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Around the NHL XXII: And a thread title to be named later

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NyQuil said:
Can you imagine if it had been Karlsson who had fallen with the puck?
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A youtube video that would get put in every Karlsson thread by haters.

"He's not good defensively".

In that same game Subban and Markov had a 3 on 2 they played pretty poorly that lead to a goal. I really don't understand why people overrate the defensive game of some, overlook mistakes and just pick apart others (like Karlsson).
 
HavlatMach9 said:
feels very wrong that it's as if the habs problems are being put on pk.
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No kidding. PK has his warts, he's not infallible as a hockey player. There will be times when he makes a bad play. You can't expect him, especially the way he plays, to be perfect all the time.

Their main problem on that team is that Price is hurt, and anyone that says otherwise simply does not follow hockey.

A secondary problem is that Markov is just this season (IMO) starting to decline in effectiveness due to age (I mean, he's 37, it was bound to happen eventually). Markov is still a fine player, but Subban was so good (like, Norris good) because he had amazing chemistry with another very good defenceman.

Subban is the same player he's always been, but without Price and with Markov losing a bit of his top-end, this is what you have. Subban is leading his freaking team in scoring as a defenceman - he's not the problem.
 
Price being hurt definitely is a problem but no team should be playing as bad as Montreal has since Price got hurt. Time for guys like Pacioretty, Subban, Gallagher and Galchenyuk to step up and get this team out of the doldrums.
 
The Habs have arguably the worst center depth in the league. (especially since they barely use Galch at C)

They should trade Plekanec, imo.
 
Subban is dynamic and talented but the 2nd best D-man in the league? Maybe offensively...

Karlsson is by far the best offensively but he is also far to be the best defensively. Of course, Sens score a lot of goals when he is on the ice, but he is consistently among the D-men that get scored the most against when he is on the ice. He is a bit like Spezza in that sense...

198th in GA/60 at ES out of 218 D-men with 200 minutes or more this season... the SV% he receives is 0.910

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...=200&teamid=0&type=goals&sort=A60&sortdir=ASC

2014-15 : 163/238 (924 SV%)
2013-14 : 213/243 (916 SV%)
2012-13 : 065/241 (939 SV%) *100 minutes and +
2011-12 : 158/241 (920 SV%)
2010-11 : 209/237 (911 SV%)
2009-10 : 172/233 (896 SV%)

Karlsson and the way he plays is a good reason why the Sens struggle defensively. He is the epitome of high scoring games.

Altimus said:
Its scary. All the great Subban does both on/off ice, and they are just hanging him out. He's an amazing player but I wonder how much he can repress before it becomes a trade request. And every single fan knows him and Price and tight, so what risk does it cause to fracturing his relationship with the Habs.
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Ron Fournier and other medias are actually running Subban out of town, making him the villain. The Habs are such a gong show right now :popcorn:

L'Aveuglette said:
I still think he did wonders with that roster though. People hate on the guy way too much. Benching Subban was risky, but perhaps it was actually warranted.
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True, but Price can make any team look stellar... Imagine the Sens with Price

Do Make Say Think said:
And are back to sucking.

They are distressingly similar to us: a team built around a player.

I think it isn't winning formula unfortunately. They need to not suck without Price just like we need to not suck without Karlsson (who leaves the ice more often than a goalie).
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Well, Sens made the playoffs without Karlsson and Spezza, and even Anderson... And again, without Anderson (if you check the last 2 times the Sens made the playoffs). But people here repeat non-stop that this team would be the worst without Karlsson and Anderson :laugh:

When people will start understanding than the success in the NHL is more related to the recipe that works out than the personnel of the team, then we'll have progressed.

tony d said:
Price being hurt definitely is a problem but no team should be playing as bad as Montreal has since Price got hurt. Time for guys like Pacioretty, Subban, Gallagher and Galchenyuk to step up and get this team out of the doldrums.
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They still played good when Price was first injured... Condon started 10-2-3 before losing 9 in a row
 
Last edited:
Maybe people are assuming it was PK... I mean he didn't name him, but he actually meant #67? Who was the one that screwed up his defensive assignment on the rush.
 
armani said:
Can't believe Therrien threw PK under the bus. PK, your highest scorer and best player not named Carey, is the reason for your record Therrien?
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There is tons of blame to go around the team for thinking the team is far better then it really is the gm for not making moves the coach for well bad coaching.
 
Caeldan said:
Maybe people are assuming it was PK... I mean he didn't name him, but he actually meant #67? Who was the one that screwed up his defensive assignment on the rush.
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Subban was the only one to get benched, so i think it is pretty safe to assume that he was talking about Subban.

You may be right though, but it is still weird that Subban was the only one to get benched from that play.
 
if MT was talking about #67, it would not match up with benching him late in the game

it was a 5 on 4 to try to tie up the game, and subban didn't play any of it, and it went horribly as expected
 
DrunkUncleDenis said:
Ya, this sort of feels like when they got Galchenyuk 3rd overall. They were a good team, bombed hard for one year and got a great pick, then were right back up the standings the year after.
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They may end up getting a great pick here which is the consolation prize.

But I have a hard time seeing a team implode like they have this year, dusting themselves off and turning back into the team they thought they were. The bubble has popped. This was an organization that felt they were very close - they've had some success in the playoffs, young players are starting to hit their prime. They were also in denial that Price wasn't the whole team.

Edit: also meant to say Therrien is such a dumbdumb. Every time he takes a risk and does or says something bold he comes off like such a weirdo.
 
I see that people are trying to protect Subban, but he is not criticized for his play ON the ice. He apparently has ennemies in the dressing room. Montreal media are talking about 7-8 guys that don't get along with Subban at all. Apparently he is "bigger than the team", he comes off as a ***


armani said:
PK Subban for Bobby Ryan, Perron, Wikstrand, and a sloppy second.
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I know that the grass is always greener on the other side, but that deal would hurt the Sens badly. Not to mention that would mean we won't be able to re-sign Karlsson.
 
Will be interesting to see how much of a suspension Komarov gets. It was pretty blatant and the NHL has seemed to be fairly tough lately on that type of headshot - I'm going to guess he gets 10
 
Lenny the Lynx said:
Will be interesting to see how much of a suspension Komarov gets. It was pretty blatant and the NHL has seemed to be fairly tough lately on that type of headshot - I'm going to guess he gets 10
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If it was any where but Toronto he would get 10-20 but since its Toronto he will get 3-5.
 
Xspyrit said:
Subban is dynamic and talented but the 2nd best D-man in the league? Maybe offensively...

Karlsson is by far the best offensively but he is also far to be the best defensively. Of course, Sens score a lot of goals when he is on the ice, but he is consistently among the D-men that get scored the most against when he is on the ice. He is a bit like Spezza in that sense...

198th in GA/60 at ES out of 218 D-men with 200 minutes or more this season... the SV% he receives is 0.910

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...=200&teamid=0&type=goals&sort=A60&sortdir=ASC

2014-15 : 163/238 (924 SV%)
2013-14 : 213/243 (916 SV%)
2012-13 : 065/241 (939 SV%) *100 minutes and +
2011-12 : 158/241 (920 SV%)
2010-11 : 209/237 (911 SV%)
2009-10 : 172/233 (896 SV%)

Karlsson and the way he plays is a good reason why the Sens struggle defensively. He is the epitome of high scoring games.



Ron Fournier and other medias are actually running Subban out of town, making him the villain. The Habs are such a gong show right now :popcorn:



True, but Price can make any team look stellar... Imagine the Sens with Price



Well, Sens made the playoffs without Karlsson and Spezza, and even Anderson... And again, without Anderson (if you check the last 2 times the Sens made the playoffs). But people here repeat non-stop that this team would be the worst without Karlsson and Anderson :laugh:

When people will start understanding than the success in the NHL is more related to the recipe that works out than the personnel of the team, then we'll have progressed.



They still played good when Price was first injured... Condon started 10-2-3 before losing 9 in a row
Click to expand...

I've taken & continue to take a lot of crap for saying exactly the bolded part & agree completely on the recipe comment. It was just a matter of time before some of Subban's teammates would get pissed with all the publicity he gets, the media especially from Toronto HNIC love him.
 
aragorn said:
I've taken & continue to take a lot of crap for saying exactly the bolded part & agree completely on the recipe comment. It was just a matter of time before some of Subban's teammates would get pissed with all the publicity he gets, the media especially from Toronto HNIC love him.
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remember to be rigorous about anything that's posted. there's a lot of questions that it raises. i believe his recent analysis on a different thread goes into better detail but i only glanced
 
I think Condon stole a couple games early on in that 10-2-3 run just on adrenaline. He has quick reflexes (MMA training).
He just is very poor technically and eventually got figured out.

It's just like when you're playing pickup against an older goalie who is pure standup... initially you are shooting on him in ways you'd expect would beat someone who goes down - but he's stopping everything because his style is strong against those shots. Then you realize the weaknesses and just keep garbage going in around his feet instead.

And then on top of that the team lost its swagger when it was realized how long term Price was going to be out.
 
The defensive structure of the Habs wasn't great to begin with. Offense was always going to be a struggle but Price being injured proved there was a lack of defensive structure. Something most non-Habs fans were pointing out for a while.

As soon as Price went down - it was like a car driving on fumes. They managed to keep it going for a bit but eventually the lack of a superstar goalie, the lack of defensive structure (defense and centermen) caught up with them.

Condon and Scrivens are fine. They're not elite goalies but you put them on say St. Louis - a team with great structure and they'd look amazing just like Elliott.

Elliott was serviceable for us. Not great but serviceable.

But on the Habs? It's just a disaster if you put in a mediocre/good goalie.

Lack of structure defensively. From the games I've seen - it's mostly the defensive pairings + the 3rd man back (usually the centerman) with horrendous coverage.
 
Lehner looking good so far.

I still think the Sens should have given Lehner one more season.
 
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