Around the NHL XI: Second Round Edition

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

He's adjusted to Sutter's system and new teammates well and has looked good next to Kopitar. Thru tonight's game, Gabby now has 24 points in 24 games as a King.
For Frattin and a 2nd,...oh yeah, any day of the week.

Kopitar is the best player Gaborik has ever played with. He's also an absolute beast. Glad to see him put in a position to succeed. He's a great player and a very likable guy.

For the record, I totally thought he was done. Very happy to be wrong on this one.

 

[Cassano]

It does sting quite a bit that the Kings poach an elite winger for scrap pieces when they're already loaded with an offensive arsenal, meanwhile the Rangers have to presumably hand over heart-and-soul players and draft picks in return for players with similar/lesser impact. That's the effect of having Sather/Gorton running the team.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

It does sting quite a bit that the Kings poach an elite winger for scrap pieces when they're already loaded with an offensive arsenal, meanwhile the Rangers have to presumably hand over heart-and-soul players and draft picks in return for players with similar/lesser impact. That's the effect of having Sather/Gorton running the team.

I don't think Gaborik would be playing this well with whatever center/winger combo he'd play with here compared to Kopitar and one of Carter/Williams.

 

[Cassano]

I don't think Gaborik would be playing this well with whatever center/winger combo he'd play with here compared to Kopitar and one of Carter/Williams.

Gaborik is playing LW quite effectively. I think he could've fit in like a glove in AV's system. The sound of Zuccarello and Gaborik sounds enticing, but you're quite right. There is probably no other player in the world playing better than Kopitar right now.

Speaking of the Kings, could they amnesty Mike Richards?

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Gaborik is playing LW quite effectively. I think he could've fit in like a glove in AV's system. The sound of Zuccarello and Gaborik sounds enticing, but you're quite right. There is probably no other player in the world playing better than Kopitar right now.

Speaking of the Kings, could they amnesty Mike Richards?

Yeah, I noticed that he's slid over the the left side quite well. Again, though...Kopitar, lol. Guy's a ****ing animal. St. Louis is great, but Kopitar is solidifying himself as a legitimately elite player right now.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

I think Gabby is tailor made to play with a center like Kopitar. The main thing is Gabby isn't the biggest threat on the line. So he can be his regular ninja like self and pop up out of nowhere because everyone is focused on Kopi, who has such good vision he can always find Gabby. They're a great combo.

 

[stan the caddy]

Gaborik was real lazy his last year here and his time in Columbus. Nice to see him wake up in the playoffs I guess.

 

[The Lunatic Fridge]

Gaborik was real lazy his last year here and his time in Columbus. Nice to see him wake up in the playoffs I guess.

Ugh..he had a broken collarbone of his time in colombus and when he didn't he regularly clicked with dubinsky

 

[Ola]

I agree with most of the above, AND, don't underestimate the impact of Doughty (and Voynov) in LA.

Someone said that Kopitar is the best player Gabby played with, in reality it's actually Doughty.

Gabby still has the/some gods. But stats always comes down to this in hockey. First and foremost, in hockey you need to be a part of effective mechanisms to put up stats on a regular basis. Pouliot is a good example of this, there are like 3-4 plays that he is involved in on a night by night basis, and it seems like 75% of his goals comes from those plays. Him driving to the far post, that tip on the PP etc. If you play in a shooting role on the PP and the guys around you can get you open, 5-20% will go in, there is a big difference but pucks will always go in sooner or later.

This is why MSL can be a point per game player in Tampa and then score almost nothing for us in just short of 20 games after a trade, hockey is NOT an INDIVIDUAL game. He was part of certain effective mechanisms in Tampa that we didn't provide for him, and off the map he went for a long while.

And this kind of pisses me of, because if it's one thing not only fans fail to recognize in this org, but the absolute top of it, it's the importance of those mechanisms. Examplified more than anything else by the Richards signing, he had only been effective in this league in one specific environment, while we wrote a blanc cheque to him and put him in a cometely diffrent environment.

I've seen a player himself be the driving force behind creating the mentioned mechanism. Hence why Jagr was so hard manage for example, he would demand an absolute compliance to his demands from all players on the ice with him.

If we look at a player like Rich Nash right now, he (i) is not able to himself architect these mechanisms, and (ii) we as a team definitely aren't and hasn't all year created them for him. Nash isn't taking 2 identical shots every game of which at the worst time 1/20 will go in when he is cold, and maybe 1/5 when he is hot. And WITHOUT ANY SINGLE DOUBT any player need that type of platform to put up like 0.75+ PPG. The "easy" pts / goals. The option to just be able to get back to the basis and work yourself through a tough patch.

And since Nyls and JJ were split up, given that we have no offensive punch from the blueline, we just hasn't had many effective mechanisms to turn to for our bigger names. And it's a big problem, because these stars -- that you must have -- implode when they can't perform and they face the pressure of NY.

 

[Rangers ftw]

Gaborik was real lazy his last year here and his time in Columbus. Nice to see him wake up in the playoffs I guess.

At least Gaborik disn't shy away from all physical contact like his "replacement" Nash. Oh, he did score as well. Didn't like letting Gabe go then, but the situation with Tortz wasn't sustainable.

 

[Swept In Seven]

At least Gaborik disn't shy away from all physical contact like his "replacement" Nash. Oh, he did score as well. Didn't like letting Gabe go then, but the situation with Tortz wasn't sustainable.

Lets be reality, Gabby was and still is softer than baby ****. I love the guy and I respect him for coming in here and being a superstar for the majority of his tenure, but to say he didn't shy away from contact is incredibly revisionist.

Not that I blame him, all those injuries, I wouldn't have wanted him to be banging it out in the trenches or taking contact that he didn't need to take. He is what he is, a guy that stealthily pops up in the scoring areas using his speed and senses. Now he has a center that is taking most of the heat from the D and he is able to do what he does easier.

 

[Ola]

If Nash can rid himself of his concussion problems, I definitely rather take him over Gabby.

The downside with Gabby is that he is first and foremost a counterattack player, an he is not strong on the puck nor very dangerous down low.

A contender can carry a player like that in a Marian Hossa role, but the top line on a contender must be designed to win momentum and be able to push the other team back more. Nash, while not optimal, is much better at the later than Gabby.

And like we are seeing all over the league, winning the momentum battle is all that matters really. 5-10 years ago, you could take of your own end and be effective offensively and beat anyone, now, if a team starts to be able to push you back, it spells problem instantly. Gabby is not a player that wins momentum for you in any way really. Playing Nash takes much more effort for any team.

 

[KOVALEV022473]

It's actually pretty dispicable, the hate that Gaborik recieved(s) on this board. He and Jags have probably been the best post lockout players this team has had! Talk about revisionist.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

he didn't want to leave

He waived a NTC. If he wanted to stay he could have nixed any trade.

Gaborik hated Tortarella.

 

[jniklast]

It's actually pretty dispicable, the hate that Gaborik recieved(s) on this board. He and Jags have probably been the best post lockout players this team has had! Talk about revisionist.

I assume you mean forwards or the very least skaters? Lundqvist without a doubt and by now probably McD as well have been better than Gaborik ever was.

The problem with Gabs was though, that at the end of his tenure here he was a shell of his self and overall had two great and two very mediocre years here. That has tainted his legacy here. The trade definitely was a good one and I'd do it again and again.

 

[Loff]

Gabby's so soff rite.

 

[KOVALEV022473]

I assume you mean forwards or the very least skaters? Lundqvist without a doubt and by now probably McD as well have been better than Gaborik ever was.

The problem with Gabs was though, that at the end of his tenure here he was a shell of his self and overall had two great and two very mediocre years here. That has tainted his legacy here. The trade definitely was a good one and I'd do it again and again.

Without Jagr, do we make the playoffs any years he was here? Do we make the ECF without Gabby?

 

[Swept In Seven]

It's actually pretty dispicable, the hate that Gaborik recieved(s) on this board. He and Jags have probably been the best post lockout players this team has had! Talk about revisionist.

I love Gabby, I hate how Torts handled him. I wasn't hating on him by calling him soft, I was stating a fact. He is a great hockey player, but he isn't a guy that is effective in the tougher facets of the game

 

[jniklast]

Without Jagr, do we make the playoffs any years he was here? Do we make the ECF without Gabby?

No and probably no. But what does that have to do with my post? We don't make the playoffs without Hank either in quite a few years and we don't make it to the ECF without Richards, so what's your point? I fully agree that Jagr, along with Hank, has been the best player post lockout. And Gaborik (at least in his "on" years) is either #3 or #4.

 

[BBKers]

No and probably no. But what does that have to do with my post? We don't make the playoffs without Hank either in quite a few years and we don't make it to the ECF without Richards, so what's your point? I fully agree that Jagr, along with Hank, has been the best player post lockout. And Gaborik (at least in his "on" years) is either #3 or #4.

1. Hank
2. JJ
3. McD
4. Nylander
5. Gaborik

Cally, girardi, Staal hm

 

[jniklast]

1. Hank
2. JJ
3. McD
4. Nylander
5. Gaborik

With Nylander it's a strange case. He had unreal chemistry with Jagr and Straka and in that role probably was our best center post lockout. However I find it difficult to rate him above Gaborik, at least if we are looking at "best season" and less for consistency.

 

[BBKers]

With Nylander it's a strange case. He had unreal chemistry with Jagr and Straka and in that role probably was our best center post lockout. However I find it difficult to rate him above Gaborik, at least if we are looking at "best season" and less for consistency.

Nylanders line dominated almost every shift. They were really fun to watch. The chemistry he had with JJ and Straka was unreal at times. Never before or after his sejour in NYC did he reach that level. But I must say that in NYC he really peaked in a strange cerebral way. Gaborik had 2 great years as well, but had a real stinker his last year for the unemployed maniac and that brings his overall grade down a bit. But you have valid points

 

[eco's bones]

I agree with most of the above, AND, don't underestimate the impact of Doughty (and Voynov) in LA.

Someone said that Kopitar is the best player Gabby played with, in reality it's actually Doughty.

Gabby still has the/some gods. But stats always comes down to this in hockey. First and foremost, in hockey you need to be a part of effective mechanisms to put up stats on a regular basis. Pouliot is a good example of this, there are like 3-4 plays that he is involved in on a night by night basis, and it seems like 75% of his goals comes from those plays. Him driving to the far post, that tip on the PP etc. If you play in a shooting role on the PP and the guys around you can get you open, 5-20% will go in, there is a big difference but pucks will always go in sooner or later.

This is why MSL can be a point per game player in Tampa and then score almost nothing for us in just short of 20 games after a trade, hockey is NOT an INDIVIDUAL game. He was part of certain effective mechanisms in Tampa that we didn't provide for him, and off the map he went for a long while.

And this kind of pisses me of, because if it's one thing not only fans fail to recognize in this org, but the absolute top of it, it's the importance of those mechanisms. Examplified more than anything else by the Richards signing, he had only been effective in this league in one specific environment, while we wrote a blanc cheque to him and put him in a cometely diffrent environment.

I've seen a player himself be the driving force behind creating the mentioned mechanism. Hence why Jagr was so hard manage for example, he would demand an absolute compliance to his demands from all players on the ice with him.

If we look at a player like Rich Nash right now, he (i) is not able to himself architect these mechanisms, and (ii) we as a team definitely aren't and hasn't all year created them for him. Nash isn't taking 2 identical shots every game of which at the worst time 1/20 will go in when he is cold, and maybe 1/5 when he is hot. And WITHOUT ANY SINGLE DOUBT any player need that type of platform to put up like 0.75+ PPG. The "easy" pts / goals. The option to just be able to get back to the basis and work yourself through a tough patch.

And since Nyls and JJ were split up, given that we have no offensive punch from the blueline, we just hasn't had many effective mechanisms to turn to for our bigger names. And it's a big problem, because these stars -- that you must have -- implode when they can't perform and they face the pressure of NY.

If Nash can rid himself of his concussion problems, I definitely rather take him over Gabby.

The downside with Gabby is that he is first and foremost a counterattack player, an he is not strong on the puck nor very dangerous down low.

A contender can carry a player like that in a Marian Hossa role, but the top line on a contender must be designed to win momentum and be able to push the other team back more. Nash, while not optimal, is much better at the later than Gabby.

And like we are seeing all over the league, winning the momentum battle is all that matters really. 5-10 years ago, you could take of your own end and be effective offensively and beat anyone, now, if a team starts to be able to push you back, it spells problem instantly. Gabby is not a player that wins momentum for you in any way really. Playing Nash takes much more effort for any team.

Those are really two excellent posts. Pouliot playing all the time with two playmakers pretty much has to worry about taking the body when he can and good defending when he has to and in the offensive end finding an open seam now and again. It's really a very simple game he needs to play with Brassard and Zucc--and keeping it as simple as that with his hand and shooting skills, size and strength. Anything else required of him would be just about counterproductive.

Rangers defense is a very solid defending unit--maybe as good as any in the league. The catch is that it's not really a unit that accentuates the offense of the forwards all that well. Having three lines that spread out offensive production is what has evolved over the last few years and Nash may be the most gifted offensive player and goal scorer of the bunch but it's just about if he's just another player in this kind of an environment. The 4th line is also not to be taken for granted--they can knock in goals now and again as well. A good thing about all this is it is a very, very structured environment from the goal on out to the three defense pairings to all four lines and everyone--even the part timers have pretty much figured out their roles.

 

[KOVALEV022473]

I love Gabby, I hate how Torts handled him. I wasn't hating on him by calling him soft, I was stating a fact. He is a great hockey player, but he isn't a guy that is effective in the tougher facets of the game

I agree 100%. However, the tougher aspects are not his game. I think fans need to understand that players are most effective in their particular roles and when they are asked to do more than that, they become a detriment. I think Torts has some culpability in that.

 

[Doctyl]

I loved Gabs, but we absolutely won that trade. Also I know the cool thing to do around here is hate your stars and reminiss when they're gone, but I feel Nash is more of a complete player than Gaborik. Obviously right now Gabs is hot and Nash is struggling but over their first 2 seasons as rangers, their ppg is very similar. Nash is more physical than Gaborik. Nash also plays a much better 2 way game than Gaborik. I do think Gaborik is a better pure offensive threat. Honestly I would rather have Nash, and I was one of Gaboriks biggest defenders when he was here.