Around the NHL: Part XIV - Hand Pass Edition

[bernmeister]

He wont be back.

He indeed may not be back.
In fact, at this moment, the odds are against it.

But that is NOT the point.
The point is we know what we had/would again have in him, he is a great fit as an elite 3C and a suitable 2C.

Other than Namest. who takes up space and is clearly not worth 4m per, we should not just move Andersson, Howden, and Strome for less than fair value just to make space. That said, IF we do get/can manufacture deals that allow us to repurpose those assets and be able to sign Hayes, we should do so.

Whether that is a
longer deal 5 yrs less per
or
2 yrs most $ which we do not have to protect him in the exp draft
or
3 yrs in between $ and we trade him late next [following] season as a rental w/1 yr
is a ? that needs to be resolved.

I never said it was a slam dunk Hayes would return. I said unequivocally a Chapman-Yankees parallel made huge sense, and should be explored if not facilitated if the specifics were right.

 

[bernmeister]

We did the same with Yandle. Most TDL acquisitions walk for free, at least the Jets got a 5th. I think they knew all along they weren’t re-signing Hayes

Yandle analogy apt.
Hayes rights deal not shocking
what is surprising is how underutilized he was w/Jets, after Wini paid.

Of course, Jets knew he was on the market to the highest bidder, so they not only acquired, but denied a prize from being acquired by competitors.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Yeah, they knew that going in. A 1st and Lemieux for Phillys 5th, those are things fans don’t forget.

Well, they paid a 1st+Lemieux for a post-season of Kevin Hayes + a 5th. Let's not act as if they just flipped Hayes the next day for a 5th rounder.

 

[bernmeister]

It was speculated by Ryan Whitney on spittin’ chicklets podcast chara broke his jaw. Only way he thought chara would be on the bench and not play. He thought you can’t sit on the bench if it’s concussion and if it was just stitches he would have gone back out

B fans have made a lot about how well he still skates, improving over past season, and to some extent there and then, he passed the eye test.

But I am not seeing how Chara holds off Father Time any longer.

Defenders MUST be able to skate, including backwards, with get up and go.

Before retiring, Chara will see duty at 4LW. I got roasted for suggesting this before, when I said we should take him on, NOT FOR ANY OTHER REASON, but SO WE COULD MOVE Girardi.

We'll see if I was ahead of he curve.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

He indeed may not be back.
In fact, at this moment, the odds are against it.

But that is NOT the point.
The point is we know what we had/would again have in him, he is a great fit as an elite 3C and a suitable 2C.

Other than Namest. who takes up space and is clearly not worth 4m per, we should not just move Andersson, Howden, and Strome for less than fair value just to make space. That said, IF we do get/can manufacture deals that allow us to repurpose those assets and be able to sign Hayes, we should do so.

Whether that is a
longer deal 5 yrs less per
or
2 yrs most $ which we do not have to protect him in the exp draft
or
3 yrs in between $ and we trade him late next [following] season as a rental w/1 yr
is a ? that needs to be resolved.

I never said it was a slam dunk Hayes would return. I said unequivocally a Chapman-Yankees parallel made huge sense, and should be explored if not facilitated if the specifics were right.

Nice, starting the back peddling early. No wonder you think that you are right more than you are wrong.

 

[Messrules11]

Well, they paid a 1st+Lemieux for a post-season of Kevin Hayes + a 5th. Let's not act as if they just flipped Hayes the next day for a 5th rounder.

Ok, but let’s not act like it’s good management either. Hayes was stapled to their 4th line in the playoffs and they lost in the first round. They couldn’t have done worse without him and now they have no 1st round pick. Jets fans aren’t happy and I don’t blame them, not that I really care but those gambles when they don’t work look awfully bad in hindsight.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Ok, but let’s not act like it’s good management either. Hayes was stapled to their 4th line in the playoffs and they lost in the first round. They couldn’t have done worse without him and now they have no 1st round pick. Jets fans aren’t happy and I don’t blame them, not that I really care but those gambles when they don’t work look awfully bad in hindsight.

They acquired a rental for a late 1st and a depth player. This isn't any different than Chicago trading for Vermette (just one example)

 

[Messrules11]

They acquired a rental for a late 1st and a depth player. This isn't any different than Chicago trading for Vermette (just one example)

Hawks won the cup that year, makes a huge difference

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Hawks won the cup that year, makes a huge difference

Not really. The outcome of the post season doesn't determine whether or not the trade was bad at the deadline

 

[Inferno]

Hasn’t Giroux been a winger the last two years?

Yeah but he was a center the previous like 20 years or whatever.

 

[Messrules11]

Not really. The outcome of the post season doesn't determine whether or not the trade was bad at the deadline

What? The goal is to win the Cup, that’s why the trades are made. Holy crap man.

 

[Edge]

Always a risk with the deadline moves.

The Rangers have done well for themselves the last couple of years, despite the opinions of some on here that they got fleeced.

None of their trade partners quite the desired impact they wanted from the trades, with Dallas possibly coming the closest. And even they had to deal with a freak injury to Zucc that limited his time, and arguably his full impact with them.

McD is signed in Tampa, will continue to be a second pair defenseman for them, but still hasn't helped them crack the code.

Nash is retired.

Grabner didn't do much for NJ.

Hayes was Hayes in Winnipeg.

I personally haven't regretted or lamented any of the trades. I wasn't over the moon about the Dallas trade, but we came within inches of a first this year, and if means we get their first next year, I'm good.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

What? The goal is to win the Cup, that’s why the trades are made. Holy crap man.

Just because Winnipeg didn't win a cup doesn't mean it was a bad trade

 

[Messrules11]

Just because Winnipeg didn't win a cup doesn't mean it was a bad trade

Oh? Go read the Jets board. Most of them want Cheveldae gone.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Oh? Go read the Jets board. Most of them want Cheveldae gone.

And most Ranger fans were furious we drafted Kravtsov last year. Not really going to base anything on emotional responses from fanbases. It wasn't a bad trade. It just didn't work out.

 

[Ratelleitlikeitis]

Clarke was a hell of a player. I always thought of Bill Barber as more of a rat.

Not to be forgotten, Kenny Linseman.

 

[Messrules11]

And most Ranger fans were furious we drafted Kravtsov last year. Not really going to base anything on emotional responses from fanbases. It wasn't a bad trade. It just didn't work out.

Well having a 5th round pick instead of a first while also losing Lemieux and getting knocked out in the first round proves it wasn’t a good trade for them.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Well having a 5th round pick instead of a first while also losing Lemieux and getting knocked out in the first round proves it wasn’t a good trade for them.

You still are missing the point of why they acquired him in the first place. They traded a 1st and Lemieux to add Kevin Hayes for a play off run. The outcome of that play off run doesn't change if it was a good trade or not.

 

[Leonardo87]

Always a risk with the deadline moves.

The Rangers have done well for themselves the last couple of years, despite the opinions of some on here that they got fleeced.

None of their trade partners quite the desired impact they wanted from the trades, with Dallas possibly coming the closest. And even they had to deal with a freak injury to Zucc that limited his time, and arguably his full impact with them.

McD is signed in Tampa, will continue to be a second pair defenseman for them, but still hasn't helped them crack the code.

Nash is retired.

Grabner didn't do much for NJ.

Hayes was Hayes in Winnipeg.

I personally haven't regretted or lamented any of the trades. I wasn't over the moon about the Dallas trade, but we came within inches of a first this year, and if means we get their first next year, I'm good.

I agree, felt we did very well. I guess only time will tell how we do moving forward. Also, Tampa fans will be calling out for a McD buyout in a few years or so, book it.

 

[Messrules11]

You still are missing the point of why they acquired him in the first place. They traded a 1st and Lemieux to add Kevin Hayes for a play off run. The outcome of that play off run doesn't change if it was a good trade or not.

And you keep contradicting yourself. If the goal was a playoff run and they lose in the first round it’s a fail. The year before they were in the conference finals so it’s a step back, not forward.

 

[Tawnos]

Yeah but he was a center the previous like 20 years or whatever.

I mean, you're right that the *can* always do that, but the goal is to put players at their best position to succeed when you're talking about bumping Patrick down a line. With that goal in mind, moving someone out of their best position to do so is really just treading water.

 

[Tawnos]

And you keep contradicting yourself. If the goal was a playoff run and they lose in the first round it’s a fail. The year before they were in the conference finals so it’s a step back, not forward.

Rentals are gambles. Period. It was a good gamble that didn't work out.

 

[Messrules11]

Rentals are gambles. Period. It was a good gamble that didn't work out.

Which is what I said an hour ago. Lol

 

[Tawnos]

Which is what I said an hour ago. Lol

And yet, two posts ago, you called it a fail.

 

[Messrules11]

And yet, two posts ago, you called it a fail.

It’s was a gamble and yes it failed. Pretty easy to see that isn’t it?