Around the NHL: Part XVIII

[Edge]

And maybe in 4 years we can say they finally drafted a decent player outside the top 10 when he makes the team

That's part of what will be interesting to see. There's such a void before Newhook and Timmons, that even if those guys are successful sooner rather than later, it's going to be felt.

I'll be honest with you, it's one of the reasons I still feel like we need one more exclamation point in this organization. Now obviously I am not going to root against what this team is currently doing, especially if it means young players are growing into roles, but I do feel like we need one more top-end talent to compliment the good amount of depth we've acquired.

In some ways, we're almost the opposite of Colorado and Edmonton. I worry less about our ability to find depth, and a little more about having quite enough high-power ammo.

 

[NYR Viper]

Colorado, and to a lesser extent Sakic, is at the point where they should/need to start producing depth.

The challenge for them, is that anything pre-2017 doesn't seem to be charging in over the horizon, and even if Timmons (2017) and Newhook (2019) reverse that trend, it's going to take a few years.

What they will have is a lot of top-end, high-impact talent --- especially when Byram joins Makar in the show.

But Kaut has struggled, Jost hasn't met expectations and the high water mark for non first round picks is still Butcher from six years ago --- and he's playing in the swamp as we speak.

Unfortunately for them, the lack of results via the draft is going to cost them at some point. Because it's quite likely that they're going to need to move bodies at some point for depth.

Otherwise they run the risk of falling into the trap that a lot of teams have fallen into over the past decade: not having the depth to push balanced teams in the playoffs, and overly relying on high-end skill to carry the team. In turn, they fall in love with that high-end skill and get heartburn about moving one of those guys for two or three less flashy pieces.

What they should do, and have begun doing, is making shrewd UFA signings and trading picks for semi-established talent. Not 1st rounder, but 2nd's, 3rd's etc. They started that with Burakovsky and Donskoi

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

That's part of what will be interesting to see. There's such a void before Newhook and Timmons, that even if those guys are successful sooner rather than later, it's going to be felt.

I'll be honest with you, it's one of the reasons I still feel like we need one more exclamation point in this organization. Now obviously I am not going to root against what this team is currently doing, especially if it means young players are growing into roles, but I do feel like we need one more top-end talent to compliment the good amount of depth we've acquired.

In some ways, we're almost the opposite of Colorado and Edmonton. I worry less about our ability to find depth, and a little more about having quite enough high-power ammo.

We definitely need another big piece.

LA: Kopitar, Doughty
Chicago: Toews, Kane
Pittsburgh: Malkin, Crosby
Washington: Ovechkin, Backstrom

It just feels like our rebuild isn't complete without another high pick.

 

[Edge]

What they should do, and have begun doing, is making shrewd UFA signings and trading picks for semi-established talent. Not 1st rounder, but 2nd's, 3rd's etc. They started that with Burakovsky and Donskoi

And that's part of a potential path forward for them, as it should be for Edmonton.

Will it be enough? I have my doubts, but time will tell.

But you're post alludes to a key point that all teams have to understand at some point --- playing to your strengths, and minimizing your weaknesses.

If you're an organization, like Edmonton or Colorado, and drafting outside the first hasn't been a strength, then you might want to consider using those picks in a different manner.

 

[Edge]

We definitely need another big piece.

LA: Kopitar, Doughty
Chicago: Toews, Kane
Pittsburgh: Malkin, Crosby
Washington: Ovechkin, Backstrom

It just feels like our rebuild isn't complete without another high pick.

The ideal scenario for me, in a world where the ideal seldom happens, is for the Rangers young talent and roster to make progress, but ultimately just miss the playoffs. IMO, I think that's probably going to happen.

The second part, and the one with the longest odds, is then having this team somehow win the lottery and pick in the top three. That potentially gets them another big piece. I also think it's more or less off to the races after that and after having moved Kreider, Strome and probably a goalie.

The more likely scenario is that at some point, the Rangers use their depth to make a deal for a big piece. If things keep going this way, they'll have the depth to pull off such a move.

 

[LokiDog]

Edge, I agree with your assessment but I also think you can point to Colorado and Edmonton as two teams with a common problem but divergent solutions. It’s early, but Sakic looks to have done a good job insulating his talent via trade and free agency and now guys like Girard and Burakovsky who are still young are complimenting the high octane guys while Kadri, Donskoi, Calvert, Bellemare, Johnson, Cole, Zadorov are providing pretty good veteran depth. If they buy at the deadline (and they’re one of few teams with cap space) they’ll be even deeper. While Edmonton has arguably the two best players on the planet right now they’ve struggled with poor management never being able to fill in around them. Sakic has done well in spite of drafting issues.

 

[Edge]

Edge, I agree with your assessment but I also think you can point to Colorado and Edmonton as two teams with a common problem but divergent solutions. It’s early, but Sakic looks to have done a good job insulating his talent via trade and free agency and now guys like Girard and Burakovsky who are still young are complimenting the high octane guys while Kadri, Donskoi, Calvert, Bellemare, Johnson, Cole, Zadorov are providing pretty good veteran depth. If they buy at the deadline (and they’re one of few teams with cap space) they’ll be even deeper. While Edmonton has arguably the two best players on the planet right now they’ve struggled with poor management never being able to fill in around them. Sakic has done well in spite of drafting issues.

I would agree with all of that. I think Colorado is closer to finding their "solution" as it were.

I also think Colorado will have an easier time recruiting players, should they go down that route.

The key for Colorado will be avoiding falling into the Toronto/Tampa trap.

 

[LokiDog]

I would agree with all of that. I think Colorado is closer to finding their "solution" as it were.

I also think Colorado will have an easier time recruiting players, should they go down that route.

The key for Colorado will be avoiding falling into the Toronto/Tampa trap.

I’ll agree with that. I think one thing Sakic has done well is build a team whose depth has quite a bit more grit and character than those two squads and brought in some good specialty role players like Bellemare.

 

[Maximus]

There's also this Pastrnak guy.

Yeah Pasta is certainly in the mix as well but as phenomenal as Pasta has been this year, and this is not a slight or taking anything away from him, IMO, what MacKinnon has been doing the past month with no Rantanen and Landeskog by his will and incredible skill set alone has been very inspiring to observe from afar.

His ability to elevate bottom 6 type players into bonafide scoring threats like Burakovsky, Donskoi, Compher...etc, be the chief reason why a rookie in Makar looks like the 2nd coming of Brian Leetch while at same time elevating his own play to a higher level than even he has ever played at and keep his team afloat in a very competitive Central division, has been nothing short of a miracle.

I don’t think voters will forget about this come vote time either and even if McDavid and Draisaitle out point him by 20 points each or Pasta scores even 65 goals, this should be the year the hockey writers/ voters reward MacK with a well deserved Hart Trophy.

At least at the 1/3rd mark of the season, I think MacKinnon is the most deserving and is the clear MVP of the league. We’ll see how it plays out...still a lot of time left for minds to change including mine!

 

[Graves94]

Keith Kinkaid being placed on waivers by the Habs in 5 minutes...

 

[will1066]

I was watching Habs-Bruins on SN last night and they featured a spot on the Craig Conroy trade from the Kings to Flames in 2007. Hilarious story. Interestingly, the trade involved Jamie Lundmark (going to the Kings) with a pick that became Dwight Schultz.

So the story was that the Kings held a special outdoor practice in Red Deer, Alberta, for the local folks to attend. The trade was made, and after the practice the Kings left Conroy there without telling him. Conroy had no idea that the team bus had already left and he then had to arrange travel to Calgary. The Kings were in Calgary the next night, and Conroy scored two goals against his ex-mates and the Flames won.

That's the jist of it, but it was a lot funnier with Conroy telling the story. During the outdoor practice, the local TV station interviewed him and the graphics that flashed were "Craig Conroy" and "Last Skate with Kings". LMAO

 

[eco's bones]

Chelios ripping on Babcock. Says that Babcock was verbally assaulting a concussed and depressed Johan Franzen on the bench during a playoff series against Nashville and that Franzen had a nervous breakdown.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

delete

 

[eco's bones]

Franzen must have had some really thin skin.

If Franzen was concussed he shouldn't have been playing.....and depression goes hand in hand with concussions. Chelios said it was the worst thing he'd ever seen.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

If Franzen was concussed he shouldn't have been playing.....and depression goes hand in hand with concussions. Chelios said it was the worst thing he'd ever seen.

Why didn't Chelios speak up at the time if it was so terrible?

 

[Edge]

Why didn't Chelios speak up at the time if it was so terrible?

Based on my interactions with the guy. I'd be shocked if he didn't behind the scenes.

 

[eco's bones]

Why didn't Chelios speak up at the time if it was so terrible?

Chelios says the team leadership didn't do enough but that they did meet over it-Kenny Holland came down from his office to talk to them and he supported Babcock. Basically told the players that anyone that didn't like how Mike coached could come see him and he'd ship them somewhere else.

The other thing about this is Chelios contacted Spittin Chiclets because he wanted to talk about it. I got the impression that Chelios felt he and the leadership let Franzen down.

 

[nyr2k2]

Franzen must have had some really thin skin.

That's a pretty f***ed-up take, but not surprising.

 

[Edge]

Chelios says the team leadership didn't do enough but that they did meet over it-Kenny Holland came down from his office to talk to them and he supported Babcock. Basically told the players that anyone that didn't like how Mike coached could come see him and he'd ship them somewhere else.

The other thing about this is Chelios contacted Spittin Chiclets because he wanted to talk about it.

I say this somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but I really do wonder if there's a brewing wave in the NHL where there's going to be quite a few coaches and general managers with major skeletons in the closet that suddenly find those incidents exposed to the public.

In turn, I think that creates the potential for some nasty shit to come out concerning the players as well.

In any high-profile industry there's always rumors and hearsay. A lot of times, the conspiracies are far more juicy than the reality. But every once in a while, you see things. I mean really see things.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Franzen must have had some really thin skin.

Ignorant post is ignorant. I do think hockey culture is different as someone on a thread in the main boards said I actually agreed with to an extent and liked the post. But holy shit I wouldn't wish mental illness on you. This "you're depressed so you must be a p***y" mindset is antiquated.

 

[nyr2k2]

Ignorant post is ignorant. I do think hockey culture is different as someone on a thread in the main boards said I actually agreed with to an extent and liked the post. But holy **** I wouldn't mental illness on you. This "you're depressed so you must be a *****" mindset is antiquated.

Seriously. I mean, Franzen has diagnosed PTSD, anxiety disorder, and serious depression. He's had multiple concussions. And he was one of the toughest guys when he played--not in the overtly physical sense, but the amount of abuse he took without ever backing down.

But then we hear of a "nervous breakdown" and losers on the internet are complaining of him being thin-skinned. It's really unbelievable.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Seriously. I mean, Franzen has diagnosed PTSD, anxiety disorder, and serious depression. He's had multiple concussions. And he was one of the toughest guys when he played--not in the overtly physical sense, but the amount of abuse he took without ever backing down.

But then we hear of a "nervous breakdown" and losers on the internet are complaining of him being thin-skinned. It's really unbelievable.

Yeah and as I said this is accounting for the fact that sports culture is and should be different than office work culture. Even then this is a pretty terrible take.

 

[Edge]

Ignorant post is ignorant. I do think hockey culture is different as someone on a thread in the main boards said I actually agreed with to an extent and liked the post. But holy **** I wouldn't mental illness on you. This "you're depressed so you must be a *****" mindset is antiquated.

Somewhat lost in all this, aside from mental illness stigmas, is that a concussion is a brain trauma.

Trauma.

It's not a black eye and some missing teeth.

I think we forget that sometimes.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I think there's a positive correlation between fans who think Franzen is a p***y and fans that yell "shooooot" during games.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

That's a pretty ****ed-up take, but not surprising.

Ignorant post is ignorant. I do think hockey culture is different as someone on a thread in the main boards said I actually agreed with to an extent and liked the post. But holy **** I wouldn't mental illness on you. This "you're depressed so you must be a *****" mindset is antiquated.

We don't even know the full story about it.