Around the NHL Part VIII

[Petey Pucks]

don't you know?....it's all about parity today brah.....parity....it's ****ing disgusting

 

[eco's bones]

Christian Folin--one of the most sought after if not the most sought after college free agent signs with the Wild. One of the teams he was rumored to was the Flyers--at least that didn't happen.

 

[Hockeyplayer99]

6'3 210lbs tough, mobile defenseman with big shot, no wonder why the Ranges weren't interested. He is to big for them. We need the 5'8 175lb players only

 

[Beer League Sniper]

6'3 210lbs tough, mobile defenseman with big shot, no wonder why the Ranges weren't interested. He is to big for them. We need the 5'8 175lb players only

Not sure about Folin's contract details, but I would assume that the Wild did the same thing for him that we did for Haggerty; that is structure the ELC to start this year, thus getting the player one year closer to RFA/arbitration/UFA eligibility. Problem is, you can only do that if you have available contract slots against the 50 limit. We had one slot, and we used it on Haggerty. I doubt we attract any more of the top echelon NCAA FAs for this exact reason. Some other team is going to have the contract to give them this year. I would, however, expect a couple more under-the-radar type signings from NYR.

 

[eco's bones]

Not sure about Folin's contract details, but I would assume that the Wild did the same thing for him that we did for Haggerty; that is structure the ELC to start this year, thus getting the player one year closer to RFA/arbitration/UFA eligibility. Problem is, you can only do that if you have available contract slots against the 50 limit. We had one slot, and we used it on Haggerty. I doubt we attract any more of the top echelon NCAA FAs for this exact reason. Some other team is going to have the contract to give them this year. I would, however, expect a couple more under-the-radar type signings from NYR.

It strikes me that just like with a draft the Rangers have a list of potential free agents they're interested in--and that Haggerty was pretty close to the top if not on the top of that list. It may have helped that Ryan had been to one of their development camps. The other factor is when individual players become available--pretty much when their playoff seasons end.

The Rangers used their 50th slot to get Haggerty. They next tried to sign Matt Carey--then Bryce Van Brabant--then they signed McCarthy. Van Brabant who is from Alberta apparently wanted the same deal that Haggerty got moving his RFA status one year closer-also the opportunity to finish the season with the Flames. There are teams have quite a number of openings--so the Rangers did pretty well to be able to grab another pretty highly regarded guy in McCarthy.

 

[jniklast]

i agree the nhl should do just do away with the loser point in general and go back to the old system. the old system is what made the nhl unique as it was one of the top four sports where games could end in a tie, though it may not be a top 4 sport now. look at the MLS. when the league 1st started should a game end in a draw they tried some stupid shootout where the player could dribble in one on one with the keeper ( not traditional pks kicked from the pk spot ). they tried this crap to make the MLS more appealing to American fans should games end in draws. they soon learned it didn't work and they did away with it and went to the traditional way

this crap of awarding teams 1 point for getting into overtime just rewards mediocrity. back when teams knew if the game had a chance of going to overtime there was a sense of more urgency to play for the win and end it in regulation because teams knew should they lose in overtime no points were rewarded so now with the loser point look at what's happening more and more in the NHL with teams like Det, NJ, Washington, Ottawa and a few other teams hovering just below them in the loser point area

While the 3 point system like they have in Europe would solve a lot of this I feel like it's just another column that makes thing more complicated. Also it was bad enough when the loser point column was introduced and the effect it had on regular season record keeping. Then the shootout column was added changing record keeping even more. I believe adding 3 points for a win column/ 2points for overtime or shootout win / 1 point for overtime or shootout loss.....would make the record keeping that much worse.

I've been a fan since the early 70's. Ties didn't bother me after a hard fought game. and when the Rangers lost in overtime and got 0 points I didn't think the system needed any changing

This stupid shoot out was added to gain more fans and it hasn't really worked the way they wanted it to. The NHL was the same for 80 plus years and didn't need any changing like loser points and shootouts. The NHL was most popular in the early to mid 90's before all this crap

While I agree with you about ties (soccer is the world's most popular sports and uses ties), I think "record keeping" is the worst argument out there. In the same vain there are many proponents of a simple W-L system because it's "simpler". For one I think there's nothing simpler than points (2 points difference is far easier than 1.5 GB or 0.065 W℅ difference), but more importantly the quality of the standings should be well above the simplicity. If a three point system makes the best standings, I couldn't care less if there is one more or less column.

 

[gary laser eyes]

Big night on the scoreboard:

NYR @ VAN
PHI @ STL
CLB vs COL
WSH vs DAL
TOR vs CGY
NJD @ BUF
CAR @ PIT

 

[Cake or Death]

i agree the nhl should do just do away with the loser point in general and go back to the old system. the old system is what made the nhl unique as it was one of the top four sports where games could end in a tie, though it may not be a top 4 sport now. look at the MLS. when the league 1st started should a game end in a draw they tried some stupid shootout where the player could dribble in one on one with the keeper ( not traditional pks kicked from the pk spot ). they tried this crap to make the MLS more appealing to American fans should games end in draws. they soon learned it didn't work and they did away with it and went to the traditional way

this crap of awarding teams 1 point for getting into overtime just rewards mediocrity. back when teams knew if the game had a chance of going to overtime there was a sense of more urgency to play for the win and end it in regulation because teams knew should they lose in overtime no points were rewarded so now with the loser point look at what's happening more and more in the NHL with teams like Det, NJ, Washington, Ottawa and a few other teams hovering just below them in the loser point area

While the 3 point system like they have in Europe would solve a lot of this I feel like it's just another column that makes thing more complicated. Also it was bad enough when the loser point column was introduced and the effect it had on regular season record keeping. Then the shootout column was added changing record keeping even more. I believe adding 3 points for a win column/ 2points for overtime or shootout win / 1 point for overtime or shootout loss.....would make the record keeping that much worse.

I've been a fan since the early 70's. Ties didn't bother me after a hard fought game. and when the Rangers lost in overtime and got 0 points I didn't think the system needed any changing

This stupid shoot out was added to gain more fans and it hasn't really worked the way they wanted it to. The NHL was the same for 80 plus years and didn't need any changing like loser points and shootouts. The NHL was most popular in the early to mid 90's before all this crap

While I agree with your points premise, I can't say I agree with the idea that the league was the same for 80 plus years before the shootout. Initially, minor penalties were 3 mins, penalized team couldn't change players on ice for duration of penalty. Forward passing only allowed in center ice neutral zone. A few seasons later, the unlimited OT was limited to 20 mins, 3 min minor became 2 min minor. To increase scoring, 12" wide goalie pad size restriction introduced. Then forward passing allowed in defensive zone. Goaltender pads reduced again to 10" to increase scoring. Games standardized to three 20 min periods with 10 min intermission. OT reduced to 10 min sudden death. Minor penalty introduced for deliberately shooting puck out of play. Minor penalty introduced to any player passing puck back into defensive zone. Then forward passing allowed in all three zones. Goaltenders forbidden to hold puck, puck must be cleared immediately. Scoring went up too much from prior changes to increase scoring lol, so off side rule created. If a goalie takes and serves a penalty, team can now substitute another goalie and pull a skater from ice to be a man down. Initially one ref, one linesman. Second ref added, so two refs one linesman. A few seasons later, changed to one ref, two linesman. Penalty shot introduced, shot taken from small circle 38' from goal. This later changed so players could skate in on major penalty shot, but not minor penalty shot. Can you imagine the fan rage with refs deciding between what was a major and minor penalty shot? yikes

That is all in the early first 30 years and not nearly all the changes. But immediately post WWII, playoff games can no longer end in a tie, sudden death OT introduced. Rules created for home team wearing white jerseys. Minor penalty ends if PP team scores goal. Players can no longer leave bench to enter altercation lol. Point being, this league has a history of major rule changes, and lots of them.

Idc if they employ/test rule changes that might make the game better. But I entirely agree with the rest of your post on point systems. This current point system is about keeping bad teams near a playoff spot longer for profitability, doing so at the expense of team's who actually deserve to secure a playoff spot based on real performance. That, to me, is just stupid as, you said, we fans are bludgeoned with a lesser quality product and we're watching mediocrity rewarded. Go to the 3-2-1 point system or go back to the 2 for a win, 0 for a loss, 1 for a tie point system. Either of those two options make a regulation/OT win worth something. I'm not a fan of shootouts either, but I am enjoying it more this season since NJ is like 0-10 lol

 

[Petey Pucks]

While I agree with your points premise, I can't say I agree with the idea that the league was the same for 80 plus years before the shootout. Initially, minor penalties were 3 mins, penalized team couldn't change players on ice for duration of penalty. Forward passing only allowed in center ice neutral zone. A few seasons later, the unlimited OT was limited to 20 mins, 3 min minor became 2 min minor. To increase scoring, 12" wide goalie pad size restriction introduced. Then forward passing allowed in defensive zone. Goaltender pads reduced again to 10" to increase scoring. Games standardized to three 20 min periods with 10 min intermission. OT reduced to 10 min sudden death. Minor penalty introduced for deliberately shooting puck out of play. Minor penalty introduced to any player passing puck back into defensive zone. Then forward passing allowed in all three zones. Goaltenders forbidden to hold puck, puck must be cleared immediately. Scoring went up too much from prior changes to increase scoring lol, so off side rule created. If a goalie takes and serves a penalty, team can now substitute another goalie and pull a skater from ice to be a man down. Initially one ref, one linesman. Second ref added, so two refs one linesman. A few seasons later, changed to one ref, two linesman. Penalty shot introduced, shot taken from small circle 38' from goal. This later changed so players could skate in on major penalty shot, but not minor penalty shot. Can you imagine the fan rage with refs deciding between what was a major and minor penalty shot? yikes

That is all in the early first 30 years and not nearly all the changes. But immediately post WWII, playoff games can no longer end in a tie, sudden death OT introduced. Rules created for home team wearing white jerseys. Minor penalty ends if PP team scores goal. Players can no longer leave bench to enter altercation lol. Point being, this league has a history of major rule changes, and lots of them.

i'm sorry I wasn't clear. yes i'm aware of the various rule changes added to and taken away from the game. when I said the same for 80 years I basically meant the W/L/T column...should have been clearer about that, but thank you. there were a few I had forgotten about until you mentioned them again. I know the minor penalty rule was changed as a result of the Canadiens being so good at the time and being able to score multiple goals on the same minor...incredible!!... which is the reason they changed the rule to when a goal is scored on a minor penalty the penalty is over

Idc if they employ/test rule changes that might make the game better. But I entirely agree with the rest of your post on point systems. This current point system is about keeping bad teams near a playoff spot longer for profitability, doing so at the expense of team's who actually deserve to secure a playoff spot based on real performance. That, to me, is just stupid as, you said, we fans are bludgeoned with a lesser quality product and we're watching mediocrity rewarded. Go to the 3-2-1 point system or go back to the 2 for a win, 0 for a loss, 1 for a tie point system. Either of those two options make a regulation/OT win worth something. I'm not a fan of shootouts either, but I am enjoying it more this season since NJ is like 0-10 lol

hysterical right?....10 loser points in 10 straight shootouts. can't even muster one win in the shootout and another 5 points added for losing in overtime..15pts!! 15 pts for mediocrity!.....take away those 15 points and look where they are. the game has to stop rewarding this crap...really

 

[Petey Pucks]

While I agree with you about ties (soccer is the world's most popular sports and uses ties), I think "record keeping" is the worst argument out there. In the same vain there are many proponents of a simple W-L system because it's "simpler". For one I think there's nothing simpler than points (2 points difference is far easier than 1.5 GB or 0.065 W℅ difference), but more importantly the quality of the standings should be well above the simplicity. If a three point system makes the best standings, I couldn't care less if there is one more or less column.

I also agree with you and wouldn't be ok with just a win / losses column and using percentages, but you have to know that when the OTL point was added newer team records weighed against older team records when the OTL point didn't exist now had to be taken into account. Now teams on average were having higher point seasons as a result. Same thing with the shootout. When the shootout was added and games no longer ended in ties you had to now take that into account against older team records where games ended in ties after OT. Now not only teams on average were ending up with more wins and more points on average as a result but it also affected individual records like goalie stats being one of them for instance. Goalies now too were ending up with more wins on average. It makes things a little more complicated when comparing team records from the past to the current. Another is games straight wins records or unbeaten/consecutive points records. Now you have to take into account the OTL and the shootout....teams of 15 years ago couldn't prolong their winning streak records with shootout wins nor could they prolong points streak records because if they lost in OT it was registered as a loss not a OTL with a point.

Also I'm aware of the various rule changes that affected the game throughout it's history. It's just that the traditional W/L/T was always pretty much the same when compared to everything else that has changed and that is why I have the most issue with it and what it affects.

 

[jniklast]

I also agree with you and wouldn't be ok with just win and losses and using percentages, but you have to know that when the OTL point was added newer team records now weighed against older team records when the OTL point didn't exist had to be taken into account. Now teams on average were having higher point seasons. Same with the shootout. when the shootout was added and games no longer ended in ties you had to now take that into account against older team records where games ended in ties. Now not only teams on average were ending up with more wins and more points as a result on average but it also affected individual records like goalie for instance. goalies now too were ending up with more wins on average. it makes things a little more complicated when comparing team records from the past to the current. another is games straight wins or unbeaten/consecutive points records....now you have to take into account the OTL and the shootout....teams of 15 years ago couldn't prolong their winning streak records with shootout wins nor could they prolong points streak records because if they lost in OT it was a loss not a OTL with a point

You are completely right, you can't really compare records across history because of overtime, OTL points and the shootout. But that has nothing to do with a three point system. A three point system doesn't make comparisons impossible like the shootout or the other things. If you want to compare records you can easily convert records to and from the 3-point system, so that is no argument against it.

 

[Petey Pucks]

You are completely right, you can't really compare records across history because of overtime, OTL points and the shootout. But that has nothing to do with a three point system. A three point system doesn't make comparisons impossible like the shootout or the other things. If you want to compare records you can easily convert records to and from the 3-point system, so that is no argument against it.

I understand switching from the current system to the 3 point ROW win system wouldn't change much in the current NHL because you still have your ROW wins 3pts ( 1 extra pt now), losses 0pts , OT/SO win 2 pts and OT/SO loss 1 pt.....but I don't know...call me a traditional but going from around 100 pt seasons for a good season to almost 200pts strikes me as weird..

Boston would have 160 pts right now with still 7 games to play

it was weird enough when they 1st added the OTL point and how it changed the regular season.....then got a whole lot weirder when they added the SO on top of that.

all of a sudden 80 pts minimum to make the playoffs turned into 94pts

 

[jniklast]

I understand switching from the current system to the 3 point ROW win system wouldn't change much in the current NHL because you still have your ROW wins 3pts ( 1 extra pt now), losses 0pts , OT/SO win 2 pts and OT/SO loss 1 pt.....but I don't know...call me a traditional but going from around 100 pt seasons for a good season to almost 200pts strikes me as weird..

Boston would have 160 pts right now with still 7 games to play

it was weird enough when they 1st added the OTL point and how it changed the regular season.....then got a whole lot weirder when they added the SO on top of that.

all of a sudden 80 pts minimum to make the playoffs turned into 94pts

So you'd rather have a bad point system, simply because a 180 point season seems weird to you? Like you said, there are already many changes that changed the average point totals and unlike those changes, you can easily convert 3-point standings if you want to compare them.

Such minor aesthetics are a pretty weak argument for me. I'd put the quality of the points system well above. And one will get used to the new point totals quick enough.

 

[Petey Pucks]

So you'd rather have a bad point system, simply because a 180 point season seems weird to you? Like you said, there are already many changes that changed the average point totals and unlike those changes, you can easily convert 3-point standings if you want to compare them.

Such minor aesthetics are a pretty weak argument for me. I'd put the quality of the points system well above. And one will get used to the new point totals quick enough.

in the end yes you are right...but IMO and like Cake or Death I would rather they scrap the whole thing and go back to how it was...it didn't need to be changed

 

[Abooch68]

i'm sorry I wasn't clear. yes i'm aware of the various rule changes added to and taken away from the game. when I said the same for 80 years I basically meant the W/L/T column...should have been clearer about that, but thank you. there were a few I had forgotten about until you mentioned them again. I know the minor penalty rule was changed as a result of the Canadiens being so good at the time and being able to score multiple goals on the same minor...incredible!!... which is the reason they changed the rule to when a goal is scored on a minor penalty the penalty is over



hysterical right?....10 loser points in 10 straight shootouts. can't even muster one win in the shootout and another 5 points added for losing in overtime..15pts!! 15 pts for mediocrity!.....take away those 15 points and look where they are. the game has to stop rewarding this crap...really

It can also be looked at the other way. What if you add those 15 points? What if you even add half of them? Look where they are then.

 

[Petey Pucks]

It can also be looked at the other way. What if you add those 15 points? What if you even add half of them? Look where they are then.

i'm sorry i'm not following what you're saying? what is your argument? if you add half those points the devils aren't even in the playoff picture anymore with 72 pts ( they are barely in it now)...they would be right above the islanders who have 68pts?

 

[PromNite]

For what it's worth, I feel NBC should allow commentators of both teams to call games on NBC, or at least join Doc Emrick. Especially during play off games, listening to the guys you hear every game all season, is the least they can do. It's easy to broadcast with 2 or 3 audio channels. Give fans the option

It'll never happen. That's another paycheck they have to cut for every game.

 

[RangerBoy]

The Tampa Bay Lightning made it clear to Ryan Callahan’s camp that they want the player past this season.

The pending UFA's agent, the veteran Steve Bartlett, told ESPN.com Tuesday that he chatted with Steve Yzerman in Buffalo over the past weekend, at which point the Bolts GM made it clear they'd like to talk extension after the season.

Yzerman, also reached Tuesday, said for now the focus is on hockey, on making the playoffs and on doing well in the playoffs. The GM will focus on Callahan’s future after the year.

"He’s just going to play hockey and we’ll talk when the season’s over," Yzerman told ESPN.com.

But it’s clear the Bolts hope the former Rangers captain is more than just a rental.

"Yeah, we’d love to sign him," said Yzerman. "He’s a good fit, a good person, a good player, has style of play that really complements our group well; he’s fit in really well. So we hope to sign him. But we won’t talk until after the year."

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/...lahan-staying-in-tampa-canucks-making-changes

I hope Tampa signs Callahan and the Rangers get TB's second in 2015. TB has a bad season. That pick and the Rangers late #1 in 2015 won't have much separation.

LeBrun also has our friend John Tortorella getting fired at the end of the season.

 

[RangerBoy]

Does anyone want the last few playoff spots in the east? The Leafs and Caps are giving the last spot to Columbus.

How much money did Brian Burke put on the board tonight for whoever scores the winning goal tonight?

 

[17futurecap]

Does anyone want the last few playoff spots in the east? The Leafs and Caps are giving the last spot to Columbus.

How much money did Brian Burke put on the board tonight for whoever scores the winning goal tonight?

As long as the Rangers can get a top 3, got no problem seeing the Jackets hopefully play Boston in the first round. The Caps are pure garbage, 25 wins give me a break.

 

[Cake or Death]

in the end yes you are right...but IMO and like Cake or Death I would rather they scrap the whole thing and go back to how it was...it didn't need to be changed

I think that's kinda the point. For me personally, I'm fine with a 10 min overtime and get rid of these awful shootouts.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

The Blues look like ****.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

These are big bad Blues that we can't possibly compete against? They look like they just rolled out of bed to play this game.

 

[tbonenc*]

The Blues look like ****.

Just watched the almighty Pietrangelo get roasted twice on one shift.
The Blues are making the Flyers look better than what they are.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Just watched the almighty Pietrangelo get roasted twice on one shift.
The Blues are making the Flyers look better than what they are.

But he was picked like 4th and has a nice shot so he's better than McDonagh.