Around the NHL - Part XLIII

[tiggles]

Look, we all know that, now that Fil isn't a Ranger anymore, he's going to put together a 300 game iron man streak

 

[noncents]

@SnowblindNYR congrats. kane scores, kakko loses it in shootout. det win

 

[Row I Goon]

Oh Kakko!

 

[ReleasO The KakkO]

Look, we all know that, now that Fil isn't a Ranger anymore, he's going to put together a 300 game iron man streak

Two games, two points. Pretty good start.

 

[TheWrongWay]

how many years had he been here before last year? how many coaches? i feel like he was the 2nd longest tenured ranger after kreids

It super does feel like that. But I think the 2nd longest active NYR is Mika. Mika has been here since guys like Zucc, Nash, Stepan, McD were here, and I believe Mika and JT Miller already played two seasons (one at the least) during JT Miller's first stint here

 

[TheWrongWay]

Because the alternative is that there's something inherently wrong with the way the team we root for is run. So it's more comforting to just tell yourself the player wasn't trying or something.

I think he tried, but he also did play timid, perimeter, and almost no impact.

I realize fans are super harsh on their respective teams. But the reality is, we win more than most teams and have for the past 20 years. In that time, the NYR are 4th in regular season wins and also have the 4th most playoff wins.

No Cup in that time frame, granted, but no Cup is true for 19 other teams in that 20-year span, as well.

I think the Rangers win a tad more than people realize and obviously, it's just a bit harder for younger players to crack a more winning lineup than, say, a lottery team or a perennial loser. It is therefore a little incumbent on a more winning team for a younger player to make an impact and a statement.

A person can wait and hope for a chance to play or move up the lineup. Or you can take it into your own hands, produce, and make yourself undeniable.

Adam Fox started playing here at age 21 and made himself undeniable.

The kid produced and the team has given Fox over 23 minutes a game from age 22 onward.

 

[Harbour Dog]

I hope Chytil blows up, stays healthy, and becomes a star player in the league. Kid deserves it, and we deserve a smack in the mouth for our horseshit idea of "development".

 

[jniklast]

I hope Chytil blows up, stays healthy, and becomes a star player in the league. Kid deserves it, and we deserve a smack in the mouth for our horseshit idea of "development".

I don't know, I find it kinda hard to blame the Rangers on this one. I think Chytil took a real step forward beginning of last season. But just then he also had his big concussion. Maybe Lav should've given him a bigger role when things did not click at all this season, but then again he kept missing games.

I think with Chytil it really is just about health right now.

 

[noncents]

I think he tried, but he also did play timid, perimeter, and almost no impact.

I realize fans are super harsh on their respective teams. But the reality is, we win more than most teams and have for the past 20 years. In that time, the NYR are 4th in regular season wins and also have the 4th most playoff wins.

No Cup in that time frame, granted, but no Cup is true for 19 other teams in that 20-year span, as well.

I think the Rangers win a tad more than people realize and obviously, it's just a bit harder for younger players to crack a more winning lineup than, say, a lottery team or a perennial loser. It is therefore a little incumbent on a more winning team for a younger player to make an impact and a statement.

A person can wait and hope for a chance to play or move up the lineup. Or you can take it into your own hands, produce, and make yourself undeniable.

Adam Fox started playing here at age 21 and made himself undeniable.

The kid produced and the team has given Fox over 23 minutes a game from age 22 onward.

"be adam fox or don't get a real shot" is exactly the point imo

 

[Harbour Dog]

I don't know, I find it kinda hard to blame the Rangers on this one. I think Chytil took a real step forward beginning of last season. But just then he also had his big concussion. Maybe Lav should've given him a bigger role when things did not click at all this season, but then again he kept missing games.

I think with Chytil it really is just about health right now.

I would definitely say it's less egregious than other examples, yeah. But every little bit helps!

Maybe if Chytil is P/GP from here onward, that will buy Perreault an extra month of playtime in the top6 if and when he isn't producing at the level we want. Or a longer stretch on PP1 than we ever gave the other kids.

Wouldn't be very palatable for management to watch another young guy come in and be placed on the same trajectory as guys we had to trade away who immediately gained value, just by slipping on a different jersey.

 

[TheDirtyH]

I think he tried, but he also did play timid, perimeter, and almost no impact.

I realize fans are super harsh on their respective teams. But the reality is, we win more than most teams and have for the past 20 years. In that time, the NYR are 4th in regular season wins and also have the 4th most playoff wins.

No Cup in that time frame, granted, but no Cup is true for 19 other teams in that 20-year span, as well.

I think the Rangers win a tad more than people realize and obviously, it's just a bit harder for younger players to crack a more winning lineup than, say, a lottery team or a perennial loser. It is therefore a little incumbent on a more winning team for a younger player to make an impact and a statement.

A person can wait and hope for a chance to play or move up the lineup. Or you can take it into your own hands, produce, and make yourself undeniable.

Adam Fox started playing here at age 21 and made himself undeniable.

The kid produced and the team has given Fox over 23 minutes a game from age 22 onward.

Adam Fox has four straight top 5 Norris finishes including a win, and he's never led our defense in 5v5 TOI.

The Rangers are clueless. They win in spite of themselves, everyone knows it; especially Igor's agent. That's why Drury got bent over on that contract, because the worst kept secret in the league is that the rangers have been a mediocre team, bouyed by hall of fame goaltending for 20 years.

Their track record at forward and defense is troubled at best, and what Kakko has done in Seattle should pretty much put the nail in the coffin, but people are so stubborn they need it to be something else. I get it: this team makes it hard to root for them, when you really pay attention to them like we all do.

 

[TheWrongWay]

Look, we all know that, now that Fil isn't a Ranger anymore, he's going to put together a 300 game iron man streak

I hope so. I love his attitude and enthusiasm. But he still makes some of the same fundamental errors that tend to induce his injuries. I'm sitting here now on my 4th serious concussion. I truly don't want to see someone so freakin young going through anything remotely like this.

 

[TheWrongWay]

I would definitely say it's less egregious than other examples, yeah. But every little bit helps!

Maybe if Chytil is P/GP from here onward, that will buy Perreault an extra month of playtime in the top6 if and when he isn't producing at the level we want. Or a longer stretch on PP1 than we ever gave the other kids.

Wouldn't be very palatable for management to watch another young guy come in and be placed on the same trajectory as guys we had to trade away who immediately gained value, just by slipping on a different jersey.

Sample size. JT Miller also put on a different jersey and is 2 ppg. Might not be sustainable lol

I'll see how this all looks a year from now after people have some legit time under their belts

 

[Overcast]

I think he tried, but he also did play timid, perimeter, and almost no impact.

I realize fans are super harsh on their respective teams. But the reality is, we win more than most teams and have for the past 20 years. In that time, the NYR are 4th in regular season wins and also have the 4th most playoff wins.

No Cup in that time frame, granted, but no Cup is true for 19 other teams in that 20-year span, as well.

I think the Rangers win a tad more than people realize and obviously, it's just a bit harder for younger players to crack a more winning lineup than, say, a lottery team or a perennial loser. It is therefore a little incumbent on a more winning team for a younger player to make an impact and a statement.

A person can wait and hope for a chance to play or move up the lineup. Or you can take it into your own hands, produce, and make yourself undeniable.

Adam Fox started playing here at age 21 and made himself undeniable.

The kid produced and the team has given Fox over 23 minutes a game from age 22 onward.

Reading whatever recent interview with Kakko was telling to me - There seems to be a mandate that younger players with NYR have to play literal mistake-free, genuis-level 500 IQ hockey every single shift in order to "earn" better/more chances, otherwise they get benched for the next 8 periods or get their ice time reduced to ~11m/game if they dare try something creative once and it doesn't work. Meanwhile the vets can keep doing the same shit that doesn't work and keep doing drop passes and blind behind-the-back passes that fall on an opponent's stick and it's just "They're trying to get themselves going." As has been mentioned, there's typically not a lot of on-ice accountability for the more tenured players.

I get that setting a high standard is good to push players, but it never felt like Laf/Kakko/etc were unequivocally given good faith opportunities without the looming threat of not playing if they didn't play immaculate hockey 100% of the time. And I think there's something to look at there when comparing 1) the way these guys play/played with NYR, and 2) the way they play with their new teams.

Kakko/Laf were given a lot of chances and never really popped with those chances, but I think it wraps back to that looming threat. Why are they going to stick their necks out to do something out of the box if they're being told "Don't do anything out of the box"? Quinn telling guys not to stickhandle now sounds like the tip of the iceberg.

If doing anything remotely creative fails and leads to them NOT playing..well these guys want to play so they're going to fall in line and be good little worker bees behind the true kings of the team in Kreider/Meeka/etc. And if the big guns aren't going? Well, they're just going to get more ice time at the expense of "mistaken-laden" Kakko/Laf. All if this shit feeds into itself IMO.

Now we've seen Laf in the top6 because he sucked it up, was decent enough (or in actuality, Laf was probably just more personable/"in" with the big boys club), and was a good little worker bee. And now he plays exactly like every other lifeless vet. How surprising that we don't see the pre-draft Laf now.

 

[nyr2k2]

I'm honestly curious, where does the mandate come from? Kakko played 2 years under Quinn, 2 years under Gallant, and 2 years under Laviolette. A couple years under the Gorton front office and then a few under the Drury front office. Did everyone have the same mandate? It seems odd to me that all of those guys would have the same approach to how they handled players. Especially given the head coaches don't share much in common and while Drury was a "protege" of Gorton, he doesn't exactly operate in the same manner IMO.

 

[LOFIN]

Quinn might've been a shitty coach who tried to get the kids to play mistake free hockey. With Gallant and Lavy, I think it's just the more traditional case of coach wanting to get wins, and they default to established players because that's what you do. The problem is that this team never did the rebuild part right. They got some young talent, but also wanted to compete straight away. Well, naturally development of the young players got sidetracked.

I think it's just a general mix of organizational failure in strategy, some poor coaching, and poor fit with our veteran players that has made the young forwards a disappointment. And sure, maybe just underwhelming talent as well. Some drafts are better than others.

 

[will1066]

"be adam fox or don't get a real shot" is exactly the point imo

Adam Fox has four straight top 5 Norris finishes including a win, and he's never led our defense in 5v5 TOI.

The Rangers are clueless. They win in spite of themselves, everyone knows it; especially Igor's agent. That's why Drury got bent over on that contract, because the worst kept secret in the league is that the rangers have been a mediocre team, bouyed by hall of fame goaltending for 20 years.

Their track record at forward and defense is troubled at best, and what Kakko has done in Seattle should pretty much put the nail in the coffin, but people are so stubborn they need it to be something else. I get it: this team makes it hard to root for them, when you really pay attention to them like we all do.

Reading whatever recent interview with Kakko was telling to me - There seems to be a mandate that younger players with NYR have to play literal mistake-free, genuis-level 500 IQ hockey every single shift in order to "earn" better/more chances, otherwise they get benched for the next 8 periods or get their ice time reduced to ~11m/game if they dare try something creative once and it doesn't work. Meanwhile the vets can keep doing the same shit that doesn't work and keep doing drop passes and blind behind-the-back passes that fall on an opponent's stick and it's just "They're trying to get themselves going." As has been mentioned, there's typically not a lot of on-ice accountability for the more tenured players.

I get that setting a high standard is good to push players, but it never felt like Laf/Kakko/etc were unequivocally given good faith opportunities without the looming threat of not playing if they didn't play immaculate hockey 100% of the time. And I think there's something to look at there when comparing 1) the way these guys play/played with NYR, and 2) the way they play with their new teams.

Kakko/Laf were given a lot of chances and never really popped with those chances, but I think it wraps back to that looming threat. Why are they going to stick their necks out to do something out of the box if they're being told "Don't do anything out of the box"? Quinn telling guys not to stickhandle now sounds like the tip of the iceberg.

If doing anything remotely creative fails and leads to them NOT playing..well these guys want to play so they're going to fall in line and be good little worker bees behind the true kings of the team in Kreider/Meeka/etc. And if the big guns aren't going? Well, they're just going to get more ice time at the expense of "mistaken-laden" Kakko/Laf. All if this shit feeds into itself IMO.

Now we've seen Laf in the top6 because he sucked it up, was decent enough (or in actuality, Laf was probably just more personable/"in" with the big boys club), and was a good little worker bee. And now he plays exactly like every other lifeless vet. How surprising that we don't see the pre-draft Laf now.

"Do you know how f***ing easy this was for me? This is a f***ing joke." --Fox

 

[tiggles]

I know it's not going to last, but Fil is 17 for 23 on faceoffs in his first two games with the canucks lol. He also played 20:45 last night, even more than his 20:03 in his debut, and this time the game didn't even go to overtime.

 

[will1066]

https://www.wkrn.com/news/local-news/nashville/former-nashville-predator-arrested-accused-dui/

 

[noncents]

I know it's not going to last, but Fil is 17 for 23 on faceoffs in his first two games with the canucks lol. He also played 20:45 last night, even more than his 20:03 in his debut, and this time the game didn't even go to overtime.

he's a 1st rounder with size, speed, skill, and pedigree in his prime. why wouldn't they want to see what they have in him?

they're going to give him every opportunity. I'm excited to see what he does with a real opportunity for the first time in his career.

just as a reminder - in 2022 playoffs, when the Kid line essentially carried the team at 5v5, Chytil got more than 14 minutes of ice time just 4 times in 20 games. one of those was G1 against Pitt in triple OT. Andrew Copp got less than 17 minutes 3 times in those same 20 games.


yes, i understand Copp played on the Panarin Strome line, and our lines were our lines - not to be changed. The point is that Chytils role as a depth option had been crystallized by years of deployment in that role. I haven't done the deep dive but i would bet that my memory is accurate of the Kid line seeing severely decreased shifts in the 3rd period of close games.

Over and over again, Chytil rode the bench while vets got the important minutes. I don't care what kind of attitude you look for in an employee... that shit matters. Show an employee he's not valuable over years of a career, he will understand he is not valued. It's such bullshit

 

[Overcast]

I'm honestly curious, where does the mandate come from? Kakko played 2 years under Quinn, 2 years under Gallant, and 2 years under Laviolette. A couple years under the Gorton front office and then a few under the Drury front office. Did everyone have the same mandate? It seems odd to me that all of those guys would have the same approach to how they handled players. Especially given the head coaches don't share much in common and while Drury was a "protege" of Gorton, he doesn't exactly operate in the same manner IMO.

Who knows, but I always subscribe to the line of thinking of "Crazier things have happened." I'm throwing shit at a wall based on nothing but vibes and optics.

Like I said I know all the young players here were given opportunities across their time here, and the consensus is that none of them grabbed their chances or made the coaches make any "hard" lineup changes. But we're seeing with Kakko that maybe a little bit of TLC could help some of these players? Maybe saying "Don't f*** up or you're not seeing the ice until 3 games from now" doesn't motivate guys like it used to back in the 70s and 80s. Maybe a "Hey that shit happens, you're going to lose the puck sometimes. Brush yourself off and get back out there" might go a long way with some players. In Kakko's interview he mentioned having the coaching staff's trust and their outlook of "Get back out there and play some hockey" was a huge boost and change of pace for him.

Or maybe it's just the delivery of the message that needs work. We've heard a number of times over just the last handful of years that communication has been a sore spot for some former players. I don't know if NYR are any better or worse than other teams in that regard.

 

[Boris Zubov]

I'm honestly curious, where does the mandate come from? Kakko played 2 years under Quinn, 2 years under Gallant, and 2 years under Laviolette. A couple years under the Gorton front office and then a few under the Drury front office. Did everyone have the same mandate? It seems odd to me that all of those guys would have the same approach to how they handled players. Especially given the head coaches don't share much in common and while Drury was a "protege" of Gorton, he doesn't exactly operate in the same manner IMO.

In my opinion, I feel like guys settle into the organizational way of doing things. They may initially have their own ideas about what they want to do, but there's an overwhelming ingrained culture that pervades MSG that has individuals not wanting to rock the boat. Everyone seems content collecting their fat salary & all the perks that come along with it & frankly, why wouldn't they... but it also leads to decades of indifference & status quo.

https://www.wkrn.com/news/local-news/nashville/former-nashville-predator-arrested-accused-dui/

Did a 3rd grader write this? The former player's name wasn't listed until paragraph 6 or so. Journalism 101.

 

[effen]

The issue with the high ranking kids is the best players on the team all want to read the play and react and try to slow things down for years. They need guys to push things around them and that's not Laf and Kakko for example.

Panarin, Fox, etc are all better at that than they are so they get first dibs with the puck. The kids were then relegated to simpler roles which they were unwilling or unable to do.

This is a construction issue, not a coaching issue. If anything coaches tried to give them easy roles to at least do well (focus on neutral zone play, don't get beat) but again, unwilling or unable to execute.

 

[noncents]

The issue with the high ranking kids is the best players on the team all want to read the play and react and try to slow things down for years. They need guys to push things around them and that's not Laf and Kakko for example.

Panarin, Fox, etc are all better at that than they are so they get first dibs with the puck. The kids were then relegated to simpler roles which they were unwilling or unable to do.

This is a construction issue, not a coaching issue. If anything coaches tried to give them easy roles to at least do well (focus on neutral zone play, don't get beat) but again, unwilling or unable to execute.

"chip and change, Kaapo. that's your game. Chip it and change."

 

[will1066]

In my opinion, I feel like guys settle into the organizational way of doing things. They may initially have their own ideas about what they want to do, but there's an overwhelming ingrained culture that pervades MSG that has individuals not wanting to rock the boat. Everyone seems content collecting their fat salary & all the perks that come along with it & frankly, why wouldn't they... but it also leads to decades of indifference & status quo.


Did a 3rd grader write this? The former player's name wasn't listed until paragraph 6 or so. Journalism 101.

But his mugshot comes after the first paragraph lol. Not that it's right.