As of 2021 - is Crosby vs Ovechkin's all-time ranking finalized, or can one still surpass the other?

[bobholly39]

The two main reasons why I'm skeptical about Ovechkin are

1) his consistent inability to significantly improve his teams results at 5vs5 post 2011 -- as he visually shifted from an all-around dominating force into an escape-from-coverage sniper with an awful overall game, this is consistent with how the eye-test views Ovechkin past his peak. His on-ice impact in this timeframe is a major negative outlier compared to other players of all-time caliber.

2) his leadership -- this may be just narratives or not, but the issues like the controller disconnected sequence in a playoff game, and the over-emphasis that the entire franchise has put on Ovechkin's individual goalscoring achievements. At times it seemed the entire team was there to make Ovechkin's goalscoring possible. How many times has Sidney Crosby chasing 100 points been the focus of the Penguins? Has it ever even been a thing? A captain who puts huge energy on chasing individual milestones and plays defence with a lackluster effort -- is it really all a coincidence that his teams seemingly always broke down in the biggest moments? Maybe it is, but I am skeptical.

Few issues with your 2nd paragraph.

1. The infamous "controller disconnected sequence" is pretty damning for Ovechkin. But if you were to judge all players by their 'worst sequences' - I doubt this even comes across so bad. So - let's not exaggerate its importance - all players, even the very best ones, have plays and sequences and sometimes even full games where they look like crap. I'm pretty sure Crosby had something similar last year.

2. How much of Capital's regular season focus have been on Ovechkin scoring goals vs Crosby scoring 100 points? I don't know per se....but in the grand scheme of things, I don't think it matters. This would only be a negative if it hurts Capitals playoff chances/Ovechkin's own ability come playoffs. Capitals are a top 2 team in the NHL since Ovechkin entered the league (Pens being the other one) - and Ovechkin has usually always done individually very well in playoffs (as opposed to say McDavid - who went all out last year in shortened season and came out flat come playoffs - obviously he redeemed himself this year).

I'd agree with the premise that Crosby > Ovechkin for leadership qualities, and in getting his team/teammates to play in the right way to win in playoffs moreso than Ovechkin has - but I don't think the examples you gave are that great.

 

[ContrarianGoaltender]

I certainly agree I'd take a healthy Crosby over a healthy Ovechkin fairly comfortably, but if Crosby is liable to be out games for the Playoffs and you can count on Ovechkin to be in the lineup, that factors in for me as well.

Has Crosby really been liable to miss playoff games, though? He's only missed 10 postseason games in his career, which is just 5% of the 190 playoff games played by the Penguins since 2006. That's not anything close to an outlier in the context of all-time greats. On a percentage basis, guys like Yzerman or Sundin were about 3x more likely to miss a playoff game, for example.

Or, to present another historical comparable, Bobby Clarke played in 100% of Philadelphia's playoff games during his career, while Phil Esposito played in 95% of his team's playoff games in Chicago, Boston and New York combined. That gives us two contemporary all-time greats with playoff durability rates that exactly match those of Ovi and Sid, yet I've never heard anybody talk about Clarke having a significant edge because of that and I don't expect I ever will.

I'm personally at the extreme end of the curve in terms of not caring about regular season durability, so I understand that others are going to value some things quite differently. I would just point out that if you do think playoff durability is hugely important, at least make sure you are evaluating guys based on their actual playoff games missed and not just extrapolating based on regular season injuries.