Prospect Info: At 24th Overall the Jets Select Kristian Vesalainen

[Whileee]

This guy is good but I'm still peeved off that Chevy gave up an earlier pick to Vegas.

Not many, if any, picked from #13_24 that I'd prefer at this point.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Burning ELC is certainly a concern, but if the Jets are willing to burn a 1st and Foley to add a player of Stastny's calibre then it may be worth burning 1 year of an ELC to add a player like Vesa. The best part is that it takes 9 games to burn 1 year so he could conveiably get an 8 game tryout before the Jets have to commit. If he comes as advertised then why not go all in this year?

Because stas is on the second line and completes Laine and Ehlers vesa as a 4th liner is not worth it. He does not pk. I wouldn't do it and I don't think mo will either. Don't really have anything else to say on the topic.

 

[mazmin]

Because stas is on the second line and completes Laine and Ehlers vesa as a 4th liner is not worth it. He does not pk. I wouldn't do it and I don't think mo will either. Don't really have anything else to say on the topic.

I feel like icing the best team possible should be the priority and he may look good on 3rd line with Perreault and Little or on the 4th with Armia and Lowry (among other options). But you'll probably end up being right as PMo seems pretty loyal and won't have a problem playing the guys he's trusted all year long.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I feel like icing the best team possible should be the priority and he may look good on 3rd line with Perreault and Little or on the 4th with Armia and Lowry (among other options). But you'll probably end up being right as PMo seems pretty loyal and won't have a problem playing the guys he's trusted all year long.

Ahh. That's where I think your wrong the goal isn't to build a winning season but a winning franchise. I'm not so sold on a guy I've never seen play NHL hockey. Also who knows if he has chemistry I'm against messing that up in the playoffs especially since we look so dominant. In the next few years jets will have to make tough decisions. An extra cheap year with Ves will make a huge difference.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

Well, nothing to play in Finland this season. Moose to start next one I expect.

Next season is what i was talking about all this time..

 

[Festinator]

The goal.

3 Years ago I barely knew Finland existed and now I manage their national team on FIFA 18.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

3 Years ago I barely knew Finland existed and now I manage their national team on FIFA 18.

FIFA, the only time the Finnish national soccer team can be worth a damn.

 

[heilongjetsfan]

I just saw this photo of Vesalainen from the WJC and noticed a strangely familiar face

THIS he'll wear a suit for.

 

[heilongjetsfan]

Don't forget O'Vesalainen.

I can only like this comment once, so I'm going to like all your comments from here on out regardless of what they say or whether or not I've actually read them.

 

[Lempo]

Burning ELC is certainly a concern, but if the Jets are willing to burn a 1st and Foley to add a player of Stastny's calibre then it may be worth burning 1 year of an ELC to add a player like Vesa. The best part is that it takes 9 games to burn 1 year so he could conveiably get an 8 game tryout before the Jets have to commit. If he comes as advertised then why not go all in this year?

It takes 10 games to burn a year off ELC. Not to pick nits, but he could play 9 games.

CBA 9.1(d)(i): "In the event that an 18 year old or 19 year old Player signs an SPC with a Club but does not play at least ten (10) NHL Games in the first season under that SPC, the term of his SPC and his number of years in the Entry Level System shall be extended for a period of one (1) year" [doesn't apply to 19 y.o. late birthday guys]

To be noted, whether he signs it tomorrow or in the summer, his ELC signing age will be 19 (= his age at Sept 15th of the calendar year of signing) and he thusly will be eligible only for one Slide year. Jets wasting it this spring would be unwise.

We were discussing a while back about shenanigans of him signing an AHL try-out for the spring instead to avoid that when bringing him over to NA for the spring. That obviously means no NHL. Him being a silly Finnboy he may opt for WHC instead in case he's invited.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

So Mortimer should we trade him off to Calgary to get defensive prospects?

Uhhhhh, let me think. No!

 

[STZD]

It takes 10 games to burn a year off ELC. Not to pick nits, but he could play 9 games.

CBA 9.1(d)(i): "In the event that an 18 year old or 19 year old Player signs an SPC with a Club but does not play at least ten (10) NHL Games in the first season under that SPC, the term of his SPC and his number of years in the Entry Level System shall be extended for a period of one (1) year" [doesn't apply to 19 y.o. late birthday guys]

To be noted, whether he signs it tomorrow or in the summer, his ELC signing age will be 19 (= his age at Sept 15th of the calendar year of signing) and he thusly will be eligible only for one Slide year. Jets wasting it this spring would be unwise.

We were discussing a while back about shenanigans of him signing an AHL try-out for the spring instead to avoid that when bringing him over to NA for the spring. That obviously means no NHL. Him being a silly Finnboy he may opt for WHC instead in case he's invited.

Does it matter if they are regular season vs. playoff games? I thought you could slide as long as you had played <10 regular season games

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

Uhhhhh, let me think. No!

I think it should be a maybe.... If Vesalainen can’t crack the Top 6 Forward within 5 seasons is it really worth keeping him and turning him into Armia 2.0 when we could possible acquire a bigger need for the future(LD, RD or maybe even Center). That being said I think he could potentially be a big part(especially if he eventually takes over Wheelers spot on the PP).

 

[Lempo]

Does it matter if they are regular season vs. playoff games? I thought you could slide as long as you had played <10 regular season games

The wording in the CBA says just "NHL games", I'm pretty sure it includes the playoffs games. Would be ridiculous if it didn't.

The Slide option is there only for the youngest of players (~U20), and as the starting point only for the first season under the ELC. But, if (and only if) an 18 y.o. signee Slides the first season, then he will Slide for the second too if he still doesn't play at least 10 NHL games in the second season. Scheifele went this route and spent the maximum of five years in the entry-level system.

The Euro U20 kids under contract to an IIHF team who sign an NHL ELC (excluding the first round draftees) have the extra consideration on top of that though (courtesy of the NHL/IIHF transfer agreement) that if they don't make it to the NHL roster (and thusly would be Loaned to AHL), the IIHF team has the option to demand him be returned to play his contract for the IIHF team for the duration of the Loan. He would slide there then and could be called up from there.

Vesalainen though is a first rounder and not under contract after this season so it doesn't apply to him. I don't know if some kid might have the gall to speed up his ELC negotiations by entertaining an IIHF contract offer, but Vesalainen can't do that.

There's obviously always the option for the player to demand an European Assignment clause into his SPC that allows him to seek employment overseas in case he's Loaned to AHL, much to the similar effect from the NHL team's point of view. Beware KHL guy bearing one.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

I'm trying to figure out how often I can remind the board that I had picked him as a favorite for the Jets to select at #13 before the draft. Probably too much already, right?

Never to much!
You cannot say “I told you so” without saying “ I told you so!”

Funny, I felt the Jets were interested in Stanley with their extra first round pick, but no one cares for me to remind them of that.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Uhhhhh, let me think. No!

It's interesting you were so keen to trade Appleton and Connor for d prospects from Calgary and not Ves.

 

[nobody important]

I can only like this comment once, so I'm going to like all your comments from here on out regardless of what they say or whether or not I've actually read them.

This just seems like a sensible approach for all posters to take.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Does it matter if they are regular season vs. playoff games? I thought you could slide as long as you had played <10 regular season games

No it doesn't matter.The ten game rule is either regular season or playoff or a combination of both.

 

[DK59]

I'm trying to figure out how often I can remind the board that I had picked him as a favorite for the Jets to select at #13 before the draft. Probably too much already, right?

I think this draft class is somewhat lacking in the true high end star power of a number of drafts we have seen but it is becoming increasingly apparent the amount of depth that was present throughout the first round. Taking him at 13 would have been entirely justified in my view and has been proven out by the development trajectory he continues to show. At the time I favoured drafting either a d-man or a centre but I was happy getting Vesalainen where we did and I would also have been onboard with taking him at 13 given that big forwards with skill are not easy to find.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think it should be a maybe.... If Vesalainen can’t crack the Top 6 Forward within 5 seasons is it really worth keeping him and turning him into Armia 2.0 when we could possible acquire a bigger need for the future(LD, RD or maybe even Center). That being said I think he could potentially be a big part(especially if he eventually takes over Wheelers spot on the PP).

I wouldn't even consider it at this time - unless somebody made a highly unlikely huge offer for him. 1)His upside is still too unknown. I would want a better idea of his true value before trading him. 2)He still hasn't even started his ELC. We can get up to 3 cheap years in the NHL out of him.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

It's interesting you were so keen to trade Appleton and Connor for d prospects from Calgary and not Ves.

I never suggested trading Connor to Calgary for D prospects.

Appleton is 22, K Ves is 18. We have a much better picture of what we have in Appleton. IMO, he is a match for some of Flames D prospects, or very close to it. Vesa has a much higher ceiling. Although there is no guarantee he will reach it, he looks very promising so far.

In ranking our prospects, would you consider Appleton and Vesalainen equal?

 

[Adam da bomb]

I never suggested trading Connor to Calgary for D prospects.

Appleton is 22, K Ves is 18. We have a much better picture of what we have in Appleton. IMO, he is a match for some of Flames D prospects, or very close to it. Vesa has a much higher ceiling. Although there is no guarantee he will reach it, he looks very promising so far.

In ranking our prospects, would you consider Appleton and Vesalainen equal?

So Appleton is a late bloomer. You suggested trading Connor for kylington. I think dominating the ahl where there are more future Nhlers is harder than the Liiga. I don't see these flames getting rookie of the year.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

So Appleton is a late bloomer. You suggested trading Connor for kylington. I think dominating the ahl where there are more future Nhlers is harder than the Liiga. I don't see these flames getting rookie of the year.

No - I absolutely did not suggest trading Connor for Kylington. I suggested trading him to Edm for a top 5 pick in order to draft a top 6 centre. I was persuaded that it wouldn't be good value because there would not be a C prospect of high enough value available at that spot. The value just wasn't there. I would not have been getting enough for Connor. So, if #5 OA was not worth Connor why would I suggest trading him for a former #60 OA who has not performed substantially above his draft position?

I could argue about the respective play of Appleton in the AHL and KV in Liiga but why bother? That is not the point. The point is the difference in ages more than anything else. At 18 Vesa is still on a steep improvement curve. At 22 Appleton is much closer to his peak and on a shallow improvement curve. Even as a late bloomer - if he is actually a late bloomer.

Still in their teens, even 1 year difference in age is significant. Four is huge. KV is 14 mos older than Laine and is exceeding Laine's production but no one is saying he is going to exceed Laine in the NHL. Those 14 months are the reason.

 

[Aavco Cup]

THN actually has k- Ves falling in a re-draft. IIRC this survey was done immediately after the WJHC so there is probably some tournament bias involved.

2017 NHL draft do-over: Panel of scouts, execs and GMs redo the first round | The Hockey News


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Thomas + 11
Samberg + 11
Formenton +14
Jonathon Davidson +135
Ian Mitchell +21

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Never to much!
You cannot say “I told you so” without saying “ I told you so!”

Funny, I felt the Jets were interested in Stanley with their extra first round pick, but no one cares for me to remind them of that.

We all knew it was a possibility. We had it from a source more highly trusted than you (no offence ). We just hoped he (and you also) was wrong. Each pick from about 12 on until 17, I was praying "please take Stanley, please take Stanley". No such luck. Then it was, "please don't take Stanley, please don't take Stanley". So much for the power of prayer.