ATD 2011 Draft Thread II

[MadArcand]

Borje Salming: Great EV numbers - but I suspect he was playing easier minutes. Consider who his D-partner was - an offensive defenceman. And why did his plus-minus fall of the board in the mid-80s if not suddenly playing tougher minutes? Still, very good puck mover and outscorer at ES. A step down on both special teams - maybe not his fault his team's PK was bad, but maybe he doesn't play as much on a better PK.

He spent most of his career on Ballard Leafs, an abomination of a franchise. He still had only three minus seasons - for .425, .381 and .300 (last overall) Leafs teams.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

he BETTER not have him ahead of Cook!

I have Cook roughly equal to Jagr and ahead of Lafleur and Bossy... I have Makarov roughly equal to Lafleur and ahead of Bossy...

 

[Reds4Life]

He could beat the **** out of Makarov.... that's not in question, is it?

I'd bet my money on Makarov in a fight.

 

[Sturminator]

That's where intangibles really come into play for me. Out of all my searching and scraping, I found absolutely nothing on Bathgate other than he was a great scorer. I couldn't even confirm if he was really fast or not.

Have you watched his Legends video? Andy smokes Gadsby on a breakaway. Yeah, Gadsby is getting old by that point and yes, he has to take a diagonal route to the puck carrier, but Bathgate's first couple of strides left the defenseman with zero chance to catch him. Keep in mind, also, that this was towards the end of Andy's prime.

Makarov was blazing fast, and he seemed to be respectable defensively (TDMM says Makarov was used on the PK a lot). Makarov is the kind of player who elevated his linemates to ridiculous heights because of how gifted he was offensively and what he did with those gifts. I don't think Bathgate really did that on quite the same level. Makarov basically created the K in the KLM line, as evidenced by his colossal failure when not playing with Makarov.

No, steroids created that player, who was actually quite good on his own merits during the period when he was shooting up with the East German women's swimming team. Many people considered him more dominant than Makarov in international competition during the 80's, if the truth be told. It would be an exaggeration to say that Sergei was carrying that line. As for Makarov's defensive play...I watched both he and his former center in San Jose quite a lot (lived in the Bay Area at the time), and I saw it in the center, but nothing in Makarov. Now, maybe it was the coaching or the scheme or whatever, but I watched a few good years of the guy, and he wasn't doing much in the way of backchecking.

Great player, but I can't agree that he's on Bathgate's (or Kharlamov's) level.

 

[EagleBelfour]

Most people agree that Makarov was at least a good selection at this point, but the opinion on his greatness his greatly different from one another. From 30-to-80. Crazy.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

Dickie Moore

6 time Stanley Cup Champion
2 time Art Ross Winner
2 time 1st team All-Star
1 time 2nd team All-Star​

… a six-time Stanley Cup winner and one of the greatest two-way left wingers in the history of the game… He was tough, rambunctious and drove the net like a demon. Had the Selke Trophy been I existence when he played, Moore likely would have won an armful of them.

On the ice, Dickie Moore was something else: a tiger in the corners of the rink where the timid fear to tread; a radar-like passer who also enjoyed superb accuracy when he took a shot on goal; and, more than anything, a man of leonine courage, as much as anyone who ever played in the NHL.

Dickie’s talent was all-inclusive. He shot hard and accurately, stickhandled and passes well, played wight or left wing, worked easily with all players, and at 5’11â€, 170 pounds, played rugged and smart defense.

When Maurice Richard and Doug Harvey faded, I expected Dickie to take over as leader of the team, and he did.

Dickie was a fighter, a real worker. I remember seeing him in junior hockey against Jean Beliveau’s team, the Quebec Citadelles. Just about the whole team went after Dickie but he wasn’t afraid in the least. He fought everybody on the ice and held his own. It was the same way with him in the NHL, except he had to fight injuries as well.

Moore deserved it (the scoring title). He’s the most valuable player on the Canadiens.

An excellent stickhandler and skater with a hard, accurate shot, Moore became one of the NHL’s top offensive stars. He was also handy with his elbows and fists, and his aggressive play earned him the nickname Digger.

Since time began, players have tried to play the game without sweating, and it doesn’t work that way, and he was totally prepared to sacrifice everything. He sacrificed his body.

He played hurt. He played through a lot of injuries and never talked about it – just went out and played. That’s a perfect example of one of the leaders in our organization, and on our team. That’s one of the reasons we won so many Stanley Cups. Everybody came to play every night, and Dickie was one of the ring-leaders on our club.

Dickie Moore was the most under-rated great player that I ever saw. He took more abuse and contributed more than any player. He was on a team that had glowing characters, like Rocket Richard, the Pocket Rocket, Bernie “Boom Boom†Geoffrion, Jacques Plante, Doug Harvey, and all these guys were flamboyant in various ways. Dickie Moore just went out there – he played very tough, like Ted Lindsay played tough, but he scored.

He was quite willing to play a back seat to Rocket and Beliveau and even Boom Boom Geoffrion. He was just delighted to be part of an organization that won Stanley Cups year after year. The sheer love of the game was so obvious in Dickie Moore, and they adored him in Montreal. They adored what he could do on the ice – they loved his pluck and his grit and the fact that he just fit right in.

Dickie Moore going to St. Louis, in the expansion draft, even at 60% of his potential, brought class, skill, hard work, and certainly a winning spirit, and he’s not going to cost you any headaches. That’s what you want in a fellow – just go out and do his job game in and game out, and always be plus.

When he came back from being nearly in the cemetery, he played for St. Louis and they got to the finals. Scotty Bowman raves about how well he played when everyone thought he was done. He didn’t have the wheels he used to have, but he had the know-how, and he was a fierce, competitive guy…. I always thought that Dickie Moore was the best Montreal Canadien player in my books. There was Richard, Beliveau, Harvey, and other guys too, but Moore seemed to have something they didn’t. I’m not saying he was as talented, but he got the job done.

As dedicated to winning as any athlete I’ve ever known. Rough, tough, talented, and a brilliant guy in his own way.

He was a great play-off performer. He scored real key goals for us.

I wasn’t the biggest built kid, but I felt I had a big heart. I could match anybody.

Thanks to Dreakmur for the quotes.

 

[Dreakmur]

That's where intangibles really come into play for me.

What intangibles does Makarov have that Bathgate does not?

Out of all my searching and scraping, I found absolutely nothing on Bathgate other than he was a great scorer. I couldn't even confirm if he was really fast or not.

Here's a link to my Andy Bathgate bio:
http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=30628797&postcount=25

He was called "the archetypal all-around player" in one quote. In another, his style was said to be "favorably compared with the greatest Ranger right winger, Bill Cook". Pretty much every other source comments on his hard shot, good passing, smooth skating, and toughness.

Makarov was blazing fast, and he seemed to be respectable defensively (TDMM says Makarov was used on the PK a lot). Makarov is the kind of player who elevated his linemates to ridiculous heights because of how gifted he was offensively and what he did with those gifts. I don't think Bathgate really did that on quite the same level. Makarov basically created the K in the KLM line, as evidenced by his colossal failure when not playing with Makarov.

For me, speed will only come into play if you go up against a slow defense in the play-offs. Makarov accomplished what he did because of his speed, so it's already included in what he brings.

The Green Unit was 5 men strong. Makarov was their leading scorer, but all 5 men contributed to the unit's success, and all 5 men elevated the rest. You can slam the left winger all you want, but he filled an important role, and without him, the line would not have been as effective.

 

[jarek]

That's some good stuff in the bio, way more than I was ever able to find on his intangibles.

 

[Reds4Life]

Makarov was the most important member of the 5 man unit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef7zTwMhgC0

 

[Dreakmur]

Makarov was the most important member of the 5 man unit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef7zTwMhgC0

I didn't say he wasn't the most important. I said they were all important. They all elevated each other rather than everyone being elevated by Makarov.

Having said that, I'd have Vyacheslav Fetisov as the most important member of the unit.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

Sergei Makarov

7 time World Champion
2 time Olympic gold medalist
2 time World Junior Championship
2 time World Championships best forward
6 time World Championship All-Star
3 time World Championship scoring leader
1 time Canada Cup winner
1 time Canada Cup All-Star
11 time Soviet league Champion
8 time Soviet league first All-Star
9 time Soviet league scoring leader
3 time Soviet player of the year
2 time "Golden Stick" winner (Most outstanding player in Europe)
Calder Trophy winner
IIHF Centennial All-Star Team member
Honoured Master of Sport​

Makarov was a crazy legged skater, blessed with dazzling speed and agility. He was as dangerous of a one-on-one player as there ever has been, emulating the bold and sudden dashes of his idol Valeri Kharlamov. He had a laser of a shot and as much of a goal scorer's mentality as the Soviet system allowed. But he was every bit as lethal with his great passing game, be it short give-and-goes or impossible breakout passes.

Sergei Makarov was the greatest right winger in all of Europe during the 1980s, and the late Valeri Kharlamov's heir as the Soviet's most electrifying and deadly weapon.

Chelyabinsk native Sergei Makarov was a masterful one-on-one player with magical hands who could make the most incredible moves. He always put up big numbers regardless of what linemates he played with.

Makarov became the best right wing in Europe. After the tragic death of Kharlamov he became the successor of this great player. His marvellous stick handling, unbelievable speed and scoring instinct made him one of Coach Name Omitted’s most dangerous weapons. He became assistant captain and silenced the criticism of the past.

The 21-year-old Makarov had been creating mayhem from the beginning of the game, and indeed, from the beginning of the Olympics. If his teammates weren't playing with urgency, he sure was.

He was a relentless offensive machine that never quit.

Tikhonov had a new Kharlamov. He was elastic-legged Sergei Makarov. Though not quite capable of the electricity generated by the bold and sudden dashes of Kharlamov, the lantern-jawed Makarov had the Russian right stuff. There was no better lateral skater in hockey. He dazzled as a one-on-one player and he had the prerequisite of all the best passers in the game – rink-wide eyes.

 

[jarek]

And for the love of god, people, update your roster posts! YEAH, I'M TALKING TO YOU SEVENTIES!!!

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

Is it really necessary at this point? It's way too early to know how the pieces will fit.

 

[jarek]

Is it really necessary at this point? It's way too early to know how the pieces will fit.

YES~~~!!!! I want to see who is in my division before I pick.

 

[EagleBelfour]

YES~~~!!!! I want to see who is in my division before I pick.

First post of this thread will give you an answer. Takes 5 seconds ...

 

[jarek]

First post of this thread will give you an answer. Takes 5 seconds ...

Hah.. hahahaha.. you're funny.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

YES~~~!!!! I want to see who is in my division before I pick.

Teams that react are teams that lose...

Winning teams set the pace and make others follow.

 

[EagleBelfour]

Hah.. hahahaha.. you're funny.

Hmmm ... why?

Damn you're so edgy since the start of this draft!

 

[jarek]

Teams that react are teams that lose...

Winning teams set the pace and make others follow.

So you're saying if someone in your division has Gretzky, you should try to set the pace for that team?

Hmmm ... why?

Damn you're so edgy since the start of this draft!

I would have to try to allocate each team's picks to the correct division in order to figure out who has who. That would take like 15 minutes. I don't have even 2 minutes.

 

[EagleBelfour]

I would have to try to allocate each team's picks to the correct division in order to figure out who has who. That would take like 15 minutes. I don't have even 2 minutes.

That's almost as funny as your poor attempt of humour with your new username.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

So you're saying if someone in your division has Gretzky, you should try to set the pace for that team?

Exactly. If Gretzky sets the pace, Gretzky wins. Once you are reacting to him you've already lost. If you focus on how your team is cohesive and how your team can dictate the play, you will win.

 

[jarek]

Exactly. If Gretzky sets the pace, Gretzky wins. Once you are reacting to him you've already lost. If you focus on how your team is cohesive and how your team can dictate the play, you will win.

Hmm, seems you have no understanding about my strategy, at all. That's OK. NEED ROSTER POSTS UPDATED NAO PLZ!!!

 

[jarek]

That's almost as funny as your poor attempt of humour with your new username.

I wanted to change my username. That's all there is to it. So leave me alone about that!!!

 

[EagleBelfour]

I wanted to change my username. That's all there is to it. So leave me alone about that!!!

I'll have to poke fun at you everytime I can with that username. I'm an Internet bully.

Hmm, seems you have no understanding about my strategy, at all. That's OK. NEED ROSTER POSTS UPDATED NAO PLZ!!!

You're definitely edgy

 

[jarek]

I'll have to poke fun at you everytime I can with that username. I'm an Internet bully.



You're definitely edgy

I'm not edgy dammit!!!! Why are people always saying that?

You can poke fun at my username all you want, I welcome it!

I just want to see the teams so far. Is that so much to ask?