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Porter Stoutheart

Porter Stoutheart

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Jun 14, 2017
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I think like we just did with Askarov GMs should take a very hard line approach with any players who are coming in hot with demands that don't really fit the team plan/budget. Evan Bouchard is no special player. There are a handful of special players in the league who you do make an exception for, but he's not one of them. He's basically Ryan Ellis landing on a team with a magical PP and 1-2 franchise duo in McDavid/Draisatl, but he's not the guy who makes things tick there. So you hardball him all day, and let him go if you need to. There are plenty of offense-only guys who will slot onto that team and pile up points. Heck, Tyson Barrie did! And we know just how good he is. I think Edmonton could take a "pass" on this guy if it ever really came to that. :dunno:
 

herzausstein

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Aug 31, 2014
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Armourboy said:
Yeah and then I look at him and say, " making one mistake doesn't mean we should make another ". I'm fine with paying guys, but I'd sure as heck want to make sure they had shown me over multiple years before I did it.

Taking a chance on a guy and locking them up early is generally about saving money in the long term, aka Ekholm. They are locking him up early and seeing no benefit, its all gamble.

Speaking of Ekholm, if I'm giving a Dman that I'd want to feel real comfortable knowing he is the 1D and not the guy strapped to him. We learned a long time ago, Ekholm can damn near make anyone look good.
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Ekholm is the perfect partner for a guy like Bouchard.

Unfortunately for Edmonton, theyre in the same position now as they were when they extended Nurse. They dont have anyone to replace him with near or long term. Yes, a good portion of his production is because he plays with guys like McDavid and Draisaitl. Yes, a stable dman like ekholm is a big part of why he can play the way he does. But he has a strong case to argue in arbitration that he is worth more than nurse. On the ice more than Nurse, produces more than nurse, etc.

Would i want to pay him that much? No

But he will have a strong case and edmonton risks him asking for even more if he has another year like last
 

wmupreds

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Dec 15, 2022
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Porter Stoutheart said:
I think like we just did with Askarov GMs should take a very hard line approach with any players who are coming in hot with demands that don't really fit the team plan/budget. Evan Bouchard is no special player. There are a handful of special players in the league who you do make an exception for, but he's not one of them. He's basically Ryan Ellis landing on a team with a magical PP and 1-2 franchise duo in McDavid/Draisatl, but he's not the guy who makes things tick there. So you hardball him all day, and let him go if you need to. There are plenty of offense-only guys who will slot onto that team and pile up points. Heck, Tyson Barrie did! And we know just how good he is. I think Edmonton could take a "pass" on this guy if it ever really came to that. :dunno:
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Bouchard ain't Tyson Barrie, not even close. For one he was much better defensively this past season than in previous years. But more importantly Barrie (and many other offensive d-men) was essentially a PP guy who you hoped to survive with at 5v5. Bouchard drives possession very well both with and away from McDavid and Draisaitl. The best defense is playing in the other team's zone, and Bouchard excels at that.

He was also incredible in the playoffs, which has bitten teams before when giving out big contracts, but nonetheless helps his case.
 
Porter Stoutheart

Porter Stoutheart

Seen Stamkos?
Jun 14, 2017
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wmupreds said:
Bouchard ain't Tyson Barrie, not even close. For one he was much better defensively this past season than in previous years. But more importantly Barrie (and many other offensive d-men) was essentially a PP guy who you hoped to survive with at 5v5. Bouchard drives possession very well both with and away from McDavid and Draisaitl. The best defense is playing in the other team's zone, and Bouchard excels at that.

He was also incredible in the playoffs, which has bitten teams before when giving out big contracts, but nonetheless helps his case.
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So then that's the other thing... let these guys play it out and prove themselves. If they have one big year, and in Bouchard's case it's even better because he's still just RFA... then let them put that year up again. No need to go extending him today based on what might have been his best ever season or a statistical anomaly.
 
Armourboy

Armourboy

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Jan 20, 2014
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Porter Stoutheart said:
So then that's the other thing... let these guys play it out and prove themselves. If they have one big year, and in Bouchard's case it's even better because he's still just RFA... then let them put that year up again. No need to go extending him today based on what might have been his best ever season or a statistical anomaly.
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Yep this exactly. He's 24, he has several years before he reaches UFA status. Even if I end up paying a little more later on, lets be honest it ain't gonna jump much more than he is asking for right now, and you don't get stuck in a situation like you did with Nurse.

The guy did well offensively, but Ekholm is driving that pair defensively and probably way more than he should for a guy that wants 11 million. That's literally top defenseman in the league money, and he ain't that.
 
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Predsanddead24

Predsanddead24

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I’m a bit confused by this convo because it sounds like Edmonton is still just in the early processes of negotiation and the $11M is just an ask and is coming from an unreliable source. Is there any indication that a contract is anywhere close to fruition?
 
weeze

weeze

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May 2, 2011
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Armourboy said:
Yep this exactly. He's 24, he has several years before he reaches UFA status. Even if I end up paying a little more later on, lets be honest it ain't gonna jump much more than he is asking for right now, and you don't get stuck in a situation like you did with Nurse.

The guy did well offensively, but Ekholm is driving that pair defensively and probably way more than he should for a guy that wants 11 million. That's literally top defenseman in the league money, and he ain't that.
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I think for a D-man sometimes a player is good because of his playing partner. Some D-men are good/great like Josi and Makar but sometimes a D-man can be good because of his partner. Take that partner away and that player may not be as good with another player.
 
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Porter Stoutheart

Porter Stoutheart

Seen Stamkos?
Jun 14, 2017
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Predsanddead24 said:
I’m a bit confused by this convo because it sounds like Edmonton is still just in the early processes of negotiation and the $11M is just an ask and is coming from an unreliable source. Is there any indication that a contract is anywhere close to fruition?
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No, just people are guffawing over the initial ask.
 
Armourboy

Armourboy

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Scoresberg said:
Is Boston really going to fumble their goalie situation this badly? Good lord what a circus over there..
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Keep in mind the agent is the same guy that was Nylander's agent, he basically got him to hold out over a couple 100k, and only came to an end because Nylander picked up the phone and basically finished the deal himself. He was also Johnny Hockey's for his first RFA contract and tried the same thing with him but he told the agent to sign the deal because he wanted to play.

People want to put this all on Boston because they think they are trying to be cheap, but frankly I wouldn't give him much more than 7 x 4 and I think that is a risk. He's only played roughly half the games in a season, had a good playoffs, but wants to be paid like Shesterkin likely will be. He just doesn't have the track record to be looking for that kind of money.

As far as the media side of it I get why the GM has kind of flipped out on it. The agent is basically leaking everything going on to podcasts but then people want to jump Boston for using the media for the same reason.

Thing is if they try and trade him at this point they are going to get next to nothing for him. No one is going to trade for a relatively unproven goalie that wants 10+ million a season. and if they are its going to be for pennies.
 
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Scoresberg

Scoresberg

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Armourboy said:
Keep in mind the agent is the same guy that was Nylander's agent, he basically got him to hold out over a couple 100k, and only came to an end because Nylander picked up the phone and basically finished the deal himself. He was also Johnny Hockey's for his first RFA contract and tried the same thing with him but he told the agent to sign the deal because he wanted to play.

People want to put this all on Boston because they think they are trying to be cheap, but frankly I wouldn't give him much more than 7 x 4 and I think that is a risk. He's only played roughly half the games in a season, had a good playoffs, but wants to be paid like Shesterkin likely will be. He just doesn't have the track record to be looking for that kind of money.

As far as the media side of it I get why the GM has kind of flipped out on it. The agent is basically leaking everything going on to podcasts but then people want to jump Boston for using the media for the same reason.

Thing is if they try and trade him at this point they are going to get next to nothing for him. No one is going to trade for a relatively unproven goalie that wants 10+ million a season. and if they are its going to be for pennies.
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Yeah, I agree. The 8x8 offer reportedly on the table is very generous already from the team from my POV.
 
Predsanddead24

Predsanddead24

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I think Boston is completely right with their contract offer but I still think the big mistake was moving Ullmark before this got sorted out.
 
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Armourboy

Armourboy

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Predsanddead24 said:
I think Boston is completely right with their contract offer but I still think the big mistake was moving Ullmark before this got sorted out.
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I mean basically from my understanding is they moved Ullmark so they could safely make other moves. I mean truthfully the number of RFA's that pull something like this are pretty small in number, however this seems to be this agent way of doing things so they probably should have protected themselves some. Granted they got Korpisalo in that deal so maybe they believed with their team play he would be good enough if something did go south.

Thing is every day that passes, once the season starts, Swayman's leverage is on borrowed time. That leverage could also take a nose dive if Boston comes out and does well the first month or so of the season. Obviously that bit can go both ways.

Eventually though it reaches a point where Swayman, to go all in, is going to need to be willing to lose at least 6 million for this season that he can never get back. I don't care what circus math you pull off in your head you can't get it back, its just gone.
 
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