At what point is it time for a rebuild?

[lexlavender]

The best thing to happen to this team in the past four years is that all of our highest paid, longest contract players had amazing seasons at roughly the same time, and following the most embarrassing playoff loss in franchise history (yeah, hyperbole, but still). Kopitar, Carter, Brown, and Doughty's values are all the highest they will ever be.

-Kopitar is coming off of an amazing year, a year which totally justifies his contract
-Carter got 35 goals last year and was on a 40 goal pace this year
-Brown had his best season ever
-Doughty had his best offensive season ever

THE TIME TO TRADE THESE PLAYERS IS NOW. START THE DAMN REBUILD.

We can hold on to Toffoli and Pearson, their value is at an all time low and they're still young, might turn it around. I wouldn't mind keeping one of Carter/Kopitar to actually lead the team.

But the cap weight and prospects we'd receive for finally looking at this team honestly would be worth it. I'm tired of being disappointed, and I think the players are too. Start the rebuild.

 

[KINGS17]

Yes, the players are all about winning. Until it comes time to negotiate their next contract, then it's all business and getting every dollar they can for themselves. It's fine if the money is their priority, but you would think GMs would recognize the pattern of how things go for teams with these types of contracts.

 

[StreetHawk]

The best thing to happen to this team in the past four years is that all of our highest paid, longest contract players had amazing seasons at roughly the same time, and following the most embarrassing playoff loss in franchise history (yeah, hyperbole, but still). Kopitar, Carter, Brown, and Doughty's values are all the highest they will ever be.

-Kopitar is coming off of an amazing year, a year which totally justifies his contract
-Carter got 35 goals last year and was on a 40 goal pace this year
-Brown had his best season ever
-Doughty had his best offensive season ever

THE TIME TO TRADE THESE PLAYERS IS NOW. START THE DAMN REBUILD.

We can hold on to Toffoli and Pearson, their value is at an all time low and they're still young, might turn it around. I wouldn't mind keeping one of Carter/Kopitar to actually lead the team.

But the cap weight and prospects we'd receive for finally looking at this team honestly would be worth it. I'm tired of being disappointed, and I think the players are too. Start the rebuild.

Brown still a tough contract to move with his 5 years left. Have to be pretty much half retained to get a team to bite.

All others can fetch a great return. Add quick to that mix as well.

But, all comes down to what Blake sees. Are there enough good young players to come in and play well like in Boston to justify keeping th core around? Otherwise, they will just tread water for another 5 -7 years.

 

[lexlavender]

Brown still a tough contract to move with his 5 years left. Have to be pretty much half retained to get a team to bite.

All others can fetch a great return. Add quick to that mix as well.

But, all comes down to what Blake sees. Are there enough good young players to come in and play well like in Boston to justify keeping th core around? Otherwise, they will just tread water for another 5 -7 years.

I'm not hoping for a great return on Brown, just that this is the best time to get rid of him.

 

[johnjm22]

Brown still a tough contract to move with his 5 years left. Have to be pretty much half retained to get a team to bite.

All others can fetch a great return. Add quick to that mix as well.

But, all comes down to what Blake sees. Are there enough good young players to come in and play well like in Boston to justify keeping th core around? Otherwise, they will just tread water for another 5 -7 years.

Brown has 4 years left. It would be really interesting to see what his value is, if any, with significant retention.

I'm not opposed to trading anyone, but I want the team to have some semblance of structure/stability while we're bringing in young players. Throwing them into a tire fire can be problematic. Since Brown wouldn't return much, I'm fine with just keeping him.

Muzzin, Martinez, Carter and Lewis are the players I would be looking to move ASAP.

 

[Nodoughtyboutit]

I'm hoping we retool, but it's hard to not get a chubby thinking about the amount of pick and prospects we could get trading away Kopitar, Doughty, Toffoli, Carter, Muzzin, etc. Ohh back to the years of being really excited for the draft and camp hahah

 

[Choralone]

The Kings integrated quite a few young (or NHL inexperienced) guys in the lineup - Iafallo, Kempe, Forbort, Fantenberg, Amadio, LaDue. That has to be part of the reason for the inconsistency. Some were complaining about Kempe's long dry spell in the last part of the season and playoffs - he hit the typical rookie wall; look for him to fix it.

Also, the Kings have been adding speed (Reider, Kempe) but aren't there yet.

So this team is sort of half-way between what it was and what it will be, and so it's sort of a mutant that isn't anything yet.

The key core players that some people want to get rid of (because they are expensive) of Kopitar, Doughty, and Quick - are still our best players. They aren't the problem. Continue to upgrade the speed of the supporting players. Trade Toffoli. Pearson brings speed and tenacity - keep him. Consider moving Carter because he's a bit older and his contract is appealing - but only for youth so you aren't adding a ton more salary (and I love Carter). It's not as exciting as blowing things up, but I think it would be a mistake to blow things up.

 

[bouncesonly]

So instead of tearing the team down, the Kings need to solve that scoring problem. Getting even one legit top 6 winger can suddenly change things, whether via trade, free agency, or even Vilardi entering our lineup. You can't simply conclude that based on past failures, we should just blow the team up. You have to look at what problems existed in the past and how this team has evolved.

Disagree. Kucherov would have a hard time scoring the way the Kings play offense. Cycle, cycle, cycle, whoops lost the puck, battle, got the puck back, cycle, cycle, cycle, defenseman shoots into someones boot.......and repeat. Where in this process will Kucherov be able to score? Or Panarin? Or insert any top scorer? Amazing Kopitar scored 30+ goals doing this. He should win the Hart just on this basis alone

 

[kingsfan28]

No way this team does a full rebuild. I could see them doing what the Bruins did, but to rip it down to the foundation is insane.

 

[KINGS17]

No way this team does a full rebuild. I could see them doing what the Bruins did, but to rip it down to the foundation is insane.

The Kings don't have the assets to duplicate the Bruins' plan.

 

[Choralone]

Technically, I think we're going for the Chicago plan - swap out non-core players and ride your core for one last cup before you have a burnt-out, hot mess.

 

[Reclamation Project]

The illusion of picks and prospects is nice, but we know what Doughty is already - arguably the best hockey player on the planet.

 

[Rorschach]

A rebuild only sounds so sexy because our team core is excellent. Other rebuilding teams wish they had our core at the end of their rebuild.

The only reason we should rebuild is if that core breaks, for example Doughty leaving. Otherwise pretty much every year we should be retooling.

 

[johnjm22]

"Doughty is the best defensemen in the leauge. Arguably the best player in the world."
"Kopitar is one of the top 5 centers in the game. Elite"
"Quick is elite."

If all these statements are true, then why are we so bad?

I'm getting tired of hearing this stuff. Even if you have a sub par supporting cast, if you've got an elite goalie, center and dman, winning shouldn't be this hard.

Something isn't adding up.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

"Doughty is the best defensemen in the leauge. Arguably the best player in the world."
"Kopitar is one of the top 5 centers in the game. Elite"
"Quick is elite."

If all these statements are true, then why are we so bad?

I'm getting tired of hearing this stuff. Even if you have a sub par supporting cast, if you've got an elite goalie, center and dman, winning shouldn't be this hard.

Something isn't adding up.

TB had that. They haven't won yet. Boston had that. They haven't won in years. Need I go on? Hell, Pittsburgh has not ONE but TWO generational superstars, for a long while Letang was an elite d-man, and they've had several goalies who have PLAYED elite (if they arne't elite) and it took them nearly a decade to get back into real contention.

Hockey is a team sport and when we were winning the best guys were the best guys but the depth guys were outplaying other depth guys. You may not want to hear it, but sub par supporting cast has only gotten it done once lately and that's with Pittsburgh.

 

[johnjm22]

TB had that. They haven't won yet. Boston had that. They haven't won in years. Need I go on? Hell, Pittsburgh has not ONE but TWO generational superstars, for a long while Letang was an elite d-man, and they've had several goalies who have PLAYED elite (if they arne't elite) and it took them nearly a decade to get back into real contention.

Hockey is a team sport and when we were winning the best guys were the best guys but the depth guys were outplaying other depth guys. You may not want to hear it, but sub par supporting cast has only gotten it done once lately and that's with Pittsburgh.

I didn't say Stanley Cup. I just said winning.

 

[Docgonzo]

"Doughty is the best defensemen in the leauge. Arguably the best player in the world."
"Kopitar is one of the top 5 centers in the game. Elite"
"Quick is elite."

If all these statements are true, then why are we so bad?

I'm getting tired of hearing this stuff. Even if you have a sub par supporting cast, if you've got an elite goalie, center and dman, winning shouldn't be this hard.

Something isn't adding up.

Lack of depth is what’s killing this team. Trading away all that youth and picks are catching up us.

The problem is after those players we don’t have much. I mean how long did it take Pittsburgh to get back to the Cup? 1-3 players can’t carry a team without some help.

 

[fsanford]

"Doughty is the best defensemen in the leauge. Arguably the best player in the world."
"Kopitar is one of the top 5 centers in the game. Elite"
"Quick is elite."

If all these statements are true, then why are we so bad?

I'm getting tired of hearing this stuff. Even if you have a sub par supporting cast, if you've got an elite goalie, center and dman, winning shouldn't be this hard.

Something isn't adding up.

Um Buffalo, Arizona, Vancouver, are bad.
LA is not bad

Some of you must have not been around during 2004, 2005, 2006 2007, 2008 years Now that WAS BAD!

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I didn't say Stanley Cup. I just said winning.

I know, but it's similar--remember TB missed the playoffs altogether last year. Pittsburgh could hardly get out of the first round for years.

I hear you, I do, and I don't fully disagree, we made it look especially painful the last few years, I'm just pointing out there are parallels.

 

[Docgonzo]

I didn't say Stanley Cup. I just said winning.

If we’re going just winning I didn’t know 98 point season was a losing season.

 

[johnjm22]

Um Buffalo, Arizona, Vancouver, are bad.
LA is not bad

Some of you must have not been around during 2004, 2005, 2006 2007, 2008 years Now that WAS BAD!

I've been following the Kings religously since 94. Trust me. I know bad, but the word is relative. You know what I mean.

If we’re going just winning I didn’t know 98 point season was a losing season.

And it was a struggle to get there. Eeeked into the the playoffs. If the aforementioned statements are true, winning shouldn’t be this hard.

I know, but it's similar--remember TB missed the playoffs altogether last year. Pittsburgh could hardly get out of the first round for years.

I hear you, I do, and I don't fully disagree, we made it look especially painful the last few years, I'm just pointing out there are parallels.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but according to you the supporting cast isn't that bad. I hear from you and @damacles1156 that our bottom 6 is average. On top of that we have a top notch 2nd line center. Martinez and Muzzin these are solid top 4 guys. We all seem to like Phanuef and Folin as bottom pairing guys. If all this is true and we have 3 elite players at key positions. Winning shouldn’t be this hard. Again, something doesn't add up. Every team in the league has holes because of the salary cap.

I'm just getting tired of hearing how great these guys are, and watching us struggle every night.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Some of you must have not been around during 2004, 2005, 2006 2007, 2008 years Now that WAS BAD!

I was a Golden Knights fan.

 

[kovacro]

Um Buffalo, Arizona, Vancouver, are bad.
LA is not bad

Some of you must have not been around during 2004, 2005, 2006 2007, 2008 years Now that WAS BAD!

I will say this about Vancouver, they have some nice pieces on the roster in Horvat, Boeser and to a lesser extent Virtanen. They got Juolevi, Gaudette and Demko coming and the Sedins are off the books. They could turn it around quickly if Benning doesn’t f*** it up.

If you thought 04’ - 08’ were bad, you should have seen the Kings for most of the 80’s. Bad on and off the ice.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

The Kings don't have the assets to duplicate the Bruins' plan.

The Bruins hit grand slams with McAvoy and especially Pastrnak. 14th overall for McAvoy and 25th overall for Pastrnak. All circles back to that Lucic trade. Kings obviously would look a hell of a lot better if they had kept that pick in 2015 and picked one of the excellent up and coming forwards.

 

[KINGS17]

The problem for the Kings, and the reason I don't think they can duplicate what Boston has done in recent years, is the Kings got a late start. The Bruins already have an NHL roster stocked with 6 or 7 players age 20-23. Adding that kind of youth and depth takes time. Time the Kings don't have with Kopitar being 30, Quick age 32, Carter 33, Brown 33, Martinez 30, Lewis 31, and Doughty 29.

Coming into this season the Kings were the 3rd oldest team in the NHL at an average age of 28.3 years. Only Ottawa and Detroit were older.

People like to mention Boston. That's why I use them as an example in contrast. Average age of the Boston roster is 26.9 years, and that's with a 40-year old Chara. In fact, there is a huge generation gap on the Bruins roster. Many 23 and under and many over 30. The problem is the Boston core players over 30 are roughly the same age as the Kings core.

This Kings core has had their run, and now it's over. There isn't time to restock before they are 34-37 years of age.