As of 2021 - is Crosby vs Ovechkin's all-time ranking finalized, or can one still surpass the other?

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How close are Ovechkin and Crosby in all-time ranking for you?


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The 2008 Wings are the clear best Cup winner post 2005. They were a machine that were not going to be beaten unless Fleury could have stolen two more games. They let the Pens win what should have been their token "Game 3 at home" win then would have finished their business in Game 5 if not for Fleury stealing it in OT.

Crosby was a PPG, 2nd to his linemate Hossa, who were the only Pen forwards to make a significant contribution. His SCF took nothing away from his playoff scoring title, the youngest player ever to do so (I think) and essentially counters any narrative surrounding his 2009 SCF when it was Malkin who kept things going in the SCF while Crosby's production dropped.

That's silly. The 07 Ducks have a great case as the best post-lockout team and could have beaten the 08 Wings if they didn't have an egotistical leader (Nieds) and a beloved head-case (Selanne) sit over half the season.

Besides the point, though. I agree the 08 Wings were a force of nature. The Pens never stood a chance. Crosby was carrying them with Hossa, I agree on that as well.

I'm gonna go down knowing if I want to pick between the two it's going to be Crosby. If his concussions don't happen you can add another Cup to his belt possibly, too.
 
That's silly. The 07 Ducks have a great case as the best post-lockout team and could have beaten the 08 Wings if they didn't have an egotistical leader (Nieds) and a beloved head-case (Selanne) sit over half the season.

Here is how they line up:


Clear better GF and GA for the Wings. An even bigger gap in Shots for and Shots against.
 
One thing that needs to be said about the secondary assists argument - this season, to me, made it clear that the small number of Ovechkin supporters who constantly talk about Crosby recording more secondary assists probably aren't arguing in good faith (as opposed to having a genuine, though probably misguided, opinion on the topic).

One quarter of the way through the season (on November 24th), Ovechkin was, believe it or not, tied for the league lead in secondary assists (with McDavid). I didn't see a single comment on that.

Ovechkin was the league's leading scorer as of December 15th. But he would have fallen behind Draisaitl without secondary assists. Again, I didn't see any comments about that from those who have used secondary assists as an argument against Crosby for years. (Ovechkin ended the year with 17 secondary assists - the 2nd most he's had in a span of 11 years. Is it a coincidence that this was the year that the secondary assists argument dried up?)

To be clear, my position has always been that secondary assists are worth a bit less than goals and primary assists, but the difference is small. If you think secondary assists have minimal value, then apply that consistently. Don't harp on Crosby's secondary assists for a decade, and then ignore it when Ovechkin starts racking them up. It's almost like people are picking and choosing when to make these arguments, depending on whether the numbers favour their favourite player or not.
 
Almost...

I mean, everything requires context. Look at Ovechkin's first (primary) assist today. It's really not a good play...he just grabs a garbled puck from the wall with no pressure and just throws it randomly at the net...it hits Oshie and goes in. The idea that that primary is worth more than someone who skates the puck across two lines and passes it accurately to a linemate who then passes it back door for a goal is an unwell person...
 
Almost...

I mean, everything requires context. Look at Ovechkin's first (primary) assist today. It's really not a good play...he just grabs a garbled puck from the wall with no pressure and just throws it randomly at the net...it hits Oshie and goes in. The idea that that primary is worth more than someone who skates the puck across two lines and passes it accurately to a linemate who then passes it back door for a goal is an unwell person...
If anything, that play emphasizes the importance of throwing the puck towards the net (blindly or not) which is something that Ovechkin hardly gets credit for. How assists are achieved doesn't matter as long as the puck ends up in the back of the net.
 
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"Throwing the puck" by definition isn't a good play. It can work out...like it did yesterday. But emphasizing blind throwing is tactically wrong.

And the "how assists are achieved doesn't matter" line, well, you've been in enough Ovechkin/Crosby threads (including this one) to know that that just isn't true at all for the folks that are on Team Ovechkin...
 
One thing that needs to be said about the secondary assists argument - this season, to me, made it clear that the small number of Ovechkin supporters who constantly talk about Crosby recording more secondary assists probably aren't arguing in good faith (as opposed to having a genuine, though probably misguided, opinion on the topic).

One quarter of the way through the season (on November 24th), Ovechkin was, believe it or not, tied for the league lead in secondary assists (with McDavid). I didn't see a single comment on that.

Ovechkin was the league's leading scorer as of December 15th. But he would have fallen behind Draisaitl without secondary assists. Again, I didn't see any comments about that from those who have used secondary assists as an argument against Crosby for years. (Ovechkin ended the year with 17 secondary assists - the 2nd most he's had in a span of 11 years. Is it a coincidence that this was the year that the secondary assists argument dried up?)

To be clear, my position has always been that secondary assists are worth a bit less than goals and primary assists, but the difference is small. If you think secondary assists have minimal value, then apply that consistently. Don't harp on Crosby's secondary assists for a decade, and then ignore it when Ovechkin starts racking them up. It's almost like people are picking and choosing when to make these arguments, depending on whether the numbers favour their favourite player or not.

Inconsistent you say?

What's next some guys only selectively using R-on R-off or +/- when it suites their agenda?

My word.
 
One thing that needs to be said about the secondary assists argument - this season, to me, made it clear that the small number of Ovechkin supporters who constantly talk about Crosby recording more secondary assists probably aren't arguing in good faith (as opposed to having a genuine, though probably misguided, opinion on the topic).

One quarter of the way through the season (on November 24th), Ovechkin was, believe it or not, tied for the league lead in secondary assists (with McDavid). I didn't see a single comment on that.

Ovechkin was the league's leading scorer as of December 15th. But he would have fallen behind Draisaitl without secondary assists. Again, I didn't see any comments about that from those who have used secondary assists as an argument against Crosby for years. (Ovechkin ended the year with 17 secondary assists - the 2nd most he's had in a span of 11 years. Is it a coincidence that this was the year that the secondary assists argument dried up?)

To be clear, my position has always been that secondary assists are worth a bit less than goals and primary assists, but the difference is small. If you think secondary assists have minimal value, then apply that consistently. Don't harp on Crosby's secondary assists for a decade, and then ignore it when Ovechkin starts racking them up. It's almost like people are picking and choosing when to make these arguments, depending on whether the numbers favour their favourite player or not.

It was pretty impressive how +/- suddenly mattered in one late career season for Crosby and Ovechkin (in those daver threads covering who was ahead after each season) after nearly a decade of it not mattering because... whatever reason excused Ovechkin having a poor +/- that year. Now of course Ovechkin did look more engaged earlier in the year than he had been in years in addition to whatever positive bounces he was enjoying that ended up balancing out, which may mean that a particularly ardent Ovechkin booster that his secondary assists were the result of playing well. But stating that secondary assists can generally be the result of playing well and being engaged, while a dearth of secondary assists can mean that the player is particularly unengaged, would not be palatable.

But anyway, turn all of that off and remember - most Rockets most goals three Harts.
 
Ovechkin will have an edge if he breaks the goals record. Not just for that, but for the records he has/will have broken along the way:
-all time goals (currently #3)
-all time ppg
-all time gwg (currently #2)
-all time points for a lw
-all time goals for a lw
-single season goals for a lw
-all time points for a russian
-all time goals for a russian
-most 50+ goal seasons
-most 40+ goal seasons
-most 30+ goal seasons (currently #2)
-most Richards/goal scoring leads
-oldest player to score 50

The one thing Crosby could do to pull ahead is to stick around long enough to score 2,000 points for #2 all time. He’s a freak like that, so I could see it happening.

Crosby might be a more “rounded” player but numbers/records/awards are what get remembered years later by future generations.
 
"Throwing the puck" by definition isn't a good play. It can work out...like it did yesterday. But emphasizing blind throwing is tactically wrong.

And the "how assists are achieved doesn't matter" line, well, you've been in enough Ovechkin/Crosby threads (including this one) to know that that just isn't true at all for the folks that are on Team Ovechkin...
I mean, it depends on context. When you have players driving towards the net and screening the goalie, is it not beneficial to throw the puck towards the net which could result in a leaky rebound or a random deflection? It happens all the time especially in the playoffs. I'm also not entirely certain that you can completely discount last night's play as merely luck. He does appear to take a quick look up and notices Oshie driving the net. Who's to say he did not place it in his general area where Oshie could have the opportunity to get a stick on it? They run a similar play on the powerplay quite often but it's usually off the stick of Carlson rather than Ovechkin.
 
I get what you're saying. All I'm saying is that just chucking a puck against the grain of a player passing through (he fired it behind Oshie) isn't exactly 4-D chess.

I think really this is it in a nutshell...and he's earned it, right? I mean, he's cashed in for the Capitals franchise in ways that no one could have ever imagined when he was drafted. But the last, what, decade of his career is just so unstructured...he just kind of cruises around on his own metronome and just whatever happens happens...

Either he plays for himself or he's way less hockey intelligent than almost all of the all-time greats this side of Maurice Richard...

Even just to dip into game 3 again...Florida's first goal, there's a puck rolling back and it's more or less a 50/50 puck. Instead of trying to make a play for the puck, Ovechkin dials it down, goes on a wider track, and then tries to really crush Huberdeau...he had no interest in playing the puck, he just wanted to hurt Huberdeau...ok, fine, fair enough...I don't appreciate that as a fan of the game, but I get it, it's a series, you're trying to be intimidating and all that...but he gives the puck battle away in the process, free and clean, and then hits the guy after he gets rid of it...

And then after that, Huberdeau starts skating back up the ice...Ovechkin just kind of hangs out...Huberdeau gets the puck in the NZ and roars down the wing and scores the 1-0 goal. And I'm not even going to chastise Ovechkin for not sticking to that hit, or backchecking or whatever...but that goal doesn't happen if Ovechkin was playing for the puck and doing what the forechecker should do there - which is make the game predictable for the next guy in line. Because he says, "ah, forget the puck" that gives Huberdeau options, and they exercise those options and take a road lead.

I guess my main thing is that a small minority of folks (I'm pretty sure - and hope - it's a small minority) that think Ovechkin is this multi-dimensional or complete player because he hits and there is film of him making a pass...but man, he's not. He's one of the most one-dimensional players in the history of greats...but that one dimension is unstoppable in a way that we may have never seen before...
 
I get what you're saying. All I'm saying is that just chucking a puck against the grain of a player passing through (he fired it behind Oshie) isn't exactly 4-D chess.

I think really this is it in a nutshell...and he's earned it, right? I mean, he's cashed in for the Capitals franchise in ways that no one could have ever imagined when he was drafted. But the last, what, decade of his career is just so unstructured...he just kind of cruises around on his own metronome and just whatever happens happens...

Either he plays for himself or he's way less hockey intelligent than almost all of the all-time greats this side of Maurice Richard...

Even just to dip into game 3 again...Florida's first goal, there's a puck rolling back and it's more or less a 50/50 puck. Instead of trying to make a play for the puck, Ovechkin dials it down, goes on a wider track, and then tries to really crush Huberdeau...he had no interest in playing the puck, he just wanted to hurt Huberdeau...ok, fine, fair enough...I don't appreciate that as a fan of the game, but I get it, it's a series, you're trying to be intimidating and all that...but he gives the puck battle away in the process, free and clean, and then hits the guy after he gets rid of it...

And then after that, Huberdeau starts skating back up the ice...Ovechkin just kind of hangs out...Huberdeau gets the puck in the NZ and roars down the wing and scores the 1-0 goal. And I'm not even going to chastise Ovechkin for not sticking to that hit, or backchecking or whatever...but that goal doesn't happen if Ovechkin was playing for the puck and doing what the forechecker should do there - which is make the game predictable for the next guy in line. Because he says, "ah, forget the puck" that gives Huberdeau options, and they exercise those options and take a road lead.

I guess my main thing is that a small minority of folks (I'm pretty sure - and hope - it's a small minority) that think Ovechkin is this multi-dimensional or complete player because he hits and there is film of him making a pass...but man, he's not. He's one of the most one-dimensional players in the history of greats...but that one dimension is unstoppable in a way that we may have never seen before...
That's certainly one perspective on that play. In the post-game press conference, Ovechkin was being praised for making that very play by his head coach and his teammates. They viewed it as "the big man setting the tone for the rest of his team". I do agree that he sort of sold himself out on that specific play to make the big hit. However, in the greater scheme of things, that play seemingly energized his team and the building and he set an example that the rest of the team followed.

I think it ultimately comes down to where you're at. As a viewer, it doesn't seem like the most intelligent play to make and maybe he prevents a goal by sitting back at the blueline. As the coach or a player on Ovechkin's team, you look to him for guidance and if you see him putting his body on the line, you go out the next shift and make sure you're battling just as hard because that is the way they see it in their eyes.
 
Yeah, I mean, I doubt Ovechkin's coach is going to out and say anything negative about his game...really at any point. He had a big hit before that (same shift maybe?), I wonder if he was referring to that. Because this is just a bad play, and it's the genesis for a goal against. A stick-led play and then you can still finish a guy hard there (and Ovechkin is a human tank, so he certainly can get a hard close off there). If he comes in and takes the angle for the puck, he dislodges the puck, Ovechkin is now a track to go where the puck is going instead of totally changing his angle/skating arc and going perpendicular to the puck, and he has a better shot at keeping Huberdeau out of the play.

But he really just does everything the opposite. Intentionally loses the puck, loses the arc, loses the angle, and ultimately loses the player...and his team loses a tie score, by giving up a road goal in the first 10 minutes, which is typically "untouchable" time for road teams.

So, as a coach and a scout and a fan...it doesn't check off any boxes for me. He could have accomplished everything he wanted and made the right play.

These little details come up - as I've diagramed before - in his neutral zone transition work back when he was absolute horse instead of what he has now, which is some sort of ox man/howitzer hybrid machine...
 
The awards argument in favor of Ovi holds zero water given Crosby had about 2.5 years of his prime wiped out by a head shot and a freak slap shot to the jaw. The former was in no way an accident and holding it against Sid is absurd, especially considering it robbed him of his most dominant season.

Crosby would have likely scored 60+ goals in 2010, easily winning the Rocket, Hart, Ross, and every other award had Steckel not ran his elbow into 87's head and Crosby again, wins the Hart/Ross in 2013 (while also taking one away from Ovi) had he not taken a slap shot 10 feet wide of the net (thanks Orpik) about a month before the end of that campaign. A campaign in which it took the field almost the entire final month to catch and pass Sid in points. That's how far ahead of everyone 87 was before a freak injury which rarely happens as it were.

So right there you have Hart #3 and #4 for 87 + another 2 AR's which puts him at 4. And it's not remotely controversial to project those awards given how much better he was in 2010 and 2013 vs the field. He played half and roughly 3/4 of those 2 seasons so we're not talking a small sample size in either case. And he was in the absolute prime of his career so trying to project a poor half or quarter of a year would be a stretch to say the least.

Don't talk to me about AS nods either, given the talent disparity (and games missed for Sid) between LW and C over the last 17 seasons. How many HOF caliber wingers has Ovi been fighting with for AS votes since 2005?

The ONLY legitimate argument that Ovi has is goals, which is lame anyway given we're just going by a raw # and not taking into account shot volume vs his peers or the absurd tilt in favor of goals vs someone like Sid who's been the best at both goal scoring and play making in the NHL. Ovi is incredibly goal dependent to produce points. He's not a well rounded offensive threat. Never has been.

And durability. That's it. It's not enough. Literally every other aspect of the game is comfortably in Sid's favor today.

Sid's easily the better all around player. Non sane person argues this.

He's easily the better point producer on a per game basis (I mean he's literally been a PPG or better player every single year from the time he entered the league and just put up 84 in 69 pushing 35 years of age). 17 seasons at that rate is absurd, when you consider the names above him. Gretzky. That's it. He needs 2 more seasons to equal Wayne and from the looks of it, should have a very real chance of doing so. Sure, a couple of those years were abbreviated significantly, but again, on a per game basis, there isn't a single abbreviated year you can point to and go, yeah, Sid surely wasn't finishing with 82+ in 82 games.

He's easily the better postseason player (he's nearing Jagr for 5th all time in playoff points, at 197 currently, and is 3rd all time in multi point playoff games at 66 (nearly double Ovi's total) behind only Gretzky and Messier and has a decent shot at passing the latter for 2nd all time), not to mention vastly more accomplished on the international stage despite having far fewer tournaments to his name.

3 Cups on 4 trips, back to back titles, back to back Smythe's, etc, etc. He's led the playoffs in goals, in assists, in points, etc, etc.

I don't care if Ovechkin scores 900+ goals. He's going to break Gretzky's record because he legitimately cares about individual awards and will stick around until he passes 99, which is a stark contrast to Sid's motivation in this game. It's an incredible stat but it's not enough to put him over Crosby. A single stat cannot give you the crown in a robust overview between 2 players.

At the end of the day, all of these discussions won't move the needle for most. Washington people, nearly across the board will vote Ovi. Same goes for Pittsburgh fans in regards to Sid. The difference is the majority of neutral fans will give the nod to Sid based largely on content above this paragraph and thread on the whole.
 
The awards argument in favor of Ovi holds zero water given Crosby had about 2.5 years of his prime wiped out by a head shot and a freak slap shot to the jaw. The former was in no way an accident and holding it against Sid is absurd, especially considering it robbed him of his most dominant season.

Crosby would have likely scored 60+ goals in 2010, easily winning the Rocket, Hart, Ross, and every other award had Steckel not ran his elbow into 87's head and Crosby again, wins the Hart/Ross in 2013 (while also taking one away from Ovi) had he not taken a slap shot 10 feet wide of the net (thanks Orpik) about a month before the end of that campaign. A campaign in which it took the field almost the entire final month to catch and pass Sid in points. That's how far ahead of everyone 87 was before a freak injury which rarely happens as it were.

So right there you have Hart #3 and #4 for 87 + another 2 AR's which puts him at 4. And it's not remotely controversial to project those awards given how much better he was in 2010 and 2013 vs the field. He played half and roughly 3/4 of those 2 seasons so we're not talking a small sample size in either case. And he was in the absolute prime of his career so trying to project a poor half or quarter of a year would be a stretch to say the least.

Don't talk to me about AS nods either, given the talent disparity (and games missed for Sid) between LW and C over the last 17 seasons. How many HOF caliber wingers has Ovi been fighting with for AS votes since 2005?

The ONLY legitimate argument that Ovi has is goals, which is lame anyway given we're just going by a raw # and not taking into account shot volume vs his peers or the absurd tilt in favor of goals vs someone like Sid who's been the best at both goal scoring and play making in the NHL. Ovi is incredibly goal dependent to produce points. He's not a well rounded offensive threat. Never has been.

And durability. That's it. It's not enough. Literally every other aspect of the game is comfortably in Sid's favor today.

Sid's easily the better all around player. Non sane person argues this.

He's easily the better point producer on a per game basis (I mean he's literally been a PPG or better player every single year from the time he entered the league and just put up 84 in 69 pushing 35 years of age). 17 seasons at that rate is absurd, when you consider the names above him. Gretzky. That's it. He needs 2 more seasons to equal Wayne and from the looks of it, should have a very real chance of doing so. Sure, a couple of those years were abbreviated significantly, but again, on a per game basis, there isn't a single abbreviated year you can point to and go, yeah, Sid surely wasn't finishing with 82+ in 82 games.

He's easily the better postseason player (he's nearing Jagr for 5th all time in playoff points, at 197 currently, and is 3rd all time in multi point playoff games at 66 (nearly double Ovi's total) behind only Gretzky and Messier and has a decent shot at passing the latter for 2nd all time), not to mention vastly more accomplished on the international stage despite having far fewer tournaments to his name.

3 Cups on 4 trips, back to back titles, back to back Smythe's, etc, etc. He's led the playoffs in goals, in assists, in points, etc, etc.

I don't care if Ovechkin scores 900+ goals. He's going to break Gretzky's record because he legitimately cares about individual awards and will stick around until he passes 99, which is a stark contrast to Sid's motivation in this game. It's an incredible stat but it's not enough to put him over Crosby. A single stat cannot give you the crown in a robust overview between 2 players.

At the end of the day, all of these discussions won't move the needle for most. Washington people, nearly across the board will vote Ovi. Same goes for Pittsburgh fans in regards to Sid. The difference is the majority of neutral fans will give the nod to Sid based largely on content above this paragraph and thread on the whole.
Yes sure, Crosby is the greatest player " if this and that". A better postseason performer than Mario Lemieux, of course, too.

Ovechkin is just a goal-scoring bum who's miraculously top 3 all time. That's because of his durability which has zero importance in hockey.
 
Yes sure, Crosby is the greatest player " if this and that". A better postseason performer than Mario Lemieux, of course, too.

Ovechkin is just a goal-scoring bum who's miraculously top 3 all time. That's because of his durability which has zero importance in hockey.

Incredible rebuttal and contribution.
 
Crosby might be a more “rounded” player but numbers/records/awards are what get remembered years later by future generations.

The OP isn't asking who you think casual fans will favour in 50 years time, it is asking for your opinion.

Crosby has been the more "rounded" player offensively, and ultimately the more effective player offensively, which has lead to him being only outshined by Howe and Wayne in elite longevity. His ability to carry a line offensively has been indisputably superior to Ovechkin and helped his team to greater team success.

Now you can throw Crosby's more "rounded" all around game into the mix.
 
Yeah, I mean, I doubt Ovechkin's coach is going to out and say anything negative about his game...really at any point. He had a big hit before that (same shift maybe?), I wonder if he was referring to that. Because this is just a bad play, and it's the genesis for a goal against. A stick-led play and then you can still finish a guy hard there (and Ovechkin is a human tank, so he certainly can get a hard close off there). If he comes in and takes the angle for the puck, he dislodges the puck, Ovechkin is now a track to go where the puck is going instead of totally changing his angle/skating arc and going perpendicular to the puck, and he has a better shot at keeping Huberdeau out of the play.

But he really just does everything the opposite. Intentionally loses the puck, loses the arc, loses the angle, and ultimately loses the player...and his team loses a tie score, by giving up a road goal in the first 10 minutes, which is typically "untouchable" time for road teams.

So, as a coach and a scout and a fan...it doesn't check off any boxes for me. He could have accomplished everything he wanted and made the right play.

These little details come up - as I've diagramed before - in his neutral zone transition work back when he was absolute horse instead of what he has now, which is some sort of ox man/howitzer hybrid machine...

I have always looked at OV being an instinctual player that as pointed out, contributes best when he isn't held to any significant defensive responsibility but has free reign to hit every time he sees a chance. There is a risk/reward to that. If that happened in a one goal game with two minutes left, then OV should be called out for making the wrong play.

It should be no surprise that when OV showed a real commitment to solid 2-way play in 2018, the Caps won the Cup.
 
The ability to drive a line for 17 years regardless of said linemates is another factor easily in favor of Crosby IMO.

Ovechkin post 2010 was more reliant on a facilitator to produce his goal scoring numbers and over the course of their respective careers, Ovi has enjoyed more consistent talent at ES. We can get into the reasons why his game shifted (it wasn't age) however I have always been more fond of historical figures that were balanced offensively vs those who are bent heavily in a single direction.

I loathe the entire secondary assist knock as a way to bring Crosby artificially down because it asserts that assists aren't created equal while in turn valuing all goals on equal footing, which is absurd.

One, outside of most unassisted goals, a goal scorer is reliant on another player to produce a pass or shot (rebound) that results in a goal scoring opportunity.

You can say, "oh well, Sid has x number of secondary assists and some of those were of little value to the subsequent goal scored by whomever". But you damn well better stand up and make the same claim about a significant number of goals scored only because the facilitator made an incredible pass or dig out of a corner to create a goal scoring opportunity for someone like Ovechkin. How many tap in (easy) goals has Ovi scored over the last 17 years that were the result of hard work or elite vision by another player? I'd wager it's a fairly sizable number.

Not all goals are created equal just as assists aren't.

The Midnight Judges of the world conveniently gloss over that hard reality.

And while some won't play this game, I absolutely take into account that a player is statistically more likely to score goals when they out shoot their peers, sometimes by large margins. And not all shots are created equal or of positive value to a team. How many hundreds of times has Ovechkin ripped a shot that went 5 feet off net, had little chance of creating a goal while in turn creating possession for the other team. Nobody wants to discuss that nuance. I don't buy the "all shots are good shots" argument. It's lazy analysis if you watch a ton of hockey as I do.

The only reason this debate exists is Crosby has, to a large extent missed time due to at best a borderline cheap shot that robbed him of essentially 2 years in his early/mid 20's when he was capable of putting up 60 and 120+ in a single year. That missed time wasn't a broken ankle battling for a puck in a corner or absorbing a legitimate check when in possession of the puck.

And at the end of the day I still have Ovechkin as the best goal scorer ever, and borderline top 10 player of all time, certainly to finish inside that benchmark when it's all said and done.

However, unless he can produce more significant postseason achievements to bridge the gap with Sid, he'll be ranked behind 87 by the majority of knowledgeable hockey people, goals be damned, as most people understand hockey is far more nuanced that pointing to a single raw number to achieve a "winning" argument.
 
I loathe the entire secondary assist knock as a way to bring Crosby artificially down because it asserts that assists aren't created equal while in turn valuing all goals on equal footing, which is absurd.

That's not the argument.

The argument is that secondary assists - on average - are a less difficult play to make than scoring a goal.
 
You can say, "oh well, Sid has x number of secondary assists and some of those were of little value to the subsequent goal scored by whomever". But you damn well better stand up and make the same claim about a significant number of goals scored only because the facilitator made an incredible pass or dig out of a corner to create a goal scoring opportunity for someone like Ovechkin. How many tap in (easy) goals has Ovi scored over the last 17 years that were the result of hard work or elite vision by another player? I'd wager it's a fairly sizable number.

Not all goals are created equal just as assists aren't.

The Midnight Judges of the world conveniently gloss over that hard reality.

Actually no, I would prefer to emphasize this reality.

Back when NHL.com was publishing shot distances, Ovechkin had by far the longest average shot distance of any of the leading goal scorers. Far longer than Stamkos, and farther than even Laine in his best seasons.

The shot distances show that Ovechkin was doing the heavy lifting for his team - far more than the average goal scorer, let alone players scoring anywhere near Ovechkin's pace - which comes as no surprise to anyone who watches him play. He's constantly scoring unscreened goals from distance, like this one:



Wilson and Kuznetsov make fine plays to enter the zone and make the cross-ice pass, but neither of them were challenged much or needed to go to the hard areas because they knew Ovie could put it in the net from 40 feet out unscreened.
 
Ovechkin will have an edge if he breaks the goals record. Not just for that, but for the records he has/will have broken along the way:
-all time goals (currently #3)
-all time ppg
-all time gwg (currently #2)
-all time points for a lw
-all time goals for a lw
-single season goals for a lw
-all time points for a russian
-all time goals for a russian
-most 50+ goal seasons
-most 40+ goal seasons
-most 30+ goal seasons (currently #2)
-most Richards/goal scoring leads
-oldest player to score 50

The one thing Crosby could do to pull ahead is to stick around long enough to score 2,000 points for #2 all time. He’s a freak like that, so I could see it happening.

Crosby might be a more “rounded” player but numbers/records/awards are what get remembered years later by future generations.
If only Crosby was a Russian LWer, he'd have a chance at some of these "records".
 
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If only Crosby was a Russian LWer, he'd have a chance at some of these "records".

And if Ovechkin were a Canadian center, he’d have added a couple gold medals to his trophy case, and would have been elevated to “golden boy” status on day one.
 
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