Around the NHL

[Flgatorguy87]

WTF happened to goaltending in Canada when your national team has Jordan Binnington starting, backed up by Adin Hill and Sam Montembault? No disrespect intended to any of those guys, but they are more "garden variety" NHL starters. There isn't a star goalie anywhere from Canada anymore.

Can we do anything it takes to get Brady Tkachuk here, please? Remember when there were sort of rumors he might be asking out? Have those all gone away now that Ottawa is semi-competitive?

I don't think there are many players on my list of "love to have them" ahead of Brady Tkachuk. An absolute treat to watch and exactly the style of hockey that entertains me.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I don't think there are many players on my list of "love to have them" ahead of Brady Tkachuk. An absolute treat to watch and exactly the style of hockey that entertains me.

Such old school stats...

I'm surprised to see that Ottawa actually sits at the top of the NHL Cap expenditure tree on CapWages? Anyway, past that, $8.2M is a steal in today's dollars for what this 25-year old Captain is doing. His NMC kicks in on July 1st... maybe if the Sens miss the playoffs he could still look to move somewhere more tax-friendly...

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I'm afraid that kind of all star roster would come at the expense of intensity that comes from national pride. National level all star game kinda.

You don't think guys like Drai and Pasta would be excited to rep the HRE?

 

[Gh24]

You don't think guys like Drai and Pasta would be excited to rep the HRE?

It would probably be fun.

 

[Armourboy]

Trotz did say that if he didn't see a lot of improvement by the Christmas break, he was going to give the kids all the ice time and see what they could do.

Oh, wait...

I mean he didn't really lie on that one, he just got rid of all of them by they time that rolled around.

Not to defend him, cause there is nothing defensible to anything he's done this season, but he has at least brought ZLH, Svechkov, some of the Dmen and Kemell got a couple of games. Now it might have been forced but hey they are playing.

I'm kind of wondering at this point how much of any of these moves has been done simply because Brunette wouldn't play them or give them minutes. That's still on him, he should have fired Brunette months ago, but you think he would have at least told him to just roll 4 lines and balance out the minutes and stop worrying about the freaking score cause this season is over. Granted I'm not sure based on Trotz's math that he thought the season was over until right before the break.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Trotz is definitely a difficult read... I admit I fully got on board with all his press conferences and chats with the media in Year 1. It seemed like a breath of fresh air in terms of total transparency.

Even to this day, I don't feel like I know for sure if he was ever intentionally lying to us up front. Or if he just picked a different answer as the season unfolded and then tried to backtrack by posthumously inventing posthumous narratives.

That's probably a good example of why a GM shouldn't really say anything. I'm not letting Trotz off the hook for being a dumb noob, however... it seemed "refreshing" at the time from a fan perspective.... but I bet we could have taken it more easily if he had just been silent/opaque all the way through and left us to guess?

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Trotz is definitely a difficult read... I admit I fully got on board with all his press conferences and chats with the media in Year 1. It seemed like a breath of fresh air in terms of total transparency.

Even to this day, I don't feel like I know for sure if he was ever intentionally lying to us up front. Or if he just picked a different answer as the season unfolded and then tried to backtrack by posthumously inventing posthumous narratives.

That's probably a good example of why a GM shouldn't really say anything. I'm not letting Trotz off the hook for being a dumb noob, however... it seemed "refreshing" at the time from a fan perspective.... but I bet we could have taken it more easily if he had just been silent/opaque all the way through and left us to guess?

EF was talking about Trotz a few weeks back. He noted that Trotz is one of very few GMs who do regular weekly radio hits, and this season we are seeing why most GMs play it close to vest.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

EF was talking about Trotz a few weeks back. He noted that Trotz is one of very few GMs who do regular weekly radio hits, and this season we are seeing why most GMs play it close to vest.

Yeah, I mean if Trotz isn't truly sincere about the things he says... then he really shouldn't be talking at all.

We know for a fact he wasn't sincere about some things (integrating young talent the forefront). He might have randomly thought at some point that it might have been a good idea to wish for? Ok, but that's different than truly being sincere and proactive about actually doing it. Better to just not say anything.

It actually sucks to wish our GM would "just shut up". But alas... here we are...

 

[Kat Predator]

I mean he didn't really lie on that one, he just got rid of all of them by they time that rolled around.

Not to defend him, cause there is nothing defensible to anything he's done this season, but he has at least brought ZLH, Svechkov, some of the Dmen and Kemell got a couple of games. Now it might have been forced but hey they are playing.

I'm kind of wondering at this point how much of any of these moves has been done simply because Brunette wouldn't play them or give them minutes. That's still on him, he should have fired Brunette months ago, but you think he would have at least told him to just roll 4 lines and balance out the minutes and stop worrying about the freaking score cause this season is over. Granted I'm not sure based on Trotz's math that he thought the season was over until right before the break.

There is some of that "pull string talking Barbie" going on, "Math is hard!"

4 divided by x where x is any number 10 or larger is apparently 40% in Barry-math.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Yeah, I mean if Trotz isn't truly sincere about the things he says... then he really shouldn't be talking at all.

We know for a fact he wasn't sincere about some things (integrating young talent the forefront). He might have randomly thought at some point that it might have been a good idea to wish for? Ok, but that's different than truly being sincere and proactive about actually doing it. Better to just not say anything.

It actually sucks to wish our GM would "just shut up". But alas... here we are...

I do think he seems sincere about wanting to incorporate young players, but in an old school way. He doesn’t seem to believe in gifting them prime ice time. He thinks they need to earn it. Not necessarily by producing but by playing way he (and Bruno) wants them to play. Blues have similar approach and many fans are complaining about guy like Bolduc not getting enough ice time.

I get the thinking, that if you just gift them prime ice time you risk becoming Edmonton or Buffalo, but young players need to be allowed to make mistakes. They need to be able to play the minutes to grow. I will be real curious to see progression of Sven and l’hereux and kemmel over next year or 2. If they get increasing opportunities it would tell me that Trotz wants to play young players, just not ones that don’t play how he wants.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I do think he seems sincere about wanting to incorporate young players, but in an old school way. He doesn’t seem to believe in gifting them prime ice time. He thinks they need to earn it. Not necessarily by producing but by playing way he (and Bruno) wants them to play. Blues have similar approach and many fans are complaining about guy like Bolduc not getting enough ice time.

I get the thinking, that if you just gift them prime ice time you risk becoming Edmonton or Buffalo, but young players need to be allowed to make mistakes. They need to be able to play the minutes to grow. I will be real curious to see progression of Sven and l’hereux and kemmel over next year or 2. If they get increasing opportunities it would tell me that Trotz wants to play young players, just not ones that don’t play how he wants.

Hm. I don't think you "gift" them "prime" ice time. That's a non-starter.

But the bottom line is that a guy like Tomasino produced ~0.5 ppg with 4th line icetime, and others like Svechkov and Novak and Evangelista and (long ago) Parssinen put up some solid numbers too. Not with gifted ice time. But rather with repressed ice time.

It just never went anywhere after that. That's the problem. Young guys DID step up and produce in limited opportunity. But then were treated as if they didn't produce, and were relegated in favor of AHL tweener/grinders.

I think the central dichotomy here is that we're asking for the impossible. Our kids aren't Sidney Crosby. We aren't drafting #1 OA. If they are outproducing our filler AHL guys, then yes, that's worthy of elevated utilization. But instead of elevated utilization, our kids get relegated/cast aside.

I don't see any real avenue for apologizing for management's approach here. They have f'ed up across the board. And seem quite content to continue to doing so?

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Hm. I don't think you "gift" them "prime" ice time. That's a non-starter.

But the bottom line is that a guy like Tomasino produced ~0.5 ppg with 4th line icetime, and others like Svechkov and Novak and Evangelista and (long ago) Parssinen put up some solid numbers too. Not with gifted ice time. But rather with repressed ice time.

It just never went anywhere after that. That's the problem. Young guys DID step up and produce in limited opportunity. But then were treated as if they didn't produce, and were relegated in favor of AHL tweener/grinders.

I think the central dichotomy here is that we're asking for the impossible. Our kids aren't Sidney Crosby. We aren't drafting #1 OA. If they are outproducing our filler AHL guys, then yes, that's worthy of elevated utilization. But instead of elevated utilization, our kids get relegated/cast aside.

I don't see any real avenue for apologizing for management's approach here. They have f'ed up across the board. And seem quite content to continue to doing so?

I don’t think Trotz and Bruno’s issue with guys like Timmasino is their production. It’s the way he plays. It’s his commitment to defense and doing the winning things aside from scoring. Bruno said just that at end of season presser about Tommasino. I’m not saying Trotz is right, just that there may be more of a consistency there than it appears. It’s not like he is gonna come out and say that he dumped these guys bc they were selfish or lazy or whatnot.

 

[Kat Predator]

I don’t think Trotz and Bruno’s issue with guys like Timmasino is their production. It’s the way he plays. It’s his commitment to defense and doing the winning things aside from scoring. Bruno said just that at end of season presser about Tommasino. I’m not saying Trotz is right, just that there may be more of a consistency there than it appears. It’s not like he is gonna come out and say that he dumped these guys bc they were selfish or lazy or whatnot.

Commitment to defense is a poor argument.

The veterans that get a ton of TOI often make lousy decisions and bad passes and after the turnover don't even bother to try to backcheck or get back in the play. [No one is perfect. Crosby, one of the greatest players of all time, make a terrible decision and bad pass just the other day that lost a game. He didn't just stand there and look at the rafters, though. He skated as hard as he could to get back, knowing the d-men were caught on a change. Our vets would half-ass it knowing it doesn't matter.] You have defensive defensemen who don't even get to play and get waived. You have defenseman rewarded for constantly NOT making the better defensive play but who instead take themselves out of the play for a hit or for a free skate around the back of the opponent's net. We have acquired guys who play like wingers to play 1st pairing defenseman minutes. We have young guys who are mesmerizing skaters and who can read plays and they get sent back to Milwaukee after showing consistent, high-level defensive skills.

You're correct that they just didn't like a kid like Tomasino. They are fine with veteran guys who were developed by other organizations making the same mistakes, but they just refuse to give their own kids the necessary runway of playing in the NHL consistently and in a system to become the reliable, cost-controlled bottom 9, and bottom pairing sorts of guys that all competitive teams utilize.

 

[Flgatorguy87]

Trotz is definitely a difficult read... I admit I fully got on board with all his press conferences and chats with the media in Year 1. It seemed like a breath of fresh air in terms of total transparency.

Even to this day, I don't feel like I know for sure if he was ever intentionally lying to us up front. Or if he just picked a different answer as the season unfolded and then tried to backtrack by posthumously inventing posthumous narratives.

That's probably a good example of why a GM shouldn't really say anything. I'm not letting Trotz off the hook for being a dumb noob, however... it seemed "refreshing" at the time from a fan perspective.... but I bet we could have taken it more easily if he had just been silent/opaque all the way through and left us to guess?

Probably a good perspective. Things change so fast, and maybe keeping things less specific helps with managing expectations.

 

[PredsV82]

I think Trotz was already making room on his shelf for the GM of the year award after this summers signings and this year's reality is so horrific he is completely paralyzed. He has no clue how to respond and his coaching background is making him stick with this absolutely dogshit stupid coach while he fritters away our young players.

I'm very interested to see if he gets his head out of his ass at the trade deadline and makes some smart moves to get us back on track or if he flails like he has with everything else this year.

 

[originalpredfan]

I've made some stupid mistakes in my life, and while admitting a few of them I used the tool of avoidance for the majority of them while hoping they would never come to light. Unfortunately for Trotz we have the internet and HF Boards scrutinizing his multitude of mistakes. I believe he is reluctant to try and rectify what he has done because he would then admit he was wrong. I agree with PredsV82 that he was trying to make a big splash as a rookie GM, and it has backfired on him. Time will tell if he can learn from this year.

 

[Armourboy]

I have no issue with guys needing to earn ice time, but you can't take them and put them on lines with guys just like them and AHL tweeners, or even worse, you stick them with Vets and them only give them 7 minutes of ice time when those guys are getting 18-20.

I get guys need to make the most of their opportunity, but you also need to make sure that it is actually an opportunity and not just lip service. That's what we've seen the last two season when it comes to our youth, a whole lot of lip service.