At 6th Overall the Red Wings Take Filip Zadina

[shanman]

And now I understand why some fans were fine with taking 3 forwards with the first 4 picks. They rate our defensive prospects a helluva lot higher than I do.

Hicketts - AHL player
Hronek - 3/4 guy
Cholowski - 3/4 guy
Lindstrom - 5/6 guy
Sulak - 5/6 guy
Saarijarvi - AHL player

Now all these are guesses. Any of these players could outperform my predictions (or underperform them, I suppose). But statistically, we should expect at least some of them to never really pan out, because that's just the nature of NHL prospects.

Fingers crossed that at least a couple blue liners work their way into the top 10 for 2019.

well even with that, you have 2 top 4 defenders in hronek/cholo (and cholo was a 20th overall selection, so would have been a higher selection than any of our other picks save for zadina slot). Hicketts for me is a guy that has constantly been looked down on, yet competes and does pretty well anytime he actually gets a shot. Yeah lindstrom/sulak/saar are prob all that 5/6 pairing, but heck considering the trash we have had there lately not that bad haha. Better and cheaper future options than the options we have been using there these last couple years haha.

add in mcisaac who can hopefully become a top 4 option with his skating/defense we are really just prob missing that other top 4 defender. So for me we could have this right now as a future options in our d corps relatively soon
cholo-XXX
hronek-McIsaac
Hicketts-Sulak.

Do i necessarily think picking a guy like wilde changes that immensely? Maybe. Perhaps McIsaac becomes that non flashy, good skating defensive guy you can pair with your top offensive dman to form a good complimentary pair. Idk. Just think people are very negative due to our history of developing guys and our struggles with our current d crops. If you look at the draft picks of those potential top 4 guys, you have a 20th overall pick, a 53rd overall guy in hronek, and a 36th overall pick in mcIsaac. Not exactly scrubs spots to get defenders that can become top 4 guys.

 

[Foggy1097]

I disagree with hayton but that’s your opinion. I think your Gm reached big time

Hey at the end of the day both teams got high quality players that they wanted...good times all around!

 

[ricky0034]

And now I understand why some fans were fine with taking 3 forwards with the first 4 picks. They rate our defensive prospects a helluva lot higher than I do.

Hicketts - AHL player
Hronek - 3/4 guy
Cholowski - 3/4 guy
Lindstrom - 5/6 guy
Sulak - 5/6 guy
Saarijarvi - AHL player

Now all these are guesses. Any of these players could outperform my predictions (or underperform them, I suppose). But statistically, we should expect at least some of them to never really pan out, because that's just the nature of NHL prospects.

Fingers crossed that at least a couple blue liners work their way into the top 10 for 2019.

yeah sounds about right to me

I didn't like our forward prospect group any better than that really either prior to this draft but that's an entirely different situation

Larkin's only like a year or two older than these guys(and younger than Hicketts and Sulak) and Mantha's still only 23 himself(which is still younger than Sulak),not even mentioning other lesser 23 year old forwards experienced enough to not be considered prospects anymore in Athanasiou and Bertuzzi

what promising young players do the Wings have already in the NHL on top of their prospect pool? literally nobody? Jensen's 27 and sucks,Ouellet sucks and just got waived and bought out,Russo sucks and just got moved for a conditional 7th

I won't dispute that the Wings need more talent at forward in the NHL too but at least there's SOMETHING there you know? it's just a world of difference when you compare it to the defense even before this draft

 

[shanman]

yeah sounds about right to me

I didn't like ourforward prospect group any better than that really either prior to this draft but that's an entirely different situation

Larkin's only like a year or two older than these guys(and younger than Hicketts and Sulak) and Mantha's still only 23 himself(which is still younger than Sulak),not even mentioning other lesser 23 year old forwards experienced enough to not be considered prospects anymore in Athanasiou and Bertuzzi

what promising young players do the Wings have already in the NHL on top of their prospect pool? literally nobody? Jensen's 27 and not good,Ouellet isn't good and just got waived and bought out,Russo isn't good and just got moved for a conditional 7th

I won't dispute that the Wings need more talent at forward in the NHL too but at least there's SOMETHING there you know? it's just a world of difference when you compare it to the defense even before this draft

idk guess i just disagree a bit. Fun thing with prospects is nobody knows what will be the case til time shows. 20th overall, 36th overall, and 53rd overall are all good enough picks to have a legitimate shot of providing a top end dman.
Guys like letang (62nd), keith (54th) even weird forward turned dman byfuglin (245th) show high quality players can be found later than all 3 of our selections were taken. Not saying i think our guys will all hit that level, but optimist in me hopes they do.

Course none of this will matter because we will re-sign green and then have the same shitty defense as last year for the next couple of years locked down.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Hicketts - AHL player
Hronek - 3/4 guy
Cholowski - 3/4 guy
Lindstrom - 5/6 guy
Sulak - 5/6 guy
Saarijarvi - AHL player

if no prospects ever outperform expectations, you're essentially doomed to draft top 10 for a decade+. Even that might not be enough considering slam-dunk #1-#2D prospects are extremely rare.

All you can hope for is that you find some guys that continue to get better and better and eventually break their imaginary "ceiling" and become something better. I mean.. all it really takes is for Hicketts to have a good camp and make the Wings and bam, he's exceeded the ceiling you put on him. I don't see what limits Lindstrom to #5D at this point, when he's just 19 and had a season good enough that he's getting loaned to one of the best SHL teams (with a great track record of developing talent). Hronek's rookie AHL season was better than Kronwalls, why can't Hronek keep improving to become more than a #3? Etc.

No great defense in the league was built on guys simply becoming what they were expected to become when they were drafted.

 

[Dotter]

Who is that in the black jumpsuit running the drill with him? Whoever it is, they still got it.

Horcof

 

[Claypool]

And now I understand why some fans were fine with taking 3 forwards with the first 4 picks. They rate our defensive prospects a helluva lot higher than I do.

Hicketts - AHL player
Hronek - 3/4 guy
Cholowski - 3/4 guy
Lindstrom - 5/6 guy
Sulak - 5/6 guy
Saarijarvi - AHL player

Now all these are guesses. Any of these players could outperform my predictions (or underperform them, I suppose). But statistically, we should expect at least some of them to never really pan out, because that's just the nature of NHL prospects.

Fingers crossed that at least a couple blue liners work their way into the top 10 for 2019.

Who cares. This team will be bad for at least another five years. Probably even longer.

Many people here desperately wanted a rebuild and they got one. Now we’re already sick of losing? The fact they haven’t drafted a defenseman with #1 potential in the last two years is meaningless. There’s going to be plenty of time to rebuild the defense through the draft and trades over the next decade.

Hello? This team doesn’t even have a future starting goaltender in the system. If Larkin doesn’t keep improving they’re going to be short a #1 center, too. Why is everyone so hung up on the defense? This team needs talent at every position.

 

[Frk It]

And now I understand why some fans were fine with taking 3 forwards with the first 4 picks. They rate our defensive prospects a helluva lot higher than I do.

Hicketts - AHL player
Hronek - 3/4 guy
Cholowski - 3/4 guy
Lindstrom - 5/6 guy
Sulak - 5/6 guy
Saarijarvi - AHL player

Now all these are guesses. Any of these players could outperform my predictions (or underperform them, I suppose). But statistically, we should expect at least some of them to never really pan out, because that's just the nature of NHL prospects.

Fingers crossed that at least a couple blue liners work their way into the top 10 for 2019.

We need a top 5 or top 10 guy to push down everyone on their side, and I think we will be OK.

Byram is the top D next year, he is a LD and he is a good one. If we take him then our future left side looks like:

Byram
Cholowski
McIsac/Kotkansalo

That would be pretty damn good.

Not exactly sure who the top RD will end up being, but I like York and Helleson on the USNTP team.

York/Helleson
Hronek
Lindstrom

So even if your projections are right, we get 1 blue chip guy to push everyone down, and things start to fall in place.

 

[jkutswings]

We need a top 5 or top 10 guy to push down everyone on their side, and I think we will be OK.

Byram is the top D next year, he is a LD and he is a good one. If we take him then our future left side looks like:

Byram
Cholowski
McIsac/Kotkansalo

That would be pretty damn good.

Not exactly sure who the top RD will end up being, but I like York and Helleson on the USNTP team.

York/Helleson
Hronek
Lindstrom

So even if your projections are right, we get 1 blue chip guy to push everyone down, and things start to fall in place.

Agreed.

I just get nervous when people start saying that the defense is in good shape for the future. Fans said the same thing when the fantastic prospects of Sproul and Kindl were on their way. (And while I acknowledge that guys like Cholowski and Hronek definitely have better pedigrees than them, it's still a numbers game, and expecting every prospect that's currently tracking well to continue to do so isn't very realistic.)

That, and when fans make it sound very casual that Detroit will just trade an extra forward or two for a defenseman down the road...well, I'm sure that Edmonton loved all their forward prospects up to and including the point where they dealt Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson. I definitely think Holland has been a lot better in his recent trades that Chiarelli has, but assuming everything will come up roses by continuing to use all the best picks on forwards has its own set of risks.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Agreed.

I just get nervous when people start saying that the defense is in good shape for the future. Fans said the same thing when the fantastic prospects of Sproul and Kindl were on their way. (And while I acknowledge that guys like Cholowski and Hronek definitely have better pedigrees than them, it's still a numbers game, and expecting every prospect that's currently tracking well to continue to do so isn't very realistic.)

That, and when fans make it sound very casual that Detroit will just trade an extra forward or two for a defenseman down the road...well, I'm sure that Edmonton loved all their forward prospects up to and including the point where they dealt Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson. I definitely think Holland has been a lot better in his recent trades that Chiarelli has, but the point is that assuming everything will come up roses by continuing to use all the best picks on forwards has its own set of risks.

Has anybody actually said that the D is in good shape for the future? Or are they saying that our D prospect pool is in better shape than the F pool? I mean before the draft we had Rasmussen as the only prospect looking like a top 6 guy.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

Who cares. This team will be bad for at least another five years. Probably even longer.

Many people here desperately wanted a rebuild and they got one. Now we’re already sick of losing?

I really think this is a an exaggeration. Things can change quickly in the new NHL. If we get a lottery pick once in the next two years, we're back in the playoffs by the end of it imo. Now none of us know this, but 5 years seems like the worst case scenario

 

[shanman]

Agreed.

I just get nervous when people start saying that the defense is in good shape for the future. Fans said the same thing when the fantastic prospects of Sproul and Kindl were on their way. (And while I acknowledge that guys like Cholowski and Hronek definitely have better pedigrees than them, it's still a numbers game, and expecting every prospect that's currently tracking well to continue to do so isn't very realistic.)

That, and when fans make it sound very casual that Detroit will just trade an extra forward or two for a defenseman down the road...well, I'm sure that Edmonton loved all their forward prospects up to and including the point where they dealt Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson. I definitely think Holland has been a lot better in his recent trades that Chiarelli has, but assuming everything will come up roses by continuing to use all the best picks on forwards has its own set of risks.

think there is a definite balancing act, but one also can't overlook all our current top defensive prospects due to our failure before. As i said, letang and keith were picked in slots behind all 3 of our "top" defensive prospects, and they have a healthy amount of cups between them haha.

Seems we have gotten a bit off topic though as a whole with this thread, so to bring it back in while i know we need top defense, the one realistic guy im glad we got instead of that is zadina. Def think tkachuk would have been a very polarizing pick. Instead, think about 90 percent at least are good with this choice that we made vs 50/50 at best.

 

[shanman]

I really think this is a an exaggeration. Things can change quickly in the new NHL. If we get a lottery pick once in the next two years, we're back in the playoffs by the end of it imo. Now none of us know this, but 5 years seems like the worst case scenario

exactly. People dismiss colorado going from shit to playoffs because one of their forwards had a "career year". Isn't that the point though? Just takes a player going off to sometimes lift a team. I think next year we are prob a bottom 5 team, but really the year after that could see us at least competing for a playoff spot considering half the league makes it in the playoffs each season. Cup contender is a different matter yes.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

exactly. People dismiss colorado going from **** to playoffs because one of their forwards had a "career year". Isn't that the point though? Just takes a player going off to sometimes lift a team. I think next year we are prob a bottom 5 team, but really the year after that could see us at least competing for a playoff spot considering half the league makes it in the playoffs each season. Cup contender is a different matter yes.

I think the Wings have a much better collection of young talent than the Leafs did before they got Matthews. One Jack Hughes or Lafreineie and a few reasonable contracts to replace the expiring ones and I think we get good again fast. Ideal situation obviously, but in no way impossible

 

[FunkyColdZadina]

Everyine talks about Vegas but Washington's defense might be something to look at emulating going forward. Yes all 4 of their top guys would likely be our best defenseman, but they're also a far cry from being a stud #1 like Doughty or prime Keith or prime Chara.

What they do have going for them, however, is the fact that they're all good puck-movers. Carlsson is the best of the bunch with the puck on his stick and is a legit #1, Orlov can skate the puck and make a play in the neutral zone, and Niskanen and Kempny make tape to tape breakout passes. None of them (at least in this past playoffs) showed much panic in the face of a forecheck which resulted in a controlled zone exit more often than not. They seldom gave up quality second chance opportunities where the whole line scrambles to clear and and that drastically cut down the time they spent playing defense in their own zone and increased their puck possession.

Maybe we have some of those pieces already but we still need to find that Carlsson type that can handle the duties of the #1 and not drown.

 

[jkutswings]

Everyine talks about Vegas but Washington's defense might be something to look at emulating going forward. Yes all 4 of their top guys would likely be our best defenseman, but they're also a far cry from being a stud #1 like Doughty or prime Keith or prime Chara.

What they do have going for them, however, is the fact that they're all good puck-movers. Carlsson is the best of the bunch with the puck on his stick and is a legit #1, Orlov can skate the puck and make a play in the neutral zone, and Niskanen and Kempny make tape to tape breakout passes. None of them (at least in this past playoffs) showed much panic in the face of a forecheck which resulted in a controlled zone exit more often than not. They seldom gave up quality second chance opportunities where the whole line scrambles to clear and and that drastically cut down the time they spent playing defense in their own zone and increased their puck possession.

Maybe we have some of those pieces already but we still need to find that Carlsson type that can handle the duties of the #1 and not drown.

Again, I can understand taking Zadina, but oh, the irony in looking for a Carlson:

https://www.tsn.ca/evan-bouchard-defence-1.1085789

Craig Button's Analysis

"The heady 6-foot-2 blueliner is arguably the best passer in the game. Long bombs, short outlets to get the attack started, he can do it all. " - Bob McKenzie

Projection: Top 2 Two-Way Defenceman

Comparable: John Carlson

 

[shanman]

Again, I can understand taking Zadina, but oh, the irony in looking for a Carlson:

https://www.tsn.ca/evan-bouchard-defence-1.1085789

Craig Button's Analysis

"The heady 6-foot-2 blueliner is arguably the best passer in the game. Long bombs, short outlets to get the attack started, he can do it all. " - Bob McKenzie

Projection: Top 2 Two-Way Defenceman

Comparable: John Carlson

yeah bit funny. I believe next year we get that top D prospect. Doubt we win the lottery for hughes, but think we are in prime spot to get one of the top 2-3 d prospects in the draft. Would be interesting if we did win lottery though. Id take hughes, then hopefully package the late first from nyquist and all our 2nds to get as high as possible for our top d prospect haha.

 

[FunkyColdZadina]

Again, I can understand taking Zadina, but oh, the irony in looking for a Carlson:

https://www.tsn.ca/evan-bouchard-defence-1.1085789

Craig Button's Analysis

"The heady 6-foot-2 blueliner is arguably the best passer in the game. Long bombs, short outlets to get the attack started, he can do it all. " - Bob McKenzie

Projection: Top 2 Two-Way Defenceman

Comparable: John Carlson

Bouchard was actually the guy I wanted going into the draft. Least I got a username out of it at the end of the day

 

[newfy]

I think the Wings have a much better collection of young talent than the Leafs did before they got Matthews. One Jack Hughes or Lafreineie and a few reasonable contracts to replace the expiring ones and I think we get good again fast. Ideal situation obviously, but in no way impossible

I think Larkin is better than Nylander (very close) and Zadina is a Marner calibre prospect (still needs to pan out though). Guys like Mantha give Detroit the depth advantage but the wings really need a Dman. The Leafs had Rielly which makes them hard to compare

 

[JoesuffP]

Agreed.

I just get nervous when people start saying that the defense is in good shape for the future. Fans said the same thing when the fantastic prospects of Sproul and Kindl were on their way. (And while I acknowledge that guys like Cholowski and Hronek definitely have better pedigrees than them, it's still a numbers game, and expecting every prospect that's currently tracking well to continue to do so isn't very realistic.)

That, and when fans make it sound very casual that Detroit will just trade an extra forward or two for a defenseman down the road...well, I'm sure that Edmonton loved all their forward prospects up to and including the point where they dealt Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson. I definitely think Holland has been a lot better in his recent trades that Chiarelli has, but assuming everything will come up roses by continuing to use all the best picks on forwards has its own set of risks.

The Hall/Larsson trade is one of the worst trades ever made so that’s a clear outlier.. How about that reasonable Dougie Hamilton trade about a week ago? Karlsson being shopped currently? Teams get in cap trouble, players become unhappy. Number #1 D get moved. Once the Wings actually have assets Holland would be all over these deals. Drafting and developing and hoping is all they can do in the meantime.

I see people’s frustration with the team is basically differing opinions in player development. A lot here want young players thrown into the NHL whether they’re ready or not and they will learn on the fly. Management doesn’t want it that way and I tend to agree to an extent. It’s frustrating but the Wings have never ruined a career by developing them too slowly

 

[KJoe88]

I believe people are going to be disappointed come the draft next year.

We’re going to suck again this year, but imo not as bad. Or at least not as lucky as getting basically a top three talent.

 

[Henkka]

I believe people are going to be disappointed come the draft next year.

We’re going to suck again this year, but imo not as bad. Or at least not as lucky as getting basically a top three talent.

We could be better at next season, like 7th worse and win the lottery and draft Jack Hughes.

Nothing in quaranteed.

 

[KJoe88]

We could be better at next season, like 7th worse and win the lottery and draft Jack Hughes.

Nothing in quaranteed.

True.

I just think we may have used up our luck with Zadina and Veleno

And Larkin and company will continue to improve

 

[Hen Kolland]

True.

I just think we may have used up our luck with Zadina and Veleno

And Larkin and company will continue to improve

Does your opinion change at all with how the roster plays out?

What if Zadina-Ras-Svech-Hronek-Cholowski all earn starting roles?
What if Zetterberg retires and is replaced with Filpulla?
What if Nyquist and AA are traded?

There are so many ways this team can play out over the next few months that will dictate what they are in the coming season. IF we get seamless transitions from some rookies, IF the pre-existing young core all continue to take steps forward, IF we are able to still get some production out of players like Daley, Zetterberg, Green (assuming he's signing), Nielsen, Nyquist....IF all those things happen, I can see this team making a run at the 8 seed (unfortunately). But that is a hell of a lot of IFs to have play out; even if we are an improved team, we are still likely in the bottom third of the league.

 

[jkutswings]

Does your opinion change at all with how the roster plays out?

What if Zadina-Ras-Svech-Hronek-Cholowski all earn starting roles?
What if Zetterberg retires and is replaced with Filpulla?
What if Nyquist and AA are traded?

There are so many ways this team can play out over the next few months that will dictate what they are in the coming season. IF we get seamless transitions from some rookies, IF the pre-existing young core all continue to take steps forward, IF we are able to still get some production out of players like Daley, Zetterberg, Green (assuming he's signing), Nielsen, Nyquist....IF all those things happen, I can see this team making a run at the 8 seed (unfortunately). But that is a hell of a lot of IFs to have play out; even if we are an improved team, we are still likely in the bottom third of the league.

Here's to hoping all those guys start to pan out...in another year or two, after a couple more top 5ish picks.