Player Discussion Artem Zub (D) Part 2 [Extended 4 years @ $4.6M]

[HSF]

Kleven had an unreal game on Monday. So he’s becoming less of a question mark. To me jbd and hamonic are still question marks. Though I don’t mind Hamonic in a strict 6 role especially with a more comfortable kleven.

This team definitely needs a strong 6-7 though. And at least one d man in the minors who you trust to come up and play decent hockey.

unreal?

lol

 

[SpezDispenser]

I don't know how much evidence there is of any off-ice issues with Joseph. Certainly I haven't seen much of anything besides a few posters here mentioning he liked to party.

Personally I don't give a crap if he likes to have a good time post-game considering he was arguably the hardest working Senator during his time in Ottawa during actual games.

I mention Perron because I would have signed Amadio at 2.6M x 3YRs regardless of what we did with Joseph. That's a fair contract for a guy who should be a solid 3rd line forward for us. I had more of a problem with the Perron signing. He's old, Joseph out-scored him at even strength last year, and he doesn't bring the same assets to the table that Joseph did - mainly speed and forechecking ability - which are attributes we now lack in our lineup.

I still think there was something with Joseph, that's all I have though, a guess.

Perron brings Cup experience and hard work off ice. He brings a lot. Still not a fan of the signing that much though because of his age

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Branstrom can't make any team he goes to. Keeping him at 2 million would have been insane.

A small, offensive minded defenseman who can't score does not help this team when they lose their best defensive defenseman.

okay but didn't brannstrom play in the top 4 in similar circumstances the last 3 years when there injuries and play good hockey by the eye test and the numbers?

i agree 2m is is too much, but having a versatile 900k defenceman who has chemistry with everyone and has proven he can play in the top 4 without tanking the team would be invaluable right now.

instead we got hamonic on the top pair. and the entire season up for grabs because of it.

 

[SpezDispenser]

okay but didn't brannstrom play in the top 4 in similar circumstances the last 3 years when there injuries and play good hockey by the eye test and the numbers?

i agree 2m is is too much, but having a versatile 900k defenceman who has chemistry with everyone and has proven he can play in the top 4 would be invaluable right now.

instead we got hamonic on the top pair. and the entire season up for grabs because of it.

That's where dorion didn't think it through and left us with very little via options on ELCs.

You have to have a couple of Brannstroms kicking around, or at least one on an elc

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

That's where dorion didn't think it through and left us with very little via options on ELCs.

You have to have a couple of Brannstroms kicking around, or at least one on an elc

not to mention give a guy who should be retired an nmc.

just dorion things.

 

[SpezDispenser]

not to mention give a guy who should be retired an nmc.

just dorion things.

I was ok with the money, the term was not great. Rather pay more and do year by year.

That said, I really think hamonic will be solid this year - if he plays 45 games. Give him some time to get into game shape. If it's hard on Norris, it's hard on him too.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

unreal?

lol

Yes. He played amazing. A game where he could have easily defaulted to slamming the puck down the ice he didn’t. Calm composed. Played minutes a rookie probably shouldn’t. And did it well

 

[Xspyrit]

The Hamonic signing could have been fixed rather easily, but is largely irrelevant to the discussion about defensive depth.

The bigger issue than not buying him out was not surrounding him with additional depth so if he continued to suck he could be stapled to the bench.

I've also made the argument that trading Joseph to fit in Perron's cap hit, at the cost of a million in cap space, was a mistake.

It appears we don't want to play with a full roster and go with 2 spares on D because we'd be at risk of incurring a bonus overage penalty, like we did last year playing right up against the cap. Wouldn't be an issue if we kept Joseph and let Perron sign elsewhere.

Not the end of the world, but self-imposed errors that could cost us somewhat.

Unless Mathieu Joseph did unforgivable stuff off the ice that we don’t know, would have been great to just ride out his contract, he was easily worth 2.95 AAV last season. And also keep that 3rd round pick.

This like you said could have attracted his brother. With the money saved from not signing Perron, could have convinced Brannstrom to sign 1 year at less than 2.0 maybe when he would have seen there was no better deals to be had…

Our defence would be :

Sanderson - Zub
Chabot - Jensen
Joseph - Brannstrom
Kleven - JBD

Joseph can play RD too so that defense would be injury-proof

And more speed in the top-9, plus better defensively and easily our best forward on the PK

 

[HSF]

Yes. He played amazing. A game where he could have easily defaulted to slamming the puck down the ice he didn’t. Calm composed. Played minutes a rookie probably shouldn’t. And did it well

he played well

unreal is a massive stretch

 

[Burrowsaurus]

he played well

unreal is a massive stretch

I don’t mean unreal by the traditional understanding of the word.


Like I don’t actually think what he did could not possibly be real. Like I saw a UFO or I saw someone levitate and grow 10 arms.

Obviously not by like NHL legends standards either. I don’t think he played like bobby Orr or Wayne Gretzky on Monday.

By where he should be right now and I what I expect from him and down to 5 d. He played better than well. He played amazing.

I don’t know if amazing is lower on the scale than unreal. Just words.

 

[dumbdick]

unreal?

lol

Sure, but did you really lol?

Or were you just exagerating a bit when you wrote that?

 

[Schmautz11]

While people discuss the right adjective to describe Kleven's play, I'll throw another way to look at it. He was our second best LD in the game. To me that was clear but I will confess I am a little biased.

Can't wait til he moves up the depth chart. If the trends continue, that could be by Christmas.

 

[Xspyrit]

I don't know how much evidence there is of any off-ice issues with Joseph. Certainly I haven't seen much of anything besides a few posters here mentioning he liked to party.

Personally I don't give a crap if he likes to have a good time post-game considering he was arguably the hardest working Senator during his time in Ottawa during actual games.

I mention Perron because I would have signed Amadio at 2.6M x 3YRs regardless of what we did with Joseph. That's a fair contract for a guy who should be a solid 3rd line forward for us. I had more of a problem with the Perron signing. He's old, Joseph out-scored him at even strength last year, and he doesn't bring the same assets to the table that Joseph did - mainly speed and forechecking ability - which are attributes we now lack in our lineup.

Exactly my initial analysis, so obvious even for people who do NOT watch hockey

Seriously, there better a GOOD reason why we had to get rid of Joseph and sacrifice a draft pick we desperately need MORE of.

One of my other takes all along was that we needed MORE players like Joseph, not LESS which seems pretty obvious looking at this team. Need more speed, more fire in our bellies, more PK ability, more intensity, forechecking, hard working habits.

Branstrom can't make any team he goes to. Keeping him at 2 million would have been insane.

A small, offensive minded defenseman who can't score does not help this team when they lose their best defensive defenseman.

Yeah but he was talking now and Brannstrom has a 0.9 AAV now. By letting him go, the 2 M$ QO disappeared

And for how much people say Brannstrom can't score, only 99 D-men have had more ES Pts than him the last 2 seasons combined... which is about 3 D-men on average so he was like 4th in ES scoring on the average team

They need another jensen or zub. Not branstrom

Actually, I'd say that they would need a not injury-prone Zub and a younger Jensen instead. And ideally another top-4 RHD so Zub is on the 2nd pairing and Jensen on the 3rd

I'd take Brannstrom easily over Hamonic, JBD or whoever else we have in the AHL

 

[Golden_Jet]

We’ll try to sign whichever of Zub or Jensen is better over the next 2 season, and whichever has a more reasonable ask.

By the time their deals expire, Yakemchuk will be the top pair RD.

Sanderson - Yakemchuk
Kleven

I think those 3 are the only sure things to be on this team for the next 3-4 seasons.

Ya with the contract coming up soon and Yak on the horizon. I wonder if the team should explore trading Zub this off season.
Concussions are adding up for him, get something for him , and use the money on another D.

 

[lancepitlick]

Exactly my initial analysis, so obvious even for people who do NOT watch hockey

Seriously, there better a GOOD reason why we had to get rid of Joseph and sacrifice a draft pick we desperately need MORE of.

One of my other takes all along was that we needed MORE players like Joseph, not LESS which seems pretty obvious looking at this team. Need more speed, more fire in our bellies, more PK ability, more intensity, forechecking, hard working habits.



Yeah but he was talking now and Brannstrom has a 0.9 AAV now. By letting him go, the 2 M$ QO disappeared

And for how much people say Brannstrom can't score, only 99 D-men have had more ES Pts than him the last 2 seasons combined... which is about 3 D-men on average so he was like 4th in ES scoring on the average team



Actually, I'd say that they would need a not injury-prone Zub and a younger Jensen instead. And ideally another top-4 RHD so Zub is on the 2nd pairing and Jensen on the 3rd

I'd take Brannstrom easily over Hamonic, JBD or whoever else we have in the AHL

Jaques and Alfie were around Joseph for like 40 games last season and Staois obviously identified him as part of the problem, not part of the solution (at least at that salary). The team hasn't done him dirty by saying why via the press, but it's easy to read between the lines. It is what it is.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

trading a 28 year old zub to re-sign a 34 year old jensen is dumb.

 

[PlayOn]

Last year there were a bunch of RD on the market and we couldn’t convince anyone to sign here. This year there’s practically nothing.

We really aren’t in any position to be moving any of our RD unless it’s in a package for an upgrade.

Zub’s injuries really do suck though. But having Yakemchuk as an option will at least save us from Hamonic when he inevitably gets hurt.

 

[JD1]

Any word on zub's return? Did he practice today?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Any word on zub's return? Did he practice today?

Haven’t heard anything, but with multiple concussions now, team should consider moving on, in the summer, and use his money for another D.

Concussions become more frequent with the number you have.

 

[bicboi64]

Even a concussed Zub that is only available for like 50-60 games is more valuable to us than some of the RD options we have, unless of course we go acquire an upgrade which isn't the easiest thing to do.

 

[Xspyrit]

Jaques and Alfie were around Joseph for like 40 games last season and Staois obviously identified him as part of the problem, not part of the solution (at least at that salary). The team hasn't done him dirty by saying why via the press, but it's easy to read between the lines. It is what it is.

Yeah he might have character issues or I would say maturity issues that are known in the NHL circle... I can't see how his value would be negative at 2.95 AAV, he's a solid hockey player and not someone you should look to trade. perfect guy to have in your bottom-6, top PK unit and who could even fill in the Top-6 in case of injury.

That being said, past or present management haven't proven a single thing yet. It only comes with results and we are in year #8 of the rebuild. For now I give them the benefit of the doubt but they can only get my trust with results.

trading a 28 year old zub to re-sign a 34 year old jensen is dumb.

His injuries have really become a problem... You would never look to trade him but if you can get value AND get another young-ish Top-4 RHD, maybe you do it but it seems like it would be very hard to make it happen anyway so we're most likely going to keep Zub. Hopefully he stops getting injured

 

[Golden_Jet]

trading a 28 year old zub to re-sign a 34 year old jensen is dumb.

Currently that is a no brainer.

Jensen is the best D this year, and if you can get something for a player with concussion concerns you take it.