At what point did the the Unites States surpass Russia as Canada's biggest rival?

[Strangle]

Regardless of the political situation, that's crazy to not want to have seen players like Kucherov, Ovechkin, Bobrovski, Panarin, etc. play at the highest level.

I agree, and I don’t at all understand how it’s in any way “political”

This tournament isn’t a real international tournament, it’s an NHL tournament.

What’s the difference between kucherov and Ovechkin playing last night in an NHL exhibition game with a different jersey than normal and playing next week for their NHL teams?

This is just bullshit activism making stupid decisions that make no logical sense.

Someone said Sweden and Finland would ‘boycott’. How? They’re NHL players under contract, the NHL controls all of this shit, not ‘Sweden’ or ‘Finland’.

So f***ing stupid

 

[Score08]

We love to pat ourselves on the back for all of our victories that it's only fair to recognize those teams that knocked us out of the tournament at best on best.



I assume you have some phone display or monitor settings you can fool around with to make it look like it happened a long time ago.

No, I’m busting your balls

 

[NyQuil]

Pat ourselves in the back? For what? Watching one team we like beat another team we don’t like? These aren’t our accomplishments. You are reading way too much into my comment.

You made an incorrect statement, that's all. It happens.

You're reading way too much into my comment.

 

[Oilslick941611]

You made an incorrect statement, that's all. It happens.

You're reading way too much into my comment.

No. You’re focusing on the 06 QF like the rivalry hinges on it. I just said Russia never really put up a fight up during that time frame( and they didn’t). Then you hyper focused on the 06 QF and started talking about giving credit where credit is due.

 

[NyQuil]

No. You’re focusing on the 06 QF like the rivalry hinges on it. I just said Russia never really put up a fight up during that time frame( and they didn’t). Then you hyper focused on the 06 QF and started talking about giving credit where credit is due.

No, not at all. It has nothing to do with the rivalry at all.

You can say that Myanmar is Canada's biggest rival and it wouldn't change anything that I wrote.

I don't care about who you think the biggest rivalry is.

All I had an issue with was the statement that Russia didn't put up a fight against Canada at best on best tournaments in the 90s and 2000s when they beat AND ELIMINATED Canada at a best on best tournament at that time.

Maybe you'd forgotten or something.

 

[AvroArrow]

Since I was a kid it's always been Canada vs USA as the biggest international hockey rivalry. (Born in '92)

Prior to that, not sure. Maybe when it was the Soviet Union it might've been bigger ?

 

[Nakawick]

Actually the rivalry was mostly with the Soviet Union.

The collapse of the Soviet Union took some bite away from the rivalry. The growth of the game in the US has resulted in more players playing at a high level. So probably early 90’s.

 

[Beau Knows]

Someone said Sweden and Finland would ‘boycott’. How? They’re NHL players under contract, the NHL controls all of this shit, not ‘Sweden’ or ‘Finland’.

It wouldn't really be all that complicated...the Swedish and Finnish players could just decline to participate.

 

[Oilslick941611]

No, not at all. It has nothing to do with the rivalry at all.

You can say that Myanmar is Canada's biggest rival and it wouldn't change anything that I wrote.

I don't care about who you think the biggest rivalry is.

All I had an issue with was the statement that Russia didn't put up a fight against Canada at best on best tournaments in the 90s and 2000s when they beat AND ELIMINATED Canada at a best on best tournament at that time.

Maybe you'd forgotten or something.

You’ve made that quite clear and it doesn’t change anything. But hey good for you being out there white knighting and making sure everyone knows Russia beat Canada in 06 (a claim I never said didn’t happen) and focusing on it for 4 posts.

 

[NyQuil]

But hey good for you being out there white knighting and making sure everyone knows Russia beat Canada in 06 (a claim I never said didn’t happen) and focusing on it for 4 posts.

You're the one claiming that Russia somehow beat Canada in 2006 without giving them a good game.

Best on best russia never really put up a fight against Canada in this time frame.

Like, how else would you read this statement?

 

[Oilslick941611]

You're the one claiming that Russia somehow beat Canada in 2006 without giving them a good game.



Like, how else would you read this statement?

Again. “Never really” doesn’t mean “never”. I never claimed russia never beat Canada in that time frame. I said never really as in the games they played didn’t further the dying rivalry. The 06 QF is a blip on the radar. It didn’t produce anger against the Russians or make Canadians go “ the Russians are our main rival”

 

[MadLuke]

I don’t at all understand how it’s in any way “political”

You must do at least in small little obvious way, divide people by nation, sing their national anthem with country color and flags.

People booing the American anthem was in some way for them, political.

So is recognizing Russia as a nation worthy or not of being represented in such a "political" show. We swim so much in how political sport always has been that we do not see it anymore.

If this nation tournament was the first time ever in history that the notion of a national team playing another national team (a strange notion and thing to do), first time ever a national anthem was played during a sport event (tradition that started to recognize the numerous war veteran among the players-staff-crowd), etc.... it would have been more obvious how political this is (maybe not a lot or in many ways, but in some small ways).

Olympics ancient or modern are very "political", which nation has enough surplus to create the best full time warrior/athlete, the best sport culture-healthiest population type of mentality, to give an example when canada started to loose at intl hockey the federal government started a commission, they finance something hockey canada and named Hockey a sport national in the national sports of Canada Act of 1994...

 

[DamonDRW]

...so when Drug Testing began??...

you are close but a bit more TV watching is needed for you. this way you can completely stop thinking yourself and save 200-300 watts your brain consumes.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

you are close but a bit more TV watching is needed for you. this way you can completely stop thinking yourself and save 200-300 watts your brain consumes.

 

[ViD]

Russia would have Igor, Kuch, Kap, then a bunch of past their prime players at this point. They aren’t even as good as their early 2000s 2010s teams that had Datsyuk, Gonchar, Markov.

Team Russia’s Dcore at full strength 100% healthy and able to play is still much worse than Finlands injured Dcore this tournament.

You’re kidding right ?

Russia has 6 NHL d men playing 20+ minutes a night and 10 playing 18+ a night.

Finland has 2 (two) d men playing 18+ a night in their roster

Again. “Never really” doesn’t mean “never”. I never claimed russia never beat Canada in that time frame. I said never really as in the games they played didn’t further the dying rivalry. The 06 QF is a blip on the radar. It didn’t produce anger against the Russians or make Canadians go “ the Russians are our main rival”

I think you clearly messed up and backpedaling now. Just accept your loss and move on

 

[rfournier103]

The collapse of the Soviet Union and the end of the Cold War changed a lot. Even with everything going on today, it just doesn’t feel the same as it did then. Tensions between Russia and the West today really boil down to one man. Whereas in the Cold War, Soviet leaders came and went but hostilities remained high from the end of WWII until Mikhail Gorbachev came to power.

There is also the way the Soviet hockey program was constructed and operated vs. the way the Russian national team operates today. That is too long of a story to post here.

The US win in the 1996 World Cup and close battles since have also aided the sea-change.

 

[Tmu84]

1996 probably, but it was never the same between Canada and Russia after 1987, really.

1987 is the answer. Russia last time beat Canada on Best-on-best in 1981. Yikes.

 

[NyQuil]

1987 is the answer. Russia only has beaten once Canada on Best-on-best and last time was 1981. Yikes.

Also in 2006.

 

[Tmu84]

Also in 2006.

Forgot 2006. But still quite terrible record.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

I don’t see it. The Russian team would have holes in it just like the others. Who’s their best defensemen right now, Sergachev? And unless Malkin finds the fountain of youth, that’s not a great 1C to have. A few amazing wingers and a couple of great goalies wouldn’t result in blowouts.

Nikishin. Their D doesn't have any superstars unless Nikishin proves to be one which he might, but they actually aren't really all that bad, just very lefty heavy but that's not as big of a problem as lacking in talent like say Finland is these days. Nowhere near Canada or US level but Nikishin, Orlov, Sergachev, Zub, Provorov, Gavrikov, Romanov really is a pretty solid group.

Center is definitely a big weakness for Russia, probably one that couldn't be easily overcome right now against a US/Canada.

But yeah their elite talent at wing and goalie would have me not ruling them out of any international tournament completely. I mean, Kuch and Kaprizov are in my eyes easily top 5 players in the league, and conservatively there's really no argument for them being outside the top 10. Then Vasi, Shestyorkin and Sorokin; even with some recent struggles (relatively speaking) in the NHL that is the best goaltending of any country.

 

[Grifter3511]

I agree, and I don’t at all understand how it’s in any way “political”

This tournament isn’t a real international tournament, it’s an NHL tournament.

What’s the difference between kucherov and Ovechkin playing last night in an NHL exhibition game with a different jersey than normal and playing next week for their NHL teams?

This is just bullshit activism making stupid decisions that make no logical sense.

Someone said Sweden and Finland would ‘boycott’. How? They’re NHL players under contract, the NHL controls all of this shit, not ‘Sweden’ or ‘Finland’.

So f***ing stupid

Not that I disagree with your overall point, but it's not mandated in anyone's contract that they have to play in extra-curricular tournaments, is it? If not, then Sweden and Finland could easily boycott a tournament like this.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

I agree, and I don’t at all understand how it’s in any way “political”

This tournament isn’t a real international tournament, it’s an NHL tournament.

What’s the difference between kucherov and Ovechkin playing last night in an NHL exhibition game with a different jersey than normal and playing next week for their NHL teams?

This is just bullshit activism making stupid decisions that make no logical sense.

Someone said Sweden and Finland would ‘boycott’. How? They’re NHL players under contract, the NHL controls all of this shit, not ‘Sweden’ or ‘Finland’.

So f***ing stupid

..."bullshit activism"??...so you cannot understand why SOME THINGS are larger than Hockey??...

 

[Oilslick941611]

I think you clearly messed up and backpedaling now. Just accept your loss and move on

no, i clearly didn't mispeak and have clear in my replies. Russia is not the main rival for canada anymore and hasn't been since 87. The QF in 06 doesnt change that.

 

[PrimumHockeyist]

Historically, Russia has been Canada's biggest rival, but in recent history, USA became Canada's biggest rival. The games between Canada and the US have been intense and big game matches. Hockey games that fans wants to see.

The question is this: At what point or time did the States become Canada's biggest rival?

96.

 

[Toby91ca]

It was 1991, when the US faced Canada in the CC Finals. Hockey world didn't realize it.

Nah...US still wasn't on my radar then....but they definitely were after 1996.