OT: Around the NHL: The Countdown to Camp

[systemsgo]

I doubt it. This will get buried and they'll do another round of "He's matured, look! He's grown up." Then they wait for another mess.

If there's no prosecution, I bet that's what they'll do. If Kane is prosecuted - and NHL doesn't suspend him like they did Voynov, I don't expect the Hawks will do anything about it. It's not anything against the Hawks specifically, but it's just what I think most teams would do.

 

[Deutschland Dangler]

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/sources-kane-target-of-rape-investigation-20150806

The article mentions it's a rape accusation and the woman in question went to a hospital where a test has been conducted. Also says he has not been charged (yet?).
I myself am not sure how reliable the Buffalo News is but it seems like the first really substantiated article on the matter that is not based on Twitter speculation.

 

[Ogrezilla]

If there's no prosecution, I bet that's what they'll do. If Kane is prosecuted - and NHL doesn't suspend him like they did Voynov, I don't expect the Hawks will do anything about it. It's not anything against the Hawks specifically, but it's just what I think most teams would do.

I think that's the right thing to do, honestly. If he is found to be innocent, the league should treat him like he's innocent.

 

[systemsgo]

I think that's the right thing to do, honestly. If he is found to be innocent, the league should treat him like he's innocent.

Not guilty isn't the same as innocent though. When alcohol is involved, you get a few different camps. People who think no means no - no matter when it's said, people who think no means yes because they're playing hard to get, people who think that girls who party/drink are "asking for it". And when a famous person is involved, there's allegations of greed there as well. It's going to be very hard to prove imo.

 

[OnMyOwn]

Sexual assault cases take months to charge anyone. The number of false reports is actually higher than legit cases...even with a rape kit being done because that's up to the "victim" anyway.

They'll interview both of them multiple times, check any cameras, witnesses, etc.

Don't expect a statement of charges or no charges any time soon. You don't rush a case like this.

 

[PensBandwagonerNo272*]

The number of false reports is actually higher than legit cases

No.

 

[OnMyOwn]

No.

And how do you know this? I work in the field and deal with this.

The percentage of ***** that go unreported is high, yes, but according to numbers of reported sexual assaults, false reports outweigh legit sexual assaults...it's simple statistics.

 

[PensBandwagonerNo272*]

i work in the field too

it's simple statistics



jokes aside, it's estimated that around 5% are false claims







in other news, there are pink elephants on mars

i work in the field

 

[OnMyOwn]

Ok then.

That's not the numbers I see. I work in law enforcement in a heavy 18-22 year old population where sexual assault reports are common. As in several a week. The amount of charges filed compared to the amount of claims doesn't equal 95% charged 5% not charged.

Whether it be due to lack of evidence or completely false claims. I don't get why you're being a dick about this.

 

[Deutschland Dangler]

Whether it be due to lack of evidence or completely false claims.

But you said false claims. If there is not enough evidence for filing charges that doesn't mean the claims are false.

 

[PensBandwagonerNo272*]

Ok then.

That's not the numbers I see. I work in law enforcement in a heavy 18-22 year old population where sexual assault reports are common. As in several a week. The amount of charges filed compared to the amount of claims doesn't equal 95% charged 5% not charged.

Whether it be due to lack of evidence or completely false claims. I don't get why you're being a dick about this.

that's not what you said

 

[OnMyOwn]

But you said false claims. If there is not enough evidence for filing charges that doesn't mean the claims are false.

True, I'll admit I misspoke with the blanket statement of false reports. I was referring to the original post of "no charges(yet?)" and was explaining that these cases are not cut and dry and from what I've seen, most lead to no charges.

 

[systemsgo]

Ok then.

That's not the numbers I see. I work in law enforcement in a heavy 18-22 year old population where sexual assault reports are common. As in several a week. The amount of charges filed compared to the amount of claims doesn't equal 95% charged 5% not charged.

Whether it be due to lack of evidence or completely false claims. I don't get why you're being a dick about this.

well, you came off as a dick first.


I came in here wanting to post that I was over at the main boards thread, and I was really pleased to see a lot of Pens fans who were posting the right things and was so glad to be among good company and I see your posts.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Ok then.

That's not the numbers I see. I work in law enforcement in a heavy 18-22 year old population where sexual assault reports are common. As in several a week. The amount of charges filed compared to the amount of claims doesn't equal 95% charged 5% not charged.

Whether it be due to lack of evidence or completely false claims. I don't get why you're being a dick about this.

There's a difference between a victim choosing not to file charges because they are embarrassed, afraid, a lack of evidence or not having the means to go through with a long legal process and flat-out lying about being assaulted.

If you really do work in the law enforcement, you shouldn't be making comments that "the number of false reports is higher than the number of legit cases."

It's attitudes like that which stop both women and men from coming forward and pursuing charges. It's especially bad if they feel the people who are supposed to be protecting them don't believe them.

 

[OnMyOwn]

Sorry if I came off as a dick. I wasn't trying to be. I was just trying to share what I've experienced.

 

[systemsgo]

True, I'll admit I misspoke with the blanket statement of false reports. I was referring to the original post of "no charges(yet?)" and was explaining that these cases are not cut and dry and from what I've seen, most lead to no charges.

And you said "victim", automatically assuming it's a false allegation. It's just as dickish as people who automatically assume PKane is guilty. And you working in law enforcement is even scarier for genuine rape victims, because your attitude sucks.

Sexual assault cases take months to charge anyone. The number of false reports is actually higher than legit cases...even with a rape kit being done because that's up to the "victim" anyway.

They'll interview both of them multiple times, check any cameras, witnesses, etc.

Don't expect a statement of charges or no charges any time soon. You don't rush a case like this.

 

[OnMyOwn]

It's wrong to automatically label someone the victim. That's what the quote was for, not that I think she's lying. Jesus, I was only explaining how long the process was and to not read into the rape kit being done too much.

 

[Extra Texture]

There's a difference between a victim choosing not to file charges because they are embarrassed, afraid, a lack of evidence or not having the means to go through with a long legal process and flat-out lying about being assaulted.

If you really do work in the law enforcement, you shouldn't be making comments that "the number of false reports is higher than the number of legit cases."

It's attitudes like that which stop both women and men from coming forward and pursuing charges. It's especially bad if they feel the people who are supposed to be protecting them don't believe them.

Thank you (and the other posters) for making this point. The justice department said last year that an estimated 80% of campus sexual assaults go unreported in part because the old attitudes about "nobody will believe me". Its not hard to believe, considering its happened to several women I've known in my life, and sadly they all chose to say nothing and carry on.

 

[Deutschland Dangler]

It's wrong to automatically label someone the victim. That's what the quote was for, not that I think she's lying. Jesus, I was only explaining how long the process was and to not read into the rape kit being done too much.

It's exactly right to "label" someone the victim if he/she claims to be the a victim (note that this doesn't mean that you should automatically believe that the accused person is guilty of anything). Especially as someone who works in law enforcement and especially if you're working with victims of sexual assault. Which I'm really starting to hope you're not doing.

 

[PensBandwagonerNo272*]

There's a difference between a victim choosing not to file charges because they are embarrassed, afraid, a lack of evidence or not having the means to go through with a long legal process and flat-out lying about being assaulted.

If you really do work in the law enforcement, you shouldn't be making comments that "the number of false reports is higher than the number of legit cases."

It's attitudes like that which stop both women and men from coming forward and pursuing charges. It's especially bad if they feel the people who are supposed to be protecting them don't believe them.

Indeed. It's surprising (if not disturbing) that someone involved with law enforcement needs the obvious to be explained (if they even are).

and lmao at calling me a dick

 

[OnMyOwn]

Thank you (and the other posters) for making this point. The justice department said last year that an estimated 80% of campus sexual assaults go unreported in part because the old attitudes about "nobody will believe me". Its not hard to believe, considering its happened to several women I've known in my life, and sadly they all chose to say nothing and carry on.

And I completely agree with that. I dealt with a female for an unrelated offense who then stated she had been assaulted. I talked with her about her options and what resources were available and tried to get her to pursue but she chose not to because she didn't want to deal with it and it's a shame because she claimed to have texts from the guy.

Look guys, I'm honestly not some woman hater. I was just sharing what I've learned. Using the words "false reports" was my downfall into this pit of despair that I have to climb out of somehow.

 

[PensBandwagonerNo272*]

I came in here wanting to post that I was over at the main boards thread, and I was really pleased to see a lot of Pens fans who were posting the right things and was so glad to be among good company and I see your posts.

for sure

I don't know if I am just blindly biased but it seems like Pens fans tend to be good people.

 

[billybudd]

Kane is one stupid son of a gun. If this is true, he's a monster. If it's not, he's been playing with fire with shady characters late at night for years.

Sexual assault cases take months to charge anyone. The number of false reports is actually higher than legit cases...even with a rape kit being done because that's up to the "victim" anyway.

They'll interview both of them multiple times, check any cameras, witnesses, etc.

Don't expect a statement of charges or no charges any time soon. You don't rush a case like this.

i work in the field too

it's simple statistics



jokes aside, it's estimated that around 5% are false claims

This is actually something that's not known, but the 41-50% number, while problematic, has more backing than the 2-5% number, which is often cited, but sources only to a 50 year old book by an activist who cites only a verbal remark (no accompanying data to this remark) by a single justice in the New York State Court of Appeals. The FBI has variously estimated provably false rape claims at anywhere from 8% to 22%. Local law enforcement departments have placed the number between 10% and 60%, depending on the jurisdiction.

Bottom line, nobody knows the answer to this question and probably nobody ever will.

Further reading here and here

 

[Ally22]

There's a difference between a victim choosing not to file charges because they are embarrassed, afraid, a lack of evidence or not having the means to go through with a long legal process and flat-out lying about being assaulted.

If you really do work in the law enforcement, you shouldn't be making comments that "the number of false reports is higher than the number of legit cases."

It's attitudes like that which stop both women and men from coming forward and pursuing charges. It's especially bad if they feel the people who are supposed to be protecting them don't believe them.

Thanks for this post. Pretty much sums up everything way more eloquently than I would be able to

I'm sure Patrick Kane will cry on TV again and Hawks fans will forget and/or handwave away his behaviour until the next time

 

[Your Boy Troy]

I will stay neutral, until a lot more information about this investigation comes out. Both Kane's and the victim's past shouldn't be used to try to justify supporting a side.