Value of: Artemi Panarin's RFA rights

[Cubs2024wildcard]

lol dude Hossa is currently healthy and playing. Your just talking from ur ass and saying Hossa's career will soon be over and his cap wont be an issue

Hossa might be washed up and is currently only good in spurts.

His chances of being a defensive third liner are much better then being on Toews wing this year.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

He actually has both. But don't let little things like facts derail your argument.

Oh. So he has a degenerative disk that prevents him from playing hockey? He has so many concussions that he literally can't be cleared by doctors?

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/news/blue-jackets-nathan-horton-enduring-living-hell-with-back-injury/

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/20...-estimated-concussion-totals-in-double-digits

Hossa has nothing like they have. You can't say "concussion" and toss a guy on LTIR. Hossa had his bad concussion after the Torres hit. He's been cleared for several years now. It wouldn't fly to put him on LTIR for it unless he had another occurrence.

 

[JaegerDice]

Pronger and Datsyuk have precisely nothing to do with Hossa. Hossa's deal isn't a 35+ deal.

Nathan Horton and Johan Franzen have debilitating issues that prevent them from playing hockey at all. You can't just stash a guy on LTIR. He's got to actually have an injury. Hossa does not have a messed up back like Horton or a history of concussions like Franzen.

So, maybe you need to familiarize yourself with the rules.

The NHL will not be the league that tells a player reporting concussion issues that they are lying and must play.

Not only is it not the PR battle they want to engage in given the ongoing suit they are currently fighting, but the NHLPA would sue them so fast to ensure a precedent isn't set.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Your insightfulness is remarkably astounding.

Let me familiarize you with similarly structured contracts, lets start with Pavel Datsyuk and Chris Pronger. You think Columbus or Toronto is worried about Nathan Horton's recapture penalty? How about Detroit worrying about Johan Franzen's?

Familiarize yourself with how teams are working within the rules of the CBA and working around the cap, including how they avoid the penalties in place.

Your lack of attention to detail is astounding.

First off, Pavel Datsyuks contract is not a comparison because his isnt eligible for recapture penalties

Second, Pronger was able to retire to medical injury and sit on LTIR for any team. Hossa does not have that option yet.

Third. Nathan Horton is also able to sit out on LTIR due to medical injury and is ALSO not eligible for recapture.

FOURTH. Johan Franzen is eligible to sit on LTIR due to medical injury and also his contract has not been traded so not sure why he is being brought up

Chicago is not trading a healthy Hossa anywhere so he can sit somewhere crappy, get bored and retired and put Chicago on the hook for massive recapture penalties.

Read up some more

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Pronger and Datsyuk have precisely nothing to do with Hossa. Hossa's deal isn't a 35+ deal.

Nathan Horton and Johan Franzen have debilitating issues that prevent them from playing hockey at all. You can't just stash a guy on LTIR. He's got to actually have an injury. Hossa does not have a messed up back like Horton or a history of concussions like Franzen.

So, maybe you need to familiarize yourself with the rules.

All of this.

Bravo. Not to mention he is mixing in recapture eligible contracts and non-recapture eligible contracts for whatever reason

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

The NHL will not be the league that tells a player reporting concussion issues that they are lying and must play.

Not only is it not the PR battle they want to engage in given the ongoing suit they are currently fighting, but the NHLPA would sue them so fast to ensure a precedent isn't set.

I mean I am sure the NHL will be asking for medical reports from doctors diagnosing concussions.

The NHL wont take a players word for it just to let an NHL team off the hook for millions in cap space if the player wants to retire. I would assume this would require failing the concussion protocol baseline test which if he was blatantly failing a medical doctor might pick up on it

I mean there definitive physical signs that players show that indicate concussion are that pretty hard to "fake". One being pupil response. Pretty hard to keep your pupils dilated and unresponsive to light when you are clear headed, its a natural reaction to have them react. It is common for athletes with concussions initially to not show pupil response to flashlights, which is generally one of the first tests they do when a player has taken a concussion hit

 

[Randy Randerson]

If Panarin were to be squeezed out of Chicago because of money, would the hawks be looking for futures or contributing players who fit the budget? Seems like a team thats built to win now

 

[Piffle]

If Panarin were to be squeezed out of Chicago because of money, would the hawks be looking for futures or contributing players who fit the budget? Seems like a team thats built to win now

They would prefer contributing players, but what some people in this thread are missing is that they could still trade him for some good picks, then flip the picks to other teams for contributing players. It doesn't have to be for exactly what they need. They just need good value, then they can flip the picks in a trade for what they need.

 

[Randy Randerson]

They would prefer contributing players, but what some people in this thread are missing is that they could still trade him for some good picks, then flip the picks to other teams for contributing players. It doesn't have to be for exactly what they need. They just need good value, then they can flip the picks in a trade for what they need.

From the leafs, I would offer JVR as a starting point. Maybe extend JVR at a ~$6m/yr range if that was desirable (same as what Lucic, Ladd, Okposo got this year). He's a little older than Panarin but still in his prime with lots of tread left and has been good as a complimentary player in the past, presuming he played with Kane or Toews I think that would be a decent fit.

Add accordingly in prospects/picks or non-core young players

would that seem like a fair basis to Hawks fans?

 

[thedoughboy]

If Panarin were to be squeezed out of Chicago because of money, would the hawks be looking for futures or contributing players who fit the budget? Seems like a team thats built to win now

I think you answered your own question

From the leafs, I would offer JVR as a starting point. Maybe extend JVR at a ~$6m/yr range if that was desirable (same as what Lucic, Ladd, Okposo got this year). He's a little older than Panarin but still in his prime with lots of tread left and has been good as a complimentary player in the past, presuming he played with Kane or Toews I think that would be a decent fit.

Add accordingly in /picks or non-core young players

would that seem like a fair basis to Hawks fans?

I wouldn't want JVR as the main piece personally. Especially not at 6mil.

 

[Randy Randerson]

I think you answered your own question




I wouldn't want JVR as the main piece personally. Especially not at 6mil.

I know where I see Chicago, but wanted to know where hawks fans see themselves

The JVR extension would only be if that was desirable for the hawks, that's the going rate for players of his ilk...and actually deflated from when Bobby Ryan signed at $7.25mil in 2014. As it stands there's 2 years at $4.25m left on JVR's deal which is pretty team friendly

I think the hawks would be hard-pressed to get a player back with Panarin's upside who isn't making the same kind of money that he's asking for, so thought JVR+ might be worth floating. The + could be something like Kasperi Kapanen - not a bluechip guy, but could get there with a strong season. Am I out to lunch on value there? (given that if Panarin is to be dealt, its in a scenario that the whole league knows that Chicago has to trade him. There would still be lots of suitors for a player of his age/talent, but its not a "the offer has to be good enough to pry him away" scenario because the option to decline everything and keep him isn't there)

 

[thedoughboy]

I know where I see Chicago, but wanted to know where hawks fans see themselves

The JVR extension would only be if that was desirable for the hawks, that's the going rate for players of his ilk...and actually deflated from when Bobby Ryan signed at $7.25mil in 2014. As it stands there's 2 years at $4.25m left on JVR's deal which is pretty team friendly

I think the hawks would be hard-pressed to get a player back with Panarin's upside who isn't making the same kind of money that he's asking for, so thought JVR+ might be worth floating. The + could be something like Kasperi Kapanen - not a bluechip guy, but could get there with a strong season. Am I out to lunch on value there? (given that if Panarin is to be dealt, its in a scenario that the whole league knows that Chicago has to trade him. There would still be lots of suitors for a player of his age/talent, but its not a "the offer has to be good enough to pry him away" scenario because the option to decline everything and keep him isn't there)

value isnt far off but id want a blue chip instead of jvr personally. not matthews obviously

 

[Randy Randerson]

value isnt far off but id want a blue chip instead of jvr personally. not matthews obviously

I think then it won't make sense for the leafs, we're smarter to wait on Marner/Nylander to get the ELC+RFA years from them. One for One I might consider trading one of those guys I guess, would be worth considering - we lose the ELC years but also the risk of them not turning out

The JVR thought was predicated on the hawks wanting a contributing player back to be able to go for it, I think you'd get better futures from another team that really needs an offensive star like NJ

 

[Alluckks]

Zuccarello + Buchnevich

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

In terms of Artemi Panarin's rights... he'd get a big package and I want to see him either repeat it or get slightly less impressive numbers if he were to be separated from Kane.

I would not be interested in paying a huge premium for one year of a guy when he put up huge numbers playing with the best offensive player in the league.

 

[JimEIV]

Does Patrick Kane come with those RFA rights?

5v5
With Patrick Kane
2.99 Goals For
2.51 Goals Against
52.7 CF%


Without Patrick Kane
1.36 Goals For
3.07 Goals Against
46.8 CF%

Good thing he only played 176:06 minutes of 1180:12 away from Kane.

 

[MurrayBannerman]

Does Patrick Kane come with those RFA rights?

5v5
With Patrick Kane
2.99 Goals For
2.51 Goals Against
52.7 CF%


Without Patrick Kane
1.36 Goals For
3.07 Goals Against
46.8 CF%

Good thing he only played 176:06 minutes of 1180:12 away from Kane.

Guys, I think this might be a "small sample".

 

[thesaadfather]

Does Patrick Kane come with those RFA rights?

5v5
With Patrick Kane
2.99 Goals For
2.51 Goals Against
52.7 CF%


Without Patrick Kane
1.36 Goals For
3.07 Goals Against
46.8 CF%

Good thing he only played 176:06 minutes of 1180:12 away from Kane.

It's almost like the Hawks only had one good line last year.

 

[slappipappi]

While I get that Panarin got to play with Kane last year, but consider the fact that Kane had by far his best year ever playing with Panarin.

Kane was the league's best player last year, and Panarin contributed to that in a meaningful way.

 

[Randy Randerson]

While I get that Panarin got to play with Kane last year, but consider the fact that Kane had by far his best year ever playing with Panarin.

Kane was the league's best player last year, and Panarin contributed to that in a meaningful way.

The eye test also favours him, has to be one of the leagues slipperiest players. No doubt that playing with Kane helped his production, but I have a hard time seeing a guy who can do the things he does not producing without a superior player on his line:




If there's one asset that I think makes players elite, its how fast their brains process information to be able to react to/anticipate what to do next. Panarin definitely thinks the game very quickly

 

[goldenbladz1]

While I get that Panarin got to play with Kane last year, but consider the fact that Kane had by far his best year ever playing with Panarin.

Kane was the league's best player last year, and Panarin contributed to that in a meaningful way.

Having Panarin on Kane's line definitely helps and compliments Kane's game but Kane was leading the NHL in scoring the previous year as well before he got injured (without Panarin)