Arrest over Johnson death / released within 24 hours, investigation remains open

[ChaoticOrange]

Saw this comment on Reddit regarding UK laws regarding manslaughter:



The only argument that can be made is that he intentionally kicked Johnson and that it violates one of these, but that seems like a huge stretch. I sincerely doubt he gets charged, but it’s a joke that it’s even getting to this point.

I think it's highly unlikely that he's found guilty, but even to be charged with something is pretty well unheard of for an on-ice incident. I can't think of one since McSorely.

 

[Empoleon8771]

how do you know that?

Why do you keep claiming something every normal person can see is incorrect.
Are you afraid it will hurt the sport in general?

So do you seriously think that killing another player in a professional hockey game isn’t going to scar someone for life? Seriously?

He's being arrested weeks later, that's gotta mean charges have been filed...whether they stick or get dropped later on is another question i guess

They’re almost definitely going to get dropped.

 

[Rebels57]

Need more details, but on the surface, that's not a good thing, arresting people for sports accidents, unless there's video of the guy intentionally kicking at Johnson.......

There is video of the player intentionally kicking him.

I don't think anyone would believe he intended on kicking him in the neck, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be held responsible for his death. Kicking is extremely outside the scope of the sport so you can't just use the "accidents happen" excuse and get off with taking a mans life. The case will all come down to whether you can accept he didn't mean to even kick him at all or not.

 

[Iwishihadaspacebar]

Do they have preliminary inquiries before trials in the UK? I don't think this would ever make it to trial in Canada but stranger things have happened.

I'm in the UK. This isn't a conviction, the process will be he will be interviewed and if the police believe there has been a crime committed then the details will be sent to the Crown Prosecution Service who will determine whether the police evidence is enough for a possible conviction.

If so, there would (highly likely) be a trip to court.

At this stage I would expect him to be bailed or released under investigation whilst everything is collated for reviewing. This is likely going to take a while to get to a court if they believe there is a crime committed, but I could he wrong as this is an unusual situation.

Only clear and obvious serious crimes get sent to court within days here.

 

[MOGlLNY]

Killing a man was the accidental part. I don't believe kicking his leg out was an accident.

So, when you kick your leg out and someone dies accidentally from that, that''s manslaughter. Seems like an okay arrest to me.

This is my point of view as well. Unfortunately a very sad situation all around and I’m sure he’s guilt ridden as is.

 

[zenthusiast]

It doesn’t seem that fantastical to suggest that this person might have acted with reckless intent in a matter that led to an unfortunate, unanticipated result. I don’t have any opinion as to whether that’s actually the case but that’s what this process is meant to determine and it strikes me as an example of the system functioning as it’s supposed to.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Need more details, but on the surface, that's not a good thing, arresting people for sports accidents, unless there's video of the guy intentionally kicking at Johnson.......

There is a video

I dunno enough about UK Law, I think in the U.S. it's a pretty close call. It looked like he kicked his leg up with the intent to bring him down, and that is an extremely dirty and dangerous play for precisely the reason that resulted in tragedy in this particular instance. If he just cut up his face, people would be calling for a massive fine/suspension and be justified in doing so.

Of course, he never intended to cut his throat and kill him, but this is manslaughter, not murder 1. Acting recklessly and causing someone's death is manslaughter. The sporting context makes it a different animal as there is obviously always intent to "hurt" someone through physical contact that is allowed as part of the sport, but this was a "dirty" play but so "dirty" as to be outside the normal confines of sport? It's really really hard to say. It's an interesting topic, one I studied a bit as part of a self-exercise law school project and there isn't much clear guidance (again, from a U.S. perspective, this is U.K. but much of U.S. common law derives from English tradition so likely not so different).

 

[TLEH]

Different country so hard for me to speak in absolutes. Seems pretty insane to get arrested for a freak accident.

 

[AfroThunder396]

If the entire case hinges around the word "intentional" then I don't know why a prosecutor would bring these charges. How the hell do you prove intent here?

 

[Strangle]

Killing a man was the accidental part. I don't believe kicking his leg out was an accident.

So, when you kick your leg out and someone dies accidentally from that, that''s manslaughter. Seems like an okay arrest to me.

The video isn’t very conclusive, I admit when I saw it this was my initial reaction too.

 

[Little Psycho]

Petgrave received a standing ovation last night when he returned so this is a wild turn.

 

[Shrimper]

I hope someone is with Petgrave as I hate to imagine what is going through his mind right now

 

[SFKingshomer]

Looked intentional but the game is fast and I only saw a quick video.

 

[shakes the clown]

can someone post the video so we can judge if there was an intentional kick or not?

 

[Iwishihadaspacebar]

If the entire case hinges around the word "intentional" then I don't know why a prosecutor would bring these charges. How the hell do you prove intent here?

Manslaughter in the UK is without intent to kill.

 

[MOGlLNY]

Different country so hard for me to speak in absolutes. Seems pretty insane to get arrested for a freak accident.

If you’re driving recklessly and get into an accident hitting another person walking down the street, that’s manslaughter.

 

[blundluntman]

The leg movement did not look natural to me. Obviously, he didn't mean to fatally injure Johnson but that's literally what manslaughter is: the causing of a fatal injury without malicious intent/planning. Moving your leg like that and having a skate high enough to even possibly cut a player's neck is extremely reckless. If they can prove that he was in control of his body, there should be consequences. I doubt he'll face a serious sentence even if found guilty but the law is the law. I'm sure he feels guilty/awful about what happened but I'd presume most people arrested for manslaughter feel the same way when charges are pressed. I've seen a video where a guy who did time for manslaughter talked about how disturbing the experience was, you could tell he felt absolutely terrible about what happened.

I'm not gonna say he should be tossed in jail and we should throw away the key, but you don't just enforce the law for the sake of punishment, it's also to deter future situations where reckless behavior can endanger lives.

Once again, I only believe he should face charges if he genuinely didn't lift his skate accidentally. Even if he didn't intend to hurt him, if his actions were voluntarily avoidable, he is technically guilty of manslaughter.

 

[J bo Jeans]

Ridiculous lmao. You saw it in his face after he was distraught. Legs come up far more often than you think. No video at all shows an attempted kick.

 

[nhlfan9191]

How does a person getting hit have the presence of mind to left their blade to cut somebodies neck? It makes no sense.

 

[TLEH]

If you’re driving recklessly and get into an accident hitting another person walking down the street, that’s manslaughter.

A lot more nuance to this than that. Can't compare hockey to driving a car.

If a guy crosschecks a guys head into the ice while down and he suffers a freak accident and dies, is the guy who cross checked deserve to get arrested?

It was a freak accident.

 

[TrufleShufle]

how do you know that?

Why do you keep claiming something every normal person can see is incorrect.
Are you afraid it will hurt the sport in general?

There were reports in the days following saying that he was inconsolable after the incident, which I believe. It's ok for multiple things to be true.

Take a kid speeding and driving recklessly with a friend in the car, not thinking about the consequences, they crash, the friend dies. The driver can and most likely will be absolutely emotionally destroyed but at the same time looked at as liable for being reckless. Realizing you made a mistake doesn't absolve you from it.

You don't have to pretend like the dude is putting a notch on his belt while smiling to say you think he was at fault.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

There is video of the player intentionally kicking him.

I don't think anyone would believe he intended on kicking him in the neck, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be held responsible for his death. Kicking is extremely outside the scope of the sport so you can't just use the "accidents happen" excuse and get off with taking a mans life. The case will all come down to whether you can accept he didn't mean to even kick him at all or not.

Which is why I said need more info, I haven't watched the video yet....it was tragic as it is, didn't need to watch it then, should watch it later on today to get the scope of it now, that someone else's life is on the line over it....

 

[Do Make Say Think]

What he did was despicable and dangerous. If he is convicted then he is a murderer.

He isn't being charged with murder.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

If the entire case hinges around the word "intentional" then I don't know why a prosecutor would bring these charges. How the hell do you prove intent here?

Intent is a key element in proving most crimes beyond a reasonable doubt

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Lotta British legal experts in the thread.

Zero tolerance, folks. If you flame another poster, if you're trolling, if you're offensive, if you go into politics, you're done.

This thread's on a short leash.