer.

 

[VanIslander]

If Bauer is a good playmaker, then there are a lot of good playmaking wingers. Off the top of my head, there are at least a dozen undrafted winger who are better playmakers than Bauer.

Of course there are some, from different eras. He had more assists than any other right winger for half a decade, during an era with less assists recorded, and there is a plethora of quotes from his contemporaries praising his playmaking abilities.

If there is another right winger with such a resume, by all means draft him. I can think of some obvious modern playmaking wingers, though they scored relatively less goals and weren't 1st or 2nd team all-star selections several times, nor as integral to playoff success or HHOF material.

Bauer scored goals and engineered offensive plays from right wing. By all accounts he made smart decisions, knowing when and how to move the puck, himself on the rush or to linemates, on one of the greatest lines in hockey history.

 

[VanIslander]

Bobby Bauer bio updated:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=59846617&postcount=79

 

[Dreakmur]

Of course there are some, from different eras.

There are many. Some from other eras, some from his own era.

He had more assists than any other right winger for half a decade

How many winger played on a 1st line for all 5 of those seasons?

during an era with less assists recorded

That's meaningless....

there is a plethora of quotes from his contemporaries praising his playmaking abilities.

There are a couple quotes that go against the statistics.

 

[seventieslord]

Of course there are some, from different eras. He had more assists than any other right winger for half a decade,

Recchi did this... and quite easily, too. From 1991-1995, he had 296, 2nd place Fleury had 233. And then again, from 2000-2004, he was 2nd behind only Jagr, 19 behind, and 19 ahead of the next guy (Alfredsson). Dear lord, don't tell me Bauer was one of the guys you preferred to Recchi back when he was taken...

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Quotes from teammates are also meaningless, they're not impartial.

 

[Dreakmur]

Quotes from teammates are also meaningless, they're not impartial.

I wouldn't say meaningless, but they carry less weight than an impartial person.

 

[Hobnobs]

Quotes from teammates are also meaningless, they're not impartial.

They should be taken in the context of what they are but aslong as they dont "he was the best..." or "the greatest skater/shooter/checker I've seen" they usually contain a bit of truth, specially if you have a similiar quote from a opponent or an impartial observer.

 

[VanIslander]

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