ATD 2011 Draft Thread II

[Stoneberg]

A little late to the party but just wanted to say Boucher is awesome. After having him here last draft and at LC I became extremely impressed with what I read about not only his playmaking, but also strong defensive abilities. Glad he went higher this time.

 

[hfboardsuser]

Detroit Red Wings select

Frank Mahovlich​

Just one of many who should gone ahead of Sundin from a Leafs legend perspective...

 

[seventieslord]

Sure, take credit for what I did.. :/

what you may not realize is that my voice entered your head at that point.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

A little late to the party but just wanted to say Boucher is awesome. After having him here last draft and at LC I became extremely impressed with what I read about not only his playmaking, but also strong defensive abilities. Glad he went higher this time.

Boucher was my 2nd choice to center Rocket Richard after Frank Nighbor, but hoping either would slip to 70 was really a pipe dream.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

No Pilote in that tier?

I actually consider Clancy a very slightly better version of Pilote, so I can't have them in the same tier. I have Pilote kind of on an island by himself, a half step below Chelios/Park/Clancy/Coffey, and a half a step above Horton/Stevens/MacInnis/etc

(But then, I'm just one person).

Cleghorn is certainly talented enough to be considered with Clancy/Chelios/Park/Coffey, but IMO his mental problems knock him down a level.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Good pick on Geoffrion, he was on the short list for me and Dave. Still Malone slipped to us so we had to take him.

I don't know if I'd say Malone "slipped." IMO, this is exactly the range where he should be taken. Solid pick though. I had him before - excellent goal scorer and mega fast.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Great value pick here.

Definitely. Frank Mahovlich is the consensus #4 LW of all time (and some even rank him over Kharlamov, but I wouldn't). He always goes pretty late.

Glad to see that the days of him going ahead of Jagr are long in the past, though.

 

[raleh]

Thanks for announcing the pick, Seventies. I think that Clapper's ability to play RW or D is a reason to take him earlier than he likely should go. With 40 teams, I think that good goal tending and emergency planning will go a little bit further.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I have a question about Bryan Trottier , I don't remember exactly which year but he had something like 82 pts one year and then 45 or something the year just after.Is there a real reason other than age for this significant and fast drop in production?

Also, even if I watched those playoff I don't really remember just how much importance had Trottier in those Pittsburgh cups?

 

[Sturminator]

I have a question about Bryan Trottier , I don't remember exactly which year but he had something like 82 pts one year and then 45 or something the year just after.Is there a real reason other than age for this significant and fast drop in production?

Also, even if I watched those playoff I don't really remember just how much importance had Trottier in those Pittsburgh cups?

He was centering the third line, if I remember correctly, behind two hall of famers. Trottier brought a lot of intensity, experience and a solid checking game to those Penguins teams, but his best years were long behind him.

 

[BraveCanadian]

I have a question about Bryan Trottier , I don't remember exactly which year but he had something like 82 pts one year and then 45 or something the year just after.Is there a real reason other than age for this significant and fast drop in production?

Also, even if I watched those playoff I don't really remember just how much importance had Trottier in those Pittsburgh cups?

He dropped off fast for offensive production at the age of 32 which was not all that unusual for stars of his day.

He also had an awful lot of mileage on the odometer.

In Pittsburgh he was a leadership/role player. No big stats to speak of but Mario did give him a lot of credit after they won for "showing us the way".

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Some nice picks lately and definitely the best forwards available are being snagged here. The Leafs are on their way to a great 1st line with Lindsay-xxxxx-Conacher

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

I actually consider Clancy a very slightly better version of Pilote, so I can't have them in the same tier. I have Pilote kind of on an island by himself, a half step below Chelios/Park/Clancy/Coffey, and a half a step above Horton/Stevens/MacInnis/etc

(But then, I'm just one person).

Cleghorn is certainly talented enough to be considered with Clancy/Chelios/Park/Coffey, but IMO his mental problems knock him down a level.

That is definitely a strange ranking, I think you may be alone on that one. Id say more like Park, Pilote, and Chelios are a tier above Horton/Stevens/Clancy/Macinnis.

 

[Velociraptor]

Sprague Cleghorn, D

Position: Defenseman
HT/WT: 5'10", 190 lbs
Shoots: Left
Nickname: "Peg"

- 3-time Stanley Cup Winner
- Member of the Hockey Hall of Fame (1958)
- 84 goals, 123 regular season points in 251 games played.
- 4 goals, 7 playoff points in 21 games played.

A remarkably talented and fierce competitor, Henry William Sprague Cleghorn was admired, despised and feared during his playing days. Wherever he skated, Cleghorn served as the anchor of his team's defense or occasionally posed an offensive threat as a forward. His on-ice accomplishments and physical style of play made him a virtual archetype of the hard-nosed star of hockey's early days.

At this time Cleghorn was heavily influenced by his teammate Fred "Cyclone" Taylor. Cleghorn rushed forward with the puck in much the same fashion as the illustrious defender and was one of the earliest incarnations of an offensive defenseman.

As well known as he was for his speculative rushes on offense, Cleghorn was lauded for his play even when he didn't have the puck. Many of the game's top forwards were less inclined to venture near a net guarded by a tough defender. But Cleghorn wasn't a mere bully; he was respected for exceptional defensive play that was considered to be at the same level as such stars as xxxxx xxxxxx and xxxxxx xxxxxxx.

Cleghorn was suspended by team owner Leo Dandurand when he attacked Ottawa defenseman, xxxxxx xxxxxxxx, who described his player's actions as "befitting an animal."

Sprague Cleghorn is one of the game's all time best defensemen, but also one of the most aggressive. Perhaps too aggressive, But his on ice greatness has been forever overshadowed by his on ice antics. He played the game with vigilante vigor

Despite such actions, Cleghorn continually produced results, including helping the Habs win their first Stanley Cup as a member of the National Hockey League

Cleghorn and xxxxx xxxxx were traded to the Bruins in the 1925-1926 season, and got rowdy with Eddie Shore in practice, leading him to get repairs on his ear. But over time they became close, and Cleghorn acted as a mentor/tutor the young phenom Shore as he constantly improved into a perennial all-star defenseman.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

That is definitely a strange ranking, I think you may be alone on that one. Id say more like Park, Pilote, and Chelios are a tier above Horton/Stevens/Clancy/Macinnis.

The last HOH Top 100 lists Pilote and Clancy right next to each other despite (IMO) a very slight Original 6 bias in the list.

HOH canon seems to have Chelios/Park/Coffey as a tossup for #10, with both Clancy and Pilote below. But I really don't see the enormous gap between Eddie Shore and King Clancy that others apparently see.

 

[Velociraptor]

Cleghorn is a great piece for Esposito at the point, sure he's no Bobby Orr. But as you can tell, a lot of Esposito's point production came from Orr's activity in the offensive zone. Cleghorn, named as one of the earlier incarnations of an offensive defenseman, so he can definitely man the point, get pucks to the net, where Esposito will have no problem scoring. And the ruthlessness in Cleghorn's defensive play should prove very effective in fending off the opposing team's offense.

 

[arrbez]

Pilote is a hard guy to rank for me.

On one had, he has 8 Allstar selections, 5 straight first-team selections, was clearly the best offensive defender of his era ,etc.

On the other hand, his prime didn't really coincide with the primes of many other truly great defensemen, at least in terms of offensive guys. Tim Horton is probably the only other guy from the 60's who would be consensus top-30 defenseman alltime. Pilote's prime seemed to fill the gap between the Kelly-Harvey era and the Orr-Park era.

But to his credit once again, he absolutely dominated some defense scoring races. He won the 1960, 1964, 1965, and 1967 races by a mile, and was top-5 in defenseman scoring for 10-straight years. In 1965 his 59 points demolished the runner-up's 35, and was twice as much as 3rd place.

Pilote is easily a strong #1 defenseman in this draft, but I can never decide whether I have him challenging for a top-10 spot or down around 15 or so. He was the 13th D picked this draft (if we count Taylor as a D), which seems about right I guess.

 

[Leafs Forever]

Pilote is a hard guy to rank for me.

On one had, he has 8 Allstar selections, 5 straight first-team selections, was clearly the best offensive defender of his era ,etc.

On the other hand, his prime didn't really coincide with the primes of many other truly great defensemen, at least in terms of offensive guys. Tim Horton is probably the only other guy from the 60's who would be consensus top-30 defenseman alltime. Pilote's prime seemed to fill the gap between the Kelly-Harvey era and the Orr-Park era.

But to his credit once again, he absolutely dominated some defense scoring races. He won the 1960, 1964, 1965, and 1967 races by a mile, and was top-5 in defenseman scoring for 10-straight years. In 1965 his 59 points demolished the runner-up's 35, and was twice as much as 3rd place.

Pilote is easily a strong #1 defenseman in this draft, but I can never decide whether I have him challenging for a top-10 spot or down around 15 or so. He was the 13th D picked this draft (if we count Taylor as a D), which seems about right I guess.

Reasonable.

Well, I'll have to work on a good Pilote bio to sell folks more

 

[markrander87]

Arrebez, you had Geoffrion last year. What are your thoughts on him?

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Arrebez, you had Geoffrion last year. What are your thoughts on him?

I'm not arrbez, but I'll chime in.

Geoffrion's playoff performances make him better than his regular season stats IMO. Leading playoff scorer of the 1950s, and it isn't particularly close. Once Beliveau came to the team (mid 50s), he and Geoffrion were more often than not the leading scorers in the playoffs for the Canadiens (Rocket Richard was past his prime by this point, though still effective).

Definitely put him and his cannon of a shot on the point of your first PP unit (preferably next to a puck mover / QB type).

 

[Dreakmur]

Arrebez, you had Geoffrion last year. What are your thoughts on him?

In the past, I've thought he was kind of a one-trick pony, but I've found a quote that kind of dispelled that for me.

It's all yours.

Boom Boom can do everything and do it well. Although he's not stylish, he's a strong skater and checker and he can stickhandle with the best of them.

 

[Velociraptor]

Where might the Vancouver Velocity be?

 

[arrbez]

Arrebez, you had Geoffrion last year. What are your thoughts on him?

Terrible. The worst. I can't believe you picked him.

But seriously, pretty much everything that the guys above me said. Tremendous playoff performer, and a bigtime scorer.

The only issue I found was that his two scoring titles were a little deceiving. Not that they themselves were flukes or anything, but just that they seem to be outliers. He was consistently in the top-10, but he never really came close to the leaders any other year. I guess I was just surprised that a two-time scoring champ wasn't more consistently in the top-5.

But hey, you won't get a Gordie Howe at pick #58. Nobody is 100% flawless at this point in the draft. It's a good pick.

 

[arrbez]

Where might the Vancouver Velocity be?

Were they PMed?

 

[jarek]

Were they PMed?

I PM'd both of them trade offers, so yeah..