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Chainshot said:
Not sure how this would be different than an auto accident resulting in someone's death.
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Maybe @Husko can help with the legal definitions -- but in a car accident scenario, doesn't there need to be some element of carelessness involved in order for manslaughter to be applied? Like excessive speeding, or an illegal lane change or something?

But if it was a "true" accident, where there is quite literally zero fault on either side.....isn't manslaughter usually not applied?


In this case, I see it as a "true" accident with no one at fault. Hell, if someone is at fault it's the guy that tripped Petgrave and sent him flying.
 
Yeah, I would think the guy will be absolved since it appears to be an accident during the course of play.
 
Zman5778 said:
Maybe @Husko can help with the legal definitions -- but in a car accident scenario, doesn't there need to be some element of carelessness involved in order for manslaughter to be applied? Like excessive speeding, or an illegal lane change or something?

But if it was a "true" accident, where there is quite literally zero fault on either side.....isn't manslaughter usually not applied?


In this case, I see it as a "true" accident with no one at fault. Hell, if someone is at fault it's the guy that tripped Petgrave and sent him flying.
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There is no trip...and he didn't go flying.

 
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Chainshot said:
Yeah, I would think the guy will be absolved since it appears to be an accident during the course of play.
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It won't be easy to prove it wasn't an "accident" .... but if they find a lot more videos of the guy throwing out his leg when he misses a hit he is going to be in trouble
 
Beerz said:
There is no trip...and he didn't go flying.
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Semantics. There is contact by another guy into Petgrave.....this contact causes Petgrave to lose his balance.....which causes his skate to hit Johnson's neck.

In my opinion, with my understanding of the US manslaughter laws, I don't see anything chargeable here. I don't see any grossly negligent or grossly careless act on Petgrave's part.
 
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Zman5778 said:
Semantics. There is contact by another guy into Petgrave.....this contact causes Petgrave to lose his balance.....which causes his skate to hit Johnson's neck.

In my opinion, with my understanding of the US manslaughter laws, I don't see anything chargeable here. I don't see any grossly negligent or grossly careless act on Petgrave's part.
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There is definitely enough to be charged ... it will be hard to comvict.
 
Zman5778 said:
Semantics. There is contact by another guy into Petgrave.....this contact causes Petgrave to lose his balance.....which causes his skate to hit Johnson's neck.

In my opinion, with my understanding of the US manslaughter laws, I don't see anything chargeable here. I don't see any grossly negligent or grossly careless act on Petgrave's part.
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Only thing I see as accidental is hitting him in the neck and killing him. Watching the video looks like a deliberate kick to impede Johnson. And he has a similar play in past... if they find more. He's done.
 
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Zman5778 said:
Manslaughter laws have to be different in the UK than they are in the states. Have to be.

@BritSabre -- any insight here?
@Rowley Birkin can chime in too!
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I'm definitely not an expert or difference between law in different countries.

One thing to note that the vast majority of Brits have never seen a hockey game or put on a pair of skates. So it's not impossible no one investigating knows anything about hockey, Sheffield and Nottingham are two biggest clubs in England so if anywhere was going to have someone that knows anything it's these places. Probably a lot will rest on the experts and consultants they speak to. As a non skater/player it looks very unnatural, but there's been a fair amount of time passed so you would think some investigations have been done.

When arrested and bailed you have to hand over your passport, I wonder if nationality has contributed towards the decision and they've made the arrest to keep him in the country and avoid the mess of extradition if it comes to it.

I can't think of anything comparable.

Chainshot said:
Not sure how this would be different than an auto accident resulting in someone's death.
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Death by dangerous driving is a dedicated charge for this offence, but I get what you mean
 
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Beerz said:
There is definitely enough to be charged ... it will be hard to convict.
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Agreed. Unless there is evidence that casts any doubt on this being an accident for whatever reason I think it's going to be very unlikely. I think occasionally a court hears a case and jury debates and votes on murder and if found not guilty they also vote on manslaughter as a lesser charge. Death by dangerous driving charge was invented I believe to make it easier to convict negligence compared to manslaughter.
 
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Chainshot said:
Not sure how this would be different than an auto accident resulting in someone's death.
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Criminal homicide requires an intent, mens rea, to comit an act that results in death. Manslaughter removes intent, but imposes a gross negligence standard, i.e. a wanton disregard of the consequences of deviation from the standard of care normally appropriate under the circumstances. Not all car accidents resulting in death rise to the level of manslaughter. Intentionally running someone down would include the mens rea and rise to the level of homicide.

Not weighing in on the UK authorities, or UK law, just providing a distinction as it applies in the US.
 
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Tatanka said:
Criminal homicide requires an intent, mens rea, to comit an act that results in death. Manslaughter removes intent, but imposes a gross negligence standard, i.e. a wanton disregard of the consequences of deviation from the standard of care normally appropriate under the circumstances. Not all car accidents resulting in death rise to the level of manslaughter. Intentionally running someone down would include the mens rea and rise to the level of homicide.

Not weighing in on the UK authorities, or UK law, just providing a distinction as it applies in the US.
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Thanks.
 
If Dahlin boards someone in a reckless manner and against the rules, and they get paralyzed, should he be charged.

If Tage recklessly high sticks someone, and they are blinded, should he be charged.

If Drai’s dirty ass cross check resulted in an injury, should he be charged.

In improper helmet to helmet hit in football?


Of course not. A very reckless kick shouldn’t result in a crime because of this freak result. It crosses a line we don’t cross, plays on the field (no matter how reckless or improper) aren’t crimes and everyone on the ice or field assumes that risk
 
Dirty Dog said:
If Dahlin boards someone in a reckless manner and against the rules, and they get paralyzed, should he be charged.

If Tage recklessly high sticks someone, and they are blinded, should he be charged.

If Drai’s dirty ass cross check resulted in an injury, should he be charged.

In improper helmet to helmet hit in football?


Of course not. A very reckless kick shouldn’t result in a crime because of this freak result. It crosses a line we don’t cross, plays on the field (no matter how reckless or improper) aren’t crimes and everyone on the ice or field assumes that risk
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Would need to see the examples to give you an answer.

It's hard to say without seeing them.

Tage stick hitting a guy in the eye after a stick lift attempt or something? No

Tage using his stick as a weapon and hitting a guy in the eye? Yes
 
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