OT: Around the NHL: The Countdown to Camp

[Ogrezilla]

It's a valid comparison if last season was just a fluke for Voracek. He's closer to Perron than he is Kessel or Perry.

Career average point pace for an 82 game season

Perron: 48.6 points per 82 games
Voracek: 57.4 points per 82 games
Kessel: 63.8 points per 82 games
Perry: 68.4 points per 82 games

Last 3 seasons

Perron: 50.5 points per 82 games
Voracek: 73.1 points per 82 games
Kessel: 74.7 points per 82 games
Perry: 73.9 points per 82 games

In conclusion: You're wrong. Over their entire careers, you're kind of close, but still wrong. Over the last three years, you are very very wrong. Voracek has been within 1 or 2 points of PPG hockey 2 of the last 3 seasons. And he still scored more in the other year than Perron's career best.

 

[Ogrezilla]

For what it's worth, MJ said he'd stick to what works.

as long as its working, that's fine. But if it stops working so well, I hope he realizes he can change things a bit. He can even change them back without waiting for it to stop working again.

 

[Darth Vitale]

Career average point pace for an 82 game season

Perron: 48.6 points per 82 games
Voracek: 57.4 points per 82 games
Kessel: 63.8 points per 82 games
Perry: 68.4 points per 82 games

Last 3 seasons

Perron: 50.5 points per 82 games
Voracek: 73.1 points per 82 games
Kessel: 74.7 points per 82 games
Perry: 73.9 points per 82 games

In conclusion: You're wrong. Over their entire careers, you're kind of close, but still wrong. Over the last three years, you are very very wrong. Voracek has been within 1 or 2 points of PPG hockey 2 of the last 3 seasons. And he still scored more in the other year than Perron's career best.

Yep. Pretty hard to argue with that. Voracek played a few years without any real help but since playing with Giroux has shown his full potential, IMO. It could be argued Perron didn't have his Giroux (and now he does), but he'd have to put up some crazy numbers the next two years to draw that conclusion.

 

[Shockmaster]

Career average point pace for an 82 game season

Perron: 48.6 points per 82 games
Voracek: 57.4 points per 82 games
Kessel: 63.8 points per 82 games
Perry: 68.4 points per 82 games

Last 3 seasons

Perron: 50.5 points per 82 games
Voracek: 73.1 points per 82 games
Kessel: 74.7 points per 82 games
Perry: 73.9 points per 82 games

In conclusion: You're wrong. Over their entire careers, you're kind of close, but still wrong. Over the last three years, you are very very wrong. Voracek has been within 1 or 2 points of PPG hockey 2 of the last 3 seasons. And he still scored more in the other year than Perron's career best.

And when it comes to actual goal scoring?

 

[tom_servo]

I like Perron, but his name needs to not be mentioned with Voracek.

 

[Ogrezilla]

And when it comes to actual goal scoring?

so assists don't count then? I'm assuming you'd rank Sid and Geno behind better goal scorers like Stamkos and Perry? And Ovi is just far and away better than anyone we've got.

This is one of the dumber HF conversations I've had in a while.

 

[tom_servo]

Goalscorers tend to drop off faster than playmakers.

 

[mpp9]

One guy didn't do much of anything for us for 2 months. The other almost won a scoring title. Are we ****ing serious right now?

 

[Shockmaster]

One guy didn't do much of anything for us for 2 months. The other almost won a scoring title. Are we ****ing serious right now?

If the other guy falls back to earth, yeah.

 

[Ogrezilla]

If the other guy falls back to earth, yeah.

What do you mean fall back to earth? He's been scoring like this for just about half of his career now.

 

[Shockmaster]

What do you mean fall back to earth? He's been scoring like this for just about half of his career now.

If you're still talking about points, then no. Last year he was an 80-point player, before he was anywhere between 45 and 60 points. If his goal totals stay the same (between 20-25 goals), then him falling back down to earth isn't at all hard to see.

 

[Ogrezilla]

If you're still talking about points, then no. Last year he was an 80-point player, before he was anywhere between 45 and 60 points. If his goal totals stay the same (between 20-25 goals), then him falling back down to earth isn't at all hard to see.

did you look at games played? One of those 45-60 points season was the lockout 48 game season. And his other 45-60 point season you are referring to was a 62 point season Which, btw, is still better than Perron's best season. While being sandwiched between a 46 in 48 season and an 81 in 82 season.

 

[Shockmaster]

did you look at games played? One of those 45-60 points season was the lockout 48 game season. And his other 45-60 point season you are referring to was a 62 point season Which, btw, is still better than Perron's best season. While being sandwiched between a 46 in 48 season and an 81 in 82 season

So you're implying that in no way last season was an outlier and that he'll keep having 80 point seasons?

 

[Ogrezilla]

So you're implying that in no way last season was an outlier and that he'll keep having 80 point seasons?

I'm not saying that. But I'm saying if he falls back down to earth, he'll still be scoring mid 60s or 70s. Which is Kessel numbers, not Perron numbers. But he has played 2 of the last 3 seasons at an 80 point pace, so its certainly not hard to believe he'll do it again.


Perron: 0.59 points per game over the last 3 seasons.
Voracek: 0.89 points per game over the last 3 seasons.

Based on that, 70-75 points seems like a good projection. That still puts him in the top 20 scorers in the league.

 

[Asuna]

I'm not saying that. But I'm saying if he falls back down to earth, he'll still be scoring mid 60s or 70s. Which is Kessel numbers, not Perron numbers. But he has played 2 of the last 3 seasons at an 80 point pace, so its certainly not hard to believe he'll do it again.


Perron: 0.59 points per game over the last 3 seasons.
Voracek: 0.89 points per game over the last 3 seasons.

Based on that, 70-75 points seems like a good projection. That still puts him in the top 20 scorers in the league. Going back up to the top of this page for the per 82 stats, that's within a point of Kessel and Perry's averages over those times, and 23 points higher than Perron's.

I agree with your point...but Voracek has played with Giroux the past 3 years as well. That definitely helps his numbers a bit.

If both players are healthy and Perron plays with Crosby/Malkin for a full year it'll be interesting to see how the numbers compare.

(voracek would still come out ahead cause he's a mf'ing Czech boss.)

 

[Ogrezilla]

I agree with your point...but Voracek has played with Giroux the past 3 years as well. That definitely helps his numbers a bit.

If both players are healthy and Perron plays with Crosby/Malkin for a full year it'll be interesting to see how the numbers compare.

(voracek would still come out ahead cause he's a mf'ing Czech boss.)

You're arguing that Perron can be better. I agree to a point, though we likely won't find out since he won't be on the top powerplay.

That's clearly not what Shockmaster is saying though.

 

[tom_servo]

Voracek plays with Giroux... and outperformed Giroux.

 

[Asuna]

You're arguing that Perron can be better. I agree to a point, though we likely won't find out since he won't be on the top powerplay.

That's clearly not what Shockmaster is saying though.

He can, and will be better.

 

[Pete Gas]

Is Voracek the new greatest player on the planet?

 

[Ogrezilla]

He can, and will be better.

I agree. I figure he'll score something around 20-25 goals and 25-35 assists. Considering he won't have top powerplay time, that would be pretty damn good.

Is Voracek the new greatest player on the planet?

Nope, but he's been a great one for a while now.

 

[Shady Machine]

I actually hope they don't stick with a full time set of lines. Play matchups. Change things up if we start to slump a bit. The style of play of our sets of top 6 wings is going to be incredibly different. If a team is having success stopping them, switch the wings. Give each of their matchups an entirely different game to defend against.

We should be able to do similar in the bottom 6. Including bumping guys up and down between the bottom 6 and the LW across from Kessel. Maybe you need some speed and give Dupuis a shift or two there. Maybe you know they have a D who tends to shy away from hits and you throw Plotnikov there.

We have good enough wings that we have more than one legitimately good option for setting up every single line. I hope we take advantage of that.

Sure that's fine in theory but Malkin and Crosby have seen so many different wingers over the years, it would be nice to get some consistency. JR mentioned wanting Sid and Geno to have consistent wingers so I'm just basing it off that. One should get Kessel the other should get Hornqvist and Perron.

If one of those lines struggles for a while then sure switch it up but it's important for them to establish chemistry first.

One thing we need to keep in mind is there has been a really high roster turnover since Shero was fired. Up front only Sid, Geno, Dupuis, Kunitz, and Bennett remain. On D, Letang, Maatta, and Scuds. I hope they experiment and mix and match as necessary, but it's important to establish the lines and d pairs they think work best and have some consistency there heading into playoffs.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I think being able to adjust is more important than consistency. Don't have a rotating cast of guys including guys like Winnik and Downie and Connor and other bums. But having the same 4 or 5 top 6 wings in different combinations is plenty consistent imo. The Hawks basically play with two top 6 setups: one with Toews and Kane split up and one with them together. Detroit does it with Zetterberg and Datsyuk. I wouldn't do it with Sid and Geno with any regularity, but with Kessel I think we have a pretty ridiculous ability to mess with their matchups. I really hope we take advantage of it.

For the bottom 6, I'm really hoping everyone plays as well as I think they can. I think its possible we have two pretty even lines once Fehr is back. I wouldn't shuffle those lines up as much as just let them compete line vs line for ice time.

 

[tom_servo]

Sutter signs in Vancouver. $4.375 mil x 5 years.

 

[Gallatin]

Sutter signs in Vancouver. $4.375 mil x 5 years.

Their fans will be hating that deal by the time it kicks in.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

The thought of six years of Brandon Sutter under contract just made me shiver.