At what point did the the Unites States surpass Russia as Canada's biggest rival?

[ColbyChaos]

Russia would have Igor, Kuch, Kap, then a bunch of past their prime players at this point. They aren’t even as good as their early 2000s 2010s teams that had Datsyuk, Gonchar, Markov.

Team Russia’s Dcore at full strength 100% healthy and able to play is still much worse than Finlands injured Dcore this tournament.

 

[DamonDRW]

Russia would have Igor, Kuch, Kap, then a bunch of past their prime players at this point. They aren’t even as good as their early 2000s 2010s teams that had Datsyuk, Gonchar, Markov.

Team Russia’s Dcore at full strength 100% healthy and able to play is still much worse than Finlands injured Dcore this tournament.

when you have Shesterkin as your goalie anything could happen. For some reason fans here don't count goalies as a part of the team.

 

[Grifter3511]

93-96

Last time a Canadian team wins the Cupcwhen the Habs beat Gretzky and the Kings in 93. Next year Canadian team loses against another big market team in the Rangers. Followed immediately by the lockout and then the World Cup with the loss to USA.

Russia who? USA took Gretzky away. Then they took Messier away. Then they beat them in a best on best.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

When Russia stopped winning or even medaling in best on best tournaments

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

When Russia stopped winning or even medaling in best on best tournaments

...so when Drug Testing began??...

 

[Bowski]

...so when Drug Testing began??...

 

[snag]

By 1996 world cup final..., Soviet-Canada was huge, post Berlin Wall fall Russia, less of a big deal.

In 1996, a couple of times they dropped the glove.

1991 world cup was against them, with a weakened soviet team that feared deflection from its stars, then in 1996 again back to back.

For the 1998 Olympics Canada went with team USA in mind more than any other teams would be my guess and vice-versa.

Dude....you are Canadian and you called it the 1991 World Cup? And it was held in Montreal (noteable because of your avatar)!!

Shame on you!

 

[TheLegend27]

Have you actually like looked at a potential Team Russia roster? It's really bad. They would finish 4th or 5th if they were added. Guys like Malkin and Ovechkin haven't been replaced, and Panarin is in decline. Kaprizov and Kucherov are elite but there's not much beyond that.

To be honest, they probably have the best Goalie Rotation, with a top 3 goaltender in the world. They also have a top three player in the world among other high-quality forwards. The only issue is the defense, but looking at the all-around Finland and Sweden rosters, I'd say the third-best roster is a safe bet along with a third-place finish being the most likely scenario.

Russia is second tier in the roster talent rankings:
Tier one:
Canada
USA

Tier two:
Russia
Finland
Sweden

Tier three:
Czech Republic
Switzerland
Slovakia
Germany
Norway

Russia tends to underperform their talent level recently, but for roster talent, they have to be third.

 

[ColbyChaos]

when you have Shesterkin as your goalie anything could happen. For some reason fans here don't count goalies as a part of the team.

And Igor is already playing bad while the rangers not only have a much better Dcore than a hypothetical team Russia, but they as a whole also play better defense as a whole. 36 year old Malkin and Ovechkin aren’t going to be back checking and they weren’t even good defensively 10 years ago either.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

And Igor is already playing bad while the rangers not only have a much better Dcore than a hypothetical team Russia, but they as a whole also play better defense as a whole. 36 year old Malkin and Ovechkin aren’t going to be back checking and they weren’t even good defensively 10 years ago either.

...Malkin would fall apart as soon as he hit his own blueline...

 

[Mathieukferland]

I still consider Canada v Russia as the most historically important rivalry, even if it’s not currently the hottest

 

[Leaf Fans]

93-96

Last time a Canadian team wins the Cupcwhen the Habs beat Gretzky and the Kings in 93. Next year Canadian team loses against another big market team in the Rangers. Followed immediately by the lockout and then the World Cup with the loss to USA.

Russia who? USA took Gretzky away. Then they took Messier away. Then they beat them in a best on best.

......internationally, lost a few times after that. Won a couple of jr tournaments . Won last Saturday.

 

[TheStatican]

Regardless of the political situation, that's crazy to not want to have seen players like Kucherov, Ovechkin, Bobrovski, Panarin, etc. play at the highest level.

They had guys like Malkin, peak Ovechkin, Datsyuk, Kovalchuk and didn't do shit. The current class wouldn't fair any better.

 

[HockeyWooot]

1996 and it never went back after that. In 2002 I can remember sort of hoping it would be the US we played in the gold medal game because of revenge for 1996. Russia just hadn't given us that recent battle prior to that. It had been 1987 since we had significant meaningful hockey between them. So I think that since the U.S. became the next best team after us it just evolved naturally because Russia just hasn't been in the finals like the Americans have. Sentimentally it is Russia you still want to see but no doubt it has been an entire generation that US has overtaken them as our biggest rival.

Funny thing is, we've almost never had blowout games against the U.S. 1976 it was a 4-2 win by us with an empty netter. 1981 we won 8-3 but it was tied midway through the 3rd period. Then 4-1 in the semis. Then a 4-4 tie somehow in 1987. A 3-2 win in 1987. And then three wins in 1991. That's it up until 1996.

1996 Hockey World Cup will forever be a core memory for me.

Had just emigrated to Canada earlier that Summer from Hong Kong. I was excited about hockey having watched the Disney Mighty Ducks many times though otherwise having little exposure.

What an introduction to this great sport! The excitement and the disappointment.

Hull, Tkachuk, Chelios, Leetch, Richter were standouts for the US. I quickly grew to absolutely hate them despite not knowing who they were a mere few weeks prior and still knowing little about the sport for that matter haha

 

[Tuoppi]

To be honest, they probably have the best Goalie Rotation, with a top 3 goaltender in the world. They also have a top three player in the world among other high-quality forwards. The only issue is the defense, but looking at the all-around Finland and Sweden rosters, I'd say the third-best roster is a safe bet along with a third-place finish being the most likely scenario.

Russia is second tier in the roster talent rankings:
Tier one:
Canada
USA

Tier two:
Russia
Finland
Sweden

Tier three:
Czech Republic
Switzerland
Slovakia
Germany
Norway

Russia tends to underperform their talent level recently, but for roster talent, they have to be third.

I would split the third tier. You can`t compare the Czechs with Norway.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Mid to late '90s. The rivalry that is perpetuated these days for the team currently banned exists only in broadcast marketing teams anytime a Canada v country that is currently banned comes up in the schedule.

 

[Sniper99]

i don't

I do.

 

[daver]

If using the WJCs as a barometer, 2003 saw the Russians beat Canada in the final with a young OV. They still had an air of the old Soviet teams at the time and was still the clear 2nd best hockey country at the time.

The beatdown in 2005 probably took that rivalry down a notch. The 2007 epic shootout with the US added a lot to the rivalry as the thought of the US surpassing Canada in hockey was worse than the Russians being better.

 

[black99]

Historically, Russia has been Canada's biggest rival, but in recent history, USA became Canada's biggest rival. The games between Canada and the US have been intense and big game matches. Hockey games that fans wants to see.

The question is this: At what point or time did the States become Canada's biggest rival?

I believe it was around Feb 10 or 11 2025.
I am European so please forgive my bad memory.

 

[HabsCode]

Have you actually like looked at a potential Team Russia roster? It's really bad. They would finish 4th or 5th if they were added. Guys like Malkin and Ovechkin haven't been replaced, and Panarin is in decline. Kaprizov and Kucherov are elite but there's not much beyond that.

Something like that, they lack C and RHD

Kucherov-Malkin-Panarin
Kaprizov-Nichushkin-Ovechkin
Svechnikov-Namestnikov-Michkov
Tarasenko-Dadonov-Buchnevich
Demidov

Sergachev-Provorov
Romanov-Gavrikov
Zadarov-Kulikov
Zub/Myntiukov

Sheshterkin
Vasilevski
Brobovski

 

[BullLund]

They had guys like Malkin, peak Ovechkin, Datsyuk, Kovalchuk and didn't do shit. The current class wouldn't fair any better.

Maybe not. It's still worth seeing the best players in the world play against each other.

 

[Zine]

Mid to late 2000, as there were still some epic Russia/Canada WJC battles in the early 2000 team USA couldn't match.

But USA overtaking everybody in becoming the #1 hockey is/was bound to happen as long as the game continues to grow in the US.
It’s taking a little longer than expected, but the writing is on the wall as they say.

 

[Bradely]

Regardless of the political situation, that's crazy to not want to have seen players like Kucherov, Ovechkin, Bobrovski, Panarin, etc. play at the highest level.

Beleiving that sports ain't a political instrument is naive.
Like I wrote, I don't think neither beleive that an international tournament of importance without ALL the best in the world. For me, 4 nations is a not a great international tournament, it is a NHL product

 

[PaulD]

Historically, Russia has been Canada's biggest rival, but in recent history, USA became Canada's biggest rival. The games between Canada and the US have been intense and big game matches. Hockey games that fans wants to see.

The question is this: At what point or time did the States become Canada's biggest rival?

When Americans teams became better than Russian teams.

 

[Mad Dog Tannen]

I think US goaltending has surpassed Canada at the moment. The rest, and the premise of this thread? To be determined Thursday night.

I will say, the us/ can game was awesome - and US played a game most Canadians would identify as “the way to play”. Fights, very physical, tight defence and solid goaltending. The US were awesome and played amazing. It’s also hard to argue with the roster they took. Very few arguments for other players, or players left off (although there are some).

Hockey Canada - and team Canada sure have been getting cute IMO. I also find the all Tampa bay or nepotism line pretty gross. 32 teams and 25% of your forwards are from coaches team.

Anyways, not much can be done about Canada roster now, cant wait for Thursday!!