I believe that John Tortorella is a much better coach too with international experience - I know some Rangers fans dont like him, but that was a nightmare matchup for Tampa. You can`t take vacation like Tampa did sometimes in regular season, and then expect a completely different approach come playoffs time. I knew CBJ was hungry when they somehow manage to get into playoffs, and this year is the last one for CBJ to win a cup for a long while, because it`ll be hard to keep this team together for another season based on cap reasons.
Around The NHL: Part VIII - Tampa/NYR = 0 Playoff Wins
- Thread starter Fugazy
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Machinehead
Fox Mafia Consigliere
A harder working team beats a more talented but soft team. I'm cool with that. That's always been a thing.
What I'm saying is that
1) The harder working team shouldn't be able to absolutely humiliate the more talented team simply because they worked harder.
2) A soft team shouldn't win 62 games to begin with. That's a soft league.
And this all goes back to the point that talent is too watered down and teams are a little bit too close.
What I'm saying is that
1) The harder working team shouldn't be able to absolutely humiliate the more talented team simply because they worked harder.
2) A soft team shouldn't win 62 games to begin with. That's a soft league.
And this all goes back to the point that talent is too watered down and teams are a little bit too close.
The game 1 was close though 4-3 loss for Tampa and after that game they never figure CBJ out, and John T. created a neutral zone trap and Tampa struggled with injuries as well and stupid player decisions with a late boarding call and 1 match penalty bann. Stamkos had less points than injured Zuccarello after 4 games so you can the see the lesser impact player by player.
My point is that John T. was tactical superior in that matchup, and CBJ had a very strong playoffs push after TDL @Machinehead - so Tampa was not much greater player for player compare to CBJ with Panarin & Duchene. I agree regular season is soft, but Tampa in that matchup did not had a much better team. I also felt they struggle against a reubild Rangers and won in OT in March 4-3, but CBJ struggled too vs a hard working Rangers even though they won. So hard work in NHL will get you far for sure, but my point is that Tampa was not that much skilled related to talent compare to CBJ, and they had injuries on Hedman a key D player. And Stamkos don`t get any younger - it will be interesting if their new GM will do anything in this summer window.
My point is that John T. was tactical superior in that matchup, and CBJ had a very strong playoffs push after TDL @Machinehead - so Tampa was not much greater player for player compare to CBJ with Panarin & Duchene. I agree regular season is soft, but Tampa in that matchup did not had a much better team. I also felt they struggle against a reubild Rangers and won in OT in March 4-3, but CBJ struggled too vs a hard working Rangers even though they won. So hard work in NHL will get you far for sure, but my point is that Tampa was not that much skilled related to talent compare to CBJ, and they had injuries on Hedman a key D player. And Stamkos don`t get any younger - it will be interesting if their new GM will do anything in this summer window.
Machinehead
Fox Mafia Consigliere
Jaromir Jagr
Registered User
I agree with all your assessments, but I guess 'enjoyability' depends on what kind of action you prefer. Some people love seeing potential dynasties and continuity whereas others prefer the excitement of literally never knowing what can happen.
I would say I'm more towards the latter, but the NHL seems to be getting to a breaking point, even for me. Obviously the league itself is driven by profitability, so it won't cease to change much but the combination of cap implications with a constant expansion that has caused a watering down of NHL talent has resulted in a league that appears to be a crapshoot.
In the past, many of the teams shouldn't have even been in the playoffs, let alone sweeping 'good' teams.
On the bright side, it's not hard to see a path to which the Rangers are competitive sooner rather than later.
Jaromir Jagr
Registered User
Just to add, I think Columbus is one of the most talented teams in the league, especially when it comes to being built for the playoffs. However, they severely underperformed during the regular season and it's quite possible Tampa greatly overperformed (or was just a victim of their players being beat up by the time the playoffs came around).
I understand that you expect a lot more after 62 wins in regular season than a 4-0 swept serie so the ranking does not matter much come playoffs time and Flams is out too after 4-1 loss, but someone need to take responsibility here either coaching staff or some players for Tampa. 
Machinehead
Fox Mafia Consigliere
It's definitely good the Rangers and their plan.
We talk about how the rosters of Calgary and Colorado are closer than the records indicate.
In that scenario, a guy like MacKinnon gets hot and the series is over. That's the type of talent we're gunning for high in the draft.
There's a premium in this watered down NHL on anyone that can make a difference.
Maybe all these tiny skill guys putting up monster points isn’t so much the way to go come playoff time they’ve all dried up other than zucc. But the points gaudreaus etc got steam rolled by much heavier teams
Happened to Tampa last year as well
Happened to Tampa last year as well
Yes true I hope Kakko keep it up - we need elite young talents. Yes they play different in playoffs time - more physical, and CBJ is better built for playoffs so I agree @Kovalev27.
Ghost of jas
Unsatisfied
Jaromir Jagr
Registered User
It's funny, because what you describe is a sort of transition to a superstar league. Something like the NFL or NBA where one player can get hot and determine a series or even multiple series' despite the other team being built better from top to bottom.
But whereas in the NFL or NBA this leads to continuity and dynasties, in the NHL it's leading to severe parity.
Kind of a strange phenomenon.
darko
Registered User
- Feb 16, 2009
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Not really. Tampa still has them beat by a lot. Calgary was a run of the mill top seed and they did at least win 1 game.
So hand count
How many sat here for the last 6 weeks saying Dallas/Colorado/Columbus had no chance and thought Columbus should have sold and Colorado should have tanked?
How many sat here for the last 6 weeks saying Dallas/Colorado/Columbus had no chance and thought Columbus should have sold and Colorado should have tanked?
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
There’s a premium on players who can make a difference, but it’s not because the league is watered down... it’s because of the opposite. The bottom end of the talent pool is much more talented than it’s ever been in the history of the league. You bring that bottom up and those difference makers become even more important than they were when the gap between top and bottom was wider.
Tampa and Calgary are two entirely different stories. That both happened in the same year is just random coincidence and I don’t think it has wider implications for the league.
The Flames losing is something we’ve seen a million times in the NHL. A team that’s really good for the first time loses bad in the first round. That happened to the Crosby/Malkin Penguins in 06-07. Even though they were facing an opponent they were tied with in the RS standings, the way they lost that series was embarrassing. It even happened to the 81-82 Oilers. Teams have to learn how to play differently in the playoffs to win. That’s always been the case.
Tampa... that was really a perfect storm. Their best player, who I consider to be Hedman, was injured... not even really at 50% in games 1 and 2, didn’t play games 3 and 4. They did coast in, we agree on that fully, and it’s really hard to flip the switch after you’ve been doing it for months. But sometimes you don’t need to worry about it if you face a much weaker opponent in the first round. You can switch gear slowly while beating your opponent with your skill level. The problem is that Columbus wasn’t that. They underachieved to begin with for most of the season. Then, after the deadline it took them a while to come together after the roster changes, but unlike many other teams that have done something like that at the deadline, they DID come together. When you compare the two rosters for the playoffs on paper, there really isn’t much of a gap between them. Now compare Tampa and Carolina. On paper, there’s a pretty big gap there, at least by modern standards. So Tampa gets a bad draw because if Columbus had that roster all year and had come together this way in preseason or October, they would’ve at least challenged Washington for the division.
On top of those three factors, you also had Tortorella get his team to execute a precise game plan, which is no small feat. Plus you had Bobrovsky get hot and Vasilevskiy not. Like I said, perfect storm.
SA16
Sixstring
1. We shouldn’t try to win and compete for years until we can finally have a potentially stacked roster.
2. The three series that have ended so far were all won by the underdog.
Hmm. Makes you think that just maybe there’s a ton of variance in a best of seven format and the worse team still wins often.
2. The three series that have ended so far were all won by the underdog.
Hmm. Makes you think that just maybe there’s a ton of variance in a best of seven format and the worse team still wins often.
SA16
Sixstring
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
SA16
Sixstring
Ok? And the Penguins were -150 or so favorites on every single sportsbook out there despite those facts.
Jaromir Jagr
Registered User
Really interesting and unique take. I enjoyed reading it.
And just to play devil's advocate a little with one of your earlier takes, the ratings have been fantastic for the Patriots and GSW dynasties, but what if you end up having that with a team not in a huge market.
Like, what if the Panthers or Jacksonville became a dynasty. I can't imagine the ratings would be anything near those of a team from Boston or California.
Jaromir Jagr
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