ATD 2013 Draft Draft Thread IV

[VanIslander]

312 Jafar - Montreal Canadiens - ON THE CLOCK (5 hours, 48 minutes remaining)

313 DoMakc - HC Donbass
314. VanIslander & Hedberg - Hershey Bears
315 Bring Back Scuderi - Pittsburgh Athletic Club
316 MadArcand - Hartford Whalers
317 Leaf Lander - Toronto Maple Leafs
318 Velociraptor - Trail Smoke Eaters
319. papershoes & SchultzSquared - Kenora Thistles

 

[BubbaBoot]

While waiting for my last pick [Ralph Backstrom], I was going down my lists and trying to figure out who I wanted, who was available and who would probably get picked over the next round or so.....seems like a lot of my favorites are getting snagged.

- Bob Goldham
Didn't know anything about him but researching him quickly made me interested. Not only was his reputation deserved, he was also a natural right handed shot. Sturm was right, he was the BDA.

- Ed Westfall
One of the unheralded from the Bruins late 60's/early 70's teams. Not only was he a great defensive forward but he was also a very good special teams player with almost as many SH goals as he has PP goals.....hated it when the Bruins lost him to the Islanders, (where he became captain), in the expansion draft.

- Rob Ramage
I am intrigued about him. I like him as a player but during his prime he was on some sad sack teams. Always wondered what would've happened if he were on some of the better teams of the era during his prime, although he was a strong contributor on the Flames SC team.

- Ted Green
Terrible Teddy actually became a better defenseman after his head got caved in.....not being as rambunctious and impetuous as before he ended up playing better positionally. Probably jumped to the WHA at the best time possible for him.

- Jimmy Watson
He's a Watson, what more can you say? Major blue line stalwart for the Flyers SC years.

- Rick Tocchet
Was going to be my next pick if he somehow survived til then.....my kind of player.

- Dino Ciccarelli
A major league dick but in this format he would be a great 2nd line winger.

also
- Peter Bondra...a pure sniper.....and it's kind of funny, the current Bruins have a player that like Bondra's post lockout numbers, if averaged out would be very similar, as to this past lockout.

 

[overpass]

There was some discussion of Bobby Rousseau earlier, and the effect of linemates and PP/ES scoring on his numbers. I have the actual numbers.

1961-62 through 1963-64

Player | ESG | ESA | ESP | PPG | PPA | PPP
Henri Richard | 52 | 99 | 151 | 6 | 17 | 23
Ralph Backstrom | 54 | 69 | 123 | 3 | 3 | 6
Jean Beliveau | 36 | 86 | 122 | 28 | 36 | 64
Claude Provost | 56 | 61 | 117 | 9 | 15 | 24
Bobby Rousseau | 55 | 57 | 112 | 5 | 14 | 19
Gilles Tremblay | 61 | 46 | 107 | 16 | 16 | 32
Bill Hicke | 42 | 50 | 92 | 6 | 12 | 18
Bernie Geoffrion | 48 | 42 | 90 | 18 | 29 | 47

ES points shared with

Jean Beliveau |40
Gilles Tremblay |35
Henri Richard |32

Rousseau was a complementary top line player during these three seasons, scoring primarily at ES and receiving little PP time. Beliveau and Tremblay were his primary linemates in his first two full seasons, and then Richard and Tremblay in his third season.

1964-65 through 1967-68

Player | ESG | ESA | ESP | PPG | PPA | PPP
Henri Richard | 63 | 94 | 157 | 12 | 24 | 36
Ralph Backstrom | 69 | 85 | 154 | 11 | 16 | 27
Bobby Rousseau | 53 | 95 | 148 | 26 | 79 | 105
Claude Provost | 50 | 94 | 144 | 18 | 16 | 34
Jean Beliveau | 59 | 84 | 143 | 33 | 49 | 82
Gilles Tremblay | 35 | 61 | 111 | 19 | 13 | 32
John Ferguson | 50 | 61 | 111 | 12 | 16 | 28
Claude Larose | 50 | 56 | 106 | 6 | 3 | 9
Dick Duff | 53 | 42 | 95 | 14 | 21 | 35

ES points shared with

Dick Duff| 53
Jean Beliveau |35
Henri Richard |28
Gilles Tremblay |17
Jacques Lemaire|16

Rousseau played the point on the PP for Montreal during this time period, and was their leading PP scorer. At ES he was also among their top scorers, but not to the degree he was on the PP. He played with several linemates, Dick Duff being the most common.

1968-69 and 1969-70

Player | ESG | ESA | ESP | PPG | PPA | PPP
Yvan Cournoyer | 47 | 53 | 100 | 23 | 28 | 51
Bobby Rousseau | 46 | 50 | 96 | 7 | 21 | 28
Jacques Lemaire | 46 | 50 | 96 | 15 | 12 | 27
Henri Richard | 27 | 65 | 92 | 4 | 5 | 9
Jean Beliveau | 43 | 45 | 88 | 9 | 31 | 40
Ralph Backstrom | 29 | 48 | 77 | 3 | 3 | 6
John Ferguson | 39 | 32 | 71 | 9 | 3 | 12
Mickey Redmond | 31 | 37 | 68 | 5 | 5 | 10

ES points shared with

Henri Richard |25
Jacques Lemaire |19
Dick Duff |14
Yvan Cournoyer |12

J.C. Tremblay took a bigger role on the PP, reducing Rousseau's role there. Montreal had very balanced lines and roles for these seasons among their forwards and Rousseau scored as much as anyone.

1971-72 through 1973-74

Player | ESG | ESA | ESP | PPG | PPA | PPP
Jean Ratelle | 92 | 105 | 197 | 22 | 46 | 68
Vic Hadfield | 62 | 88 | 150 | 43 | 27 | 70
Walt Tkaczuk | 56 | 93 | 149 | 10 | 22 | 32
Bill Fairbairn | 50 | 95 | 145 | 11 | 15 | 26
Pete Stemkowski | 53 | 88 | 141 | 5 | 8 | 13
Brad Park | 41 | 96 | 137 | 16 | 45 | 61
Rod Gilbert | 39 | 73 | 112 | 22 | 25 | 47
Bruce MacGregor | 43 | 54 | 97 | 2 | 3 | 5
Ted Irvine | 46 | 49 | 95 | 3 | 3 | 6
Rod Seiling | 18 | 74 | 92 | 1 | 14 | 15
Steve Vickers | 57 | 35 | 92 | 7 | 10 | 17
Bobby Rousseau | 26 | 54 | 80 | 12 | 59 | 71

ES points shared with

Bruce MacGregor |17
Ted Irvine |16
Jean Ratelle| 11
Rod Gilbert |10
Brad Park |10
Dale Rolfe |10
Vic Hadfield |9
Bill Fairbairn |7

Rousseau was a total PP specialist in New York, leading the Rangers in PP points for his time there and finishing 12th in ES points. He played with many diffferent players at ES in a limited role, and manned the blueline with Brad Park on the PP.

 

[Sturminator]

Awesome breakdown, overpass. My long-held opinion of Rousseau is that he has always been a legit ATD scoringliner in terms of what he brought to the ice. It's nice to see him finally get a shot in that role here. I think he's actually a quite good scoringline "glue guy" (or complementary player) so long as his softness is not an issue, which I don't think it is on a line with Lindsay and Kennedy.

 

[markrander87]

There was some discussion of Bobby Rousseau earlier, and the effect of linemates and PP/ES scoring on his numbers. I have the actual numbers.

1961-62 through 1963-64

Player | ESG | ESA | ESP | PPG | PPA | PPP
Henri Richard | 52 | 99 | 151 | 6 | 17 | 23
Ralph Backstrom | 54 | 69 | 123 | 3 | 3 | 6
Jean Beliveau | 36 | 86 | 122 | 28 | 36 | 64
Claude Provost | 56 | 61 | 117 | 9 | 15 | 24
Bobby Rousseau | 55 | 57 | 112 | 5 | 14 | 19
Gilles Tremblay | 61 | 46 | 107 | 16 | 16 | 32
Bill Hicke | 42 | 50 | 92 | 6 | 12 | 18
Bernie Geoffrion | 48 | 42 | 90 | 18 | 29 | 47

ES points shared with

Jean Beliveau |40
Gilles Tremblay |35
Henri Richard |32

Rousseau was a complementary top line player during these three seasons, scoring primarily at ES and receiving little PP time. Beliveau and Tremblay were his primary linemates in his first two full seasons, and then Richard and Tremblay in his third season.

1964-65 through 1967-68

Player | ESG | ESA | ESP | PPG | PPA | PPP
Henri Richard | 63 | 94 | 157 | 12 | 24 | 36
Ralph Backstrom | 69 | 85 | 154 | 11 | 16 | 27
Bobby Rousseau | 53 | 95 | 148 | 26 | 79 | 105
Claude Provost | 50 | 94 | 144 | 18 | 16 | 34
Jean Beliveau | 59 | 84 | 143 | 33 | 49 | 82
Gilles Tremblay | 35 | 61 | 111 | 19 | 13 | 32
John Ferguson | 50 | 61 | 111 | 12 | 16 | 28
Claude Larose | 50 | 56 | 106 | 6 | 3 | 9
Dick Duff | 53 | 42 | 95 | 14 | 21 | 35

ES points shared with

Dick Duff| 53
Jean Beliveau |35
Henri Richard |28
Gilles Tremblay |17
Jacques Lemaire|16

Rousseau played the point on the PP for Montreal during this time period, and was their leading PP scorer. At ES he was also among their top scorers, but not to the degree he was on the PP. He played with several linemates, Dick Duff being the most common.

1968-69 and 1969-70

Player | ESG | ESA | ESP | PPG | PPA | PPP
Yvan Cournoyer | 47 | 53 | 100 | 23 | 28 | 51
Bobby Rousseau | 46 | 50 | 96 | 7 | 21 | 28
Jacques Lemaire | 46 | 50 | 96 | 15 | 12 | 27
Henri Richard | 27 | 65 | 92 | 4 | 5 | 9
Jean Beliveau | 43 | 45 | 88 | 9 | 31 | 40
Ralph Backstrom | 29 | 48 | 77 | 3 | 3 | 6
John Ferguson | 39 | 32 | 71 | 9 | 3 | 12
Mickey Redmond | 31 | 37 | 68 | 5 | 5 | 10

ES points shared with

Henri Richard |25
Jacques Lemaire |19
Dick Duff |14
Yvan Cournoyer |12

J.C. Tremblay took a bigger role on the PP, reducing Rousseau's role there. Montreal had very balanced lines and roles for these seasons among their forwards and Rousseau scored as much as anyone.

1971-72 through 1973-74

Player | ESG | ESA | ESP | PPG | PPA | PPP
Jean Ratelle | 92 | 105 | 197 | 22 | 46 | 68
Vic Hadfield | 62 | 88 | 150 | 43 | 27 | 70
Walt Tkaczuk | 56 | 93 | 149 | 10 | 22 | 32
Bill Fairbairn | 50 | 95 | 145 | 11 | 15 | 26
Pete Stemkowski | 53 | 88 | 141 | 5 | 8 | 13
Brad Park | 41 | 96 | 137 | 16 | 45 | 61
Rod Gilbert | 39 | 73 | 112 | 22 | 25 | 47
Bruce MacGregor | 43 | 54 | 97 | 2 | 3 | 5
Ted Irvine | 46 | 49 | 95 | 3 | 3 | 6
Rod Seiling | 18 | 74 | 92 | 1 | 14 | 15
Steve Vickers | 57 | 35 | 92 | 7 | 10 | 17
Bobby Rousseau | 26 | 54 | 80 | 12 | 59 | 71

ES points shared with

Bruce MacGregor |17
Ted Irvine |16
Jean Ratelle| 11
Rod Gilbert |10
Brad Park |10
Dale Rolfe |10
Vic Hadfield |9
Bill Fairbairn |7

Rousseau was a total PP specialist in New York, leading the Rangers in PP points for his time there and finishing 12th in ES points. He played with many diffferent players at ES in a limited role, and manned the blueline with Brad Park on the PP.

Excellent work Overpass, thank you for that breakdown.

Awesome breakdown, overpass. My long-held opinion of Rousseau is that he has always been a legit ATD scoringliner in terms of what he brought to the ice. It's nice to see him finally get a shot in that role here. I think he's actually a quite good scoringline "glue guy" (or complementary player) so long as his softness is not an issue, which I don't think it is on a line with Lindsay and Kennedy.

Agreed, I think GM's just become robotic in thinking which line a player can play on due to past draft positions and placements.

That was my mindset going in, I wanted stray away from the traditional way things are done.

 

[Hobnobs]

While waiting for my last pick [Ralph Backstrom], I was going down my lists and trying to figure out who I wanted, who was available and who would probably get picked over the next round or so.....seems like a lot of my favorites are getting snagged.

- Bob Goldham
Didn't know anything about him but researching him quickly made me interested. Not only was his reputation deserved, he was also a natural right handed shot. Sturm was right, he was the BDA.

- Ed Westfall
One of the unheralded from the Bruins late 60's/early 70's teams. Not only was he a great defensive forward but he was also a very good special teams player with almost as many SH goals as he has PP goals.....hated it when the Bruins lost him to the Islanders, (where he became captain), in the expansion draft.

- Rob Ramage
I am intrigued about him. I like him as a player but during his prime he was on some sad sack teams. Always wondered what would've happened if he were on some of the better teams of the era during his prime, although he was a strong contributor on the Flames SC team.

- Ted Green
Terrible Teddy actually became a better defenseman after his head got caved in.....not being as rambunctious and impetuous as before he ended up playing better positionally. Probably jumped to the WHA at the best time possible for him.

- Jimmy Watson
He's a Watson, what more can you say? Major blue line stalwart for the Flyers SC years.

- Rick Tocchet
Was going to be my next pick if he somehow survived til then.....my kind of player.

- Dino Ciccarelli
A major league dick but in this format he would be a great 2nd line winger.

also
- Peter Bondra...a pure sniper.....and it's kind of funny, the current Bruins have a player that like Bondra's post lockout numbers, if averaged out would be very similar, as to this past lockout.

I was looking at Tocchet and Dino. Decided that Dino was far and away better at basically everything except fighting.

 

[BillyShoe1721]

There was some discussion of Bobby Rousseau earlier, and the effect of linemates and PP/ES scoring on his numbers. I have the actual numbers.

You've got quite a few undrafted guys in there.

 

[Dreakmur]

- Ted Green
Terrible Teddy actually became a better defenseman after his head got caved in.....not being as rambunctious and impetuous as before he ended up playing better positionally. Probably jumped to the WHA at the best time possible for him.

His best years were definitely before his injury. All of his best voting results were before, and all of his best scoring seasons were before as well.

Green's offensive game is very, very under-rated. 2nd, 2nd, and 3rd in scoring among defensemen. Both 2nds came before Orr exploded, and the 3rd was behind Orr.

Either he was very poor defensively or his reputation severely reduced his voting results.

 

[BubbaBoot]

His best years were definitely before his injury. All of his best voting results were before, and all of his best scoring seasons were before as well.

Green's offensive game is very, very under-rated. 2nd, 2nd, and 3rd in scoring among defensemen. Both 2nds came before Orr exploded, and the 3rd was behind Orr.

Either he was very poor defensively or his reputation severely reduced his voting results.

No he was a good player before but tended to drop his gloves easily, (although I do like this in a player actually). Because of the plate in his head and the risk of injury he adapted to being more of a positional player, not taking as many chances or getting too rowdy, (he had only 4 fights after his injury).

He was a wee tad more cautious and took care of things in his own end more than he had before, things that didn't show up in the box scores or stat sheets.....and as a defenseman that's not such a bad thing, eh?

 

[Dreakmur]

No he was a good player before but tended to drop his gloves easily, (although I do like this in a player actually). Because of the plate in his head and the risk of injury he adapted to being more of a positional player, not taking as many chances or getting too rowdy, (he had only 4 fights after his injury).

He was a wee tad more cautious and took care of things in his own end more than he had before, things that didn't show up in the box scores or stat sheets.....and as a defenseman that's not such a bad thing, eh?

Nothing wrong with dropping your gloves. He was a much better offensive player before the injury, and he was also much more intimidating. Maybe he was a steadier defensively after the injury, but that doesn't mitigate the loss of offense and intimidation.

He was one of the best NHL defensemen for the 5 years before the injury. He played one decent season after the injury, and then he went to become a good, but not elite, defenseman in the WHA. Basically, Green's ATD resume was built from 1965-69. The rest is just "longevity", since he doesn't really add much to that previous resume.

 

[BubbaBoot]

Nothing wrong with dropping your gloves. He was a much better offensive player before the injury, and he was also much more intimidating. Maybe he was a steadier defensively after the injury, but that doesn't mitigate the loss of offense and intimidation.

He was one of the best NHL defensemen for the 5 years before the injury. He played one decent season after the injury, and then he went to become a good, but not elite, defenseman in the WHA. Basically, Green's ATD resume was built from 1965-69. The rest is just "longevity", since he doesn't really add much to that previous resume.

Oh I don't doubt the impact he had, let's just say he became a more well-rounded player and keep it at that. Believe me, you're talking to a fan of his.

Boyo do I remember those front-page newspaper headlines and photos though....created another woulda, coulda, shoulda scenario.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Montreal select Jeremy Roenick , C

Roenick vs2 in chronological order

1989-90: 51 (66)
1990-91: 82 (94) , 5th AST center
1991-92: 84 (103) , 4th AST center / Hart 6th / Selke 10th
1992-93: 72 (107)
1993-94: 89 (107) , 5th AST center
-------------------- lockout
1994-95: 49 (34)
1995-96: 56 (67)
1996-97: 63 (69)
1997-98: 62 (56)
1998-99: 67 (72)
1999-00: 83 (78) , 4th AST center
2000-01: 79 (76)
2001-02: 74 (67) , 5th AST center
2002-03: 57 (59)

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

His best years were definitely before his injury. All of his best voting results were before, and all of his best scoring seasons were before as well.

Green's offensive game is very, very under-rated. 2nd, 2nd, and 3rd in scoring among defensemen. Both 2nds came before Orr exploded, and the 3rd was behind Orr.

Either he was very poor defensively or his reputation severely reduced his voting results.

The 2nd in '68 may be before Orr became WTF good, but Orr was by far the best d-man in the league and Green was his partner. '65, I don't know. He did fall behind superior defensive defensemen like Horton, Laperriere, Brewer and Howell. So we can safely say he wasn't in their league defensively.

But the original comment was that he became a high end defensive defenceman latter in his career, which I would stand beside.

 

[Dreakmur]

The 2nd in '68 may be before Orr became WTF good, but Orr was by far the best d-man in the league and Green was his partner. '65, I don't know. He did fall behind superior defensive defensemen like Horton, Laperriere, Brewer and Howell. So we can safely say he wasn't in their league defensively.

I didn't say Green was better than Orr in 1968, I said he outscored him.

As far as falling behind those guys defensively, I agree. However, how does he rank with them as an overall defenseman?

But the original comment was that he became a high end defensive defenceman latter in his career, which I would stand beside.

The original comment said nothing about defensive play - it said he was "a better defenseman" before the injury.

 

[DoMakc]

HC Donbass completes its second pairing with Leo Charles Reise Jr.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

I didn't say Green was better than Orr in 1968, I said he outscored him.

As far as falling behind those guys defensively, I agree. However, how does he rank with them as an overall defenseman?

In over 20 less games.

Behind them as well.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Bubba, Goldham was a LH shot.

Awesome breakdown, overpass. My long-held opinion of Rousseau is that he has always been a legit ATD scoringliner in terms of what he brought to the ice. It's nice to see him finally get a shot in that role here. I think he's actually a quite good scoringline "glue guy" (or complementary player) so long as his softness is not an issue, which I don't think it is on a line with Lindsay and Kennedy.

I need to be more sold on Rousseau's defensive ability before thinking of him as a good glue guy, rather than a merely passable one.

Agreed, I think GM's just become robotic in thinking which line a player can play on due to past draft positions and placements.

That was my mindset going in, I wanted stray away from the traditional way things are done.

yeah, there are definitely guys pigeonholed into being third liners who are better offensively than a lot of the grinders often found on scoring lines in this thing.

I was looking at Tocchet and Dino. Decided that Dino was far and away better at basically everything except fighting.

Tocchet was much better in the corners too. Dino wasn't that much of a corners guy, more of a guy who would do whatever it takes in front of the net. Dino is much better offensively though.

 

[Dreakmur]

In over 20 less games.

Not Green's fault Orr couldn't stay healthy.

Behind them as well.

2nd in Points and the most physically intimidating. As I said, he'd have to be pretty bad defensively to justify the voting record, and I'm not sure he was even worse than average.

 

[Dreakmur]

Bubba, Goldham was a LH shot.

Actually, I'm pretty sure HR is wrong. I've been trying to figure it out, and based on the game action pictures I could find, Goldham is right-handed. If he's left-handed, so is Gordie Howe.... and Red Kelly is right-handed... and Terry Sawchuk wore his glove on right hand.

Edit:

Here's an example....



Goalie is Sawchuk, who's wearing the glove on the correct hand, so we know the picture isn't reversed.

#2 Goldham is right-handed in the picture.

#11 is a guy we all know is left-handed, and #19 is a guy we all know is right-handed. They are both undrafted, so PM me if you want to know who they are.

 

[Sturminator]

Roenick vs2 in chronological order

1989-90: 51 (66)
1990-91: 82 (94) , 5th AST center
1991-92: 84 (103) , 4th AST center / Hart 6th / Selke 10th
1992-93: 72 (107)
1993-94: 89 (107) , 5th AST center
-------------------- lockout
1994-95: 49 (34)
1995-96: 56 (67)
1996-97: 63 (69)
1997-98: 62 (56)
1998-99: 67 (72)
1999-00: 83 (78) , 4th AST center
2000-01: 79 (76)
2001-02: 74 (67) , 5th AST center
2002-03: 57 (59)

I think Roenick is a good pick here, and has been underrated for a while in the ATD. The bolded above is pretty much the reason some people have underrated him. He had a wierd fall-off in his play around the time of the lockout, but recovered his game and for a few years there in Phoenix and Philly was just as good as he'd ever been in Chicago, but it doesn't look that way if you just look at his raw points because his late-peak resurgence occured during the dead puck era, and nobody paid attention to the Coyotes at the time. I think JR is on the Keats/Dunderdale level of scoringline centers. Definitely a better all-around player than guys like Federko and Nieuwendyk who always get taken before him.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

Not Green's fault Orr couldn't stay healthy.

No one is saying he is, but the voters agreed that a half season of Orr was greater than every other defenceman's whole season. Orr's reidiculous greatness shouldn't be held against Green.

 

[Hobnobs]

Tocchet was much better in the corners too. Dino wasn't that much of a corners guy, more of a guy who would do whatever it takes in front of the net. Dino is much better offensively though.

Dino could be tenacious in the corners, his problem was his stature but u are right Tocchet has an advatage at corner digging.

 

[markrander87]

I need to be more sold on Rousseau's defensive ability before thinking of him as a good glue guy, rather than a merely passable one.

.

Pretty telling article, showing how Rousseau was used (while playing for the Rangers to shadow Cournoyer.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...pg=7294,540749&dq=bobby+rousseau+shadow&hl=en


Rousseau excels defensively, among other great praises from Toe Blake (who seemed to love him)

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AIBAJ&pg=4905,4191108&dq=bobby+rousseau&hl=en

Again being praised by Blake..

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...719606&dq=bobby+rousseau+defensive+play&hl=en

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

2nd in Points and the most physically intimidating. As I said, he'd have to be pretty bad defensively to justify the voting record, and I'm not sure he was even worse than average.

Well, we do have proof that Green rarely killed penalties, right? So there is that.

Pretty telling article, showing how Rousseau was used (while playing for the Rangers to shadow Cournoyer.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...pg=7294,540749&dq=bobby+rousseau+shadow&hl=en


Rousseau excels defensively, among other great praises from Toe Blake (who seemed to love him)

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AIBAJ&pg=4905,4191108&dq=bobby+rousseau&hl=en

Again being praised by Blake..

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...719606&dq=bobby+rousseau+defensive+play&hl=en

Seems like Rousseau and Beliveau thought offense-first when they were linemates (which makes sense), but both were capable of playing well defensively when the situation warranted it.

The Cournoyer one is interesting - I never knew that Rousseau was a speedster before, and it looks like he was used against Cournoyer because he was the only guy they had fast enough to keep up.

Rousseau seems like a very versatile player who could think offense or defense first depending on what the coach asked. Too bad he was so small. The "he had freakishly large wrists, which gave him a really hard shot" thing is interesting and would explain why he often played point on the powerplay.

 

[BillyShoe1721]

There was some discussion of Bobby Rousseau earlier, and the effect of linemates and PP/ES scoring on his numbers. I have the actual numbers.

1961-62 through 1963-64

Player | ESG | ESA | ESP | PPG | PPA | PPP|Games Played|ESPPG
Henri Richard | 52 | 99 | 151 | 6 | 17 | 23|187|.807
Ralph Backstrom | 54 | 69 | 123 | 3 | 3 | 6|206|.597
Jean Beliveau | 36 | 86 | 122 | 28 | 36 | 64|180|.678
Claude Provost | 56 | 61 | 117 | 9 | 15 | 24|205|.570
Bobby Rousseau | 55 | 57 | 112 | 5 | 14 | 19|202|.55
Gilles Tremblay | 61 | 46 | 107 | 16 | 16 | 32|191|.56
Bill Hicke | 42 | 50 | 92 | 6 | 12 | 18|188|.489
Bernie Geoffrion | 48 | 42 | 90 | 18 | 29 | 47|168|.535

ES points shared with

Jean Beliveau |40
Gilles Tremblay |35
Henri Richard |32

Rousseau was a complementary top line player during these three seasons, scoring primarily at ES and receiving little PP time. Beliveau and Tremblay were his primary linemates in his first two full seasons, and then Richard and Tremblay in his third season.

1964-65 through 1967-68

Player | ESG | ESA | ESP | PPG | PPA | PPP|Games Played|ESPPG
Henri Richard | 63 | 94 | 157 | 12 | 24 | 36|234|.671
Ralph Backstrom | 69 | 85 | 154 | 11 | 16 | 27|276|.558
Bobby Rousseau | 53 | 95 | 148 | 26 | 79 | 105|278|.532
Claude Provost | 50 | 94 | 144 | 18 | 16 | 34|277|.520
Jean Beliveau | 59 | 84 | 143 | 33 | 49 | 82|237|.603
Gilles Tremblay | 35 | 61 | 111 | 19 | 13 | 32|229|.485
John Ferguson | 50 | 61 | 111 | 12 | 16 | 28|262|.424
Claude Larose | 50 | 56 | 106 | 6 | 3 | 9|243|.382
Dick Duff | 53 | 42 | 95 | 14 | 21 | 35|249

ES points shared with

Dick Duff| 53
Jean Beliveau |35
Henri Richard |28
Gilles Tremblay |17
Jacques Lemaire|16

Rousseau played the point on the PP for Montreal during this time period, and was their leading PP scorer. At ES he was also among their top scorers, but not to the degree he was on the PP. He played with several linemates, Dick Duff being the most common.

1968-69 and 1969-70

Player | ESG | ESA | ESP | PPG | PPA | PPP|Games Played|ESPPG
Yvan Cournoyer | 47 | 53 | 100 | 23 | 28 | 51|148|.676
Bobby Rousseau | 46 | 50 | 96 | 7 | 21 | 28|148|.648
Jacques Lemaire | 46 | 50 | 96 | 15 | 12 | 27|144|.667
Henri Richard | 27 | 65 | 92 | 4 | 5 | 9|126|.730
Jean Beliveau | 43 | 45 | 88 | 9 | 31 | 40|132|.667
Ralph Backstrom | 29 | 48 | 77 | 3 | 3 | 6|144|.535
John Ferguson | 39 | 32 | 71 | 9 | 3 | 12|119|.60
Mickey Redmond | 31 | 37 | 68 | 5 | 5 | 10|140|.486

ES points shared with

Henri Richard |25
Jacques Lemaire |19
Dick Duff |14
Yvan Cournoyer |12

J.C. Tremblay took a bigger role on the PP, reducing Rousseau's role there. Montreal had very balanced lines and roles for these seasons among their forwards and Rousseau scored as much as anyone.

1971-72 through 1973-74

Player | ESG | ESA | ESP | PPG | PPA | PPP|Games Played|ESPPG
Jean Ratelle | 92 | 105 | 197 | 22 | 46 | 68|209|.943
Vic Hadfield | 62 | 88 | 150 | 43 | 27 | 70|218|.689
Walt Tkaczuk | 56 | 93 | 149 | 10 | 22 | 32|223|.668
Bill Fairbairn | 50 | 95 | 145 | 11 | 15 | 26|234|.620
Pete Stemkowski | 53 | 88 | 141 | 5 | 8 | 13|215|.656
Brad Park | 41 | 96 | 137 | 16 | 45 | 61|205|.668
Rod Gilbert | 39 | 73 | 112 | 22 | 25 | 47|224|.500
Bruce MacGregor | 43 | 54 | 97 | 2 | 3 | 5|193|.502
Ted Irvine | 46 | 49 | 95 | 3 | 3 | 6|206|.461
Rod Seiling | 18 | 74 | 92 | 1 | 14 | 15|218|.422
Steve Vickers | 57 | 35 | 92 | 7 | 10 | 17|136|.676
Bobby Rousseau | 26 | 54 | 80 | 12 | 59 | 71|228|.351

ES points shared with

Bruce MacGregor |17
Ted Irvine |16
Jean Ratelle| 11
Rod Gilbert |10
Brad Park |10
Dale Rolfe |10
Vic Hadfield |9
Bill Fairbairn |7

Rousseau was a total PP specialist in New York, leading the Rangers in PP points for his time there and finishing 12th in ES points. He played with many different players at ES in a limited role, and manned the blueline with Brad Park on the PP.

Great work here overpass. But to get a more accurate picture, I've added a column of games played in each table to put everything in perspective.

Edit: I've also added ESPPG