OT: Around the NHL - Cat Scratch Fever

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CascadiaPenguin

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Bob probably would’ve have won if Florida swept or won in 5
Exactly, no question about it, and deservedly so. I think McDavid was probably the right choice, and the best part, other than him saying f*** walking back out there to grab his hardware, is he couldn't care less. This whole celebratory award is designed to rile fans up.

Not sure this was mentioned, was overshadowed by the Cup:



The Phoenix experiment is officially dead.

Biggest POS owner ever, which is no small statement. I feel for AZ, he was the worst.
 
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CascadiaPenguin

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I've spent a lot of time in Arizona for work and would disagree.
I agree. Behaving like a magat, not paying bills, treating employees like shit, not showing up for the final game last year, etc., is not a guy who's going to get the benefit of the doubt in terms of public generosity, especially in AZ, a frugal demographic, where they enjoy property districts that pride themselves on not subsidizing public schools.
 

Tom Hanks

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Nov 10, 2017
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Exactly, no question about it, and deservedly so. I think McDavid was probably the right choice, and the best part, other than him saying f*** walking back out there to grab his hardware, is he couldn't care less. This whole celebratory award is designed to rile fans up.

Different sports have different things.

For example, in Aussie Rules the losing team stays on the ground while the winning team gets their premiership medals presented to them one by one. Then the cup is presented to the captain & coach then all the players run up take photos then they run a lap of the oval for the crowd.

The opposing captain gets on the podium before all that to do a quick speech as well. Also if you get the Norm Smith medal (best on ground) from the losing team you still go up and collect it.
 

Jaded-Fan

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Mar 18, 2004
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Even this guy says "whoooa. You have gone too far."

1143597723.jpg.0.jpg
 
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CascadiaPenguin

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Dude bailed on Arizona like he's a Yankees fan bitter about 2001.
The prick sold a franchise, for which he paid $425MM, for $1 Billion after mismanaging it beyond belief. He's not bitter. He's just a petulant child used to "yes men" and getting his own way. The league and the exclusivity are the reasons the franchise had value, certainly not his greedy incompetence.
 

Shaftception

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Apr 6, 2011
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Apologies for the long post I was bored at the end of the work day here. I don't want to chime in too much considering the discussion has died down compared to earlier in the day, and this is even coming from someone who enjoys watching Mcdavid play, but I feel not enough people bring up how much scoring has increased since 2017 nowadays when people compare Mcdavid and the rest of today's stars to that of Sid's era. It was hard enough when people did it when compared to the absurd outlier of the 80s Oilers. People will remember from time to time, but many are caught up in the gaudy numbers Mcdavid, Drai, Kucherov, Mack, etc. are putting up recently to often acknowledge it.

I don't believe it to be a coincidence that around the same time as the last round of goalie equipment reductions the league mandated over the mid 2010's, league scoring began to increase, especially when compared to the then recent Art Ross winning season of Jamie Benn who totaled a whopping 87 points. Defenses didn't overnight just forget how to play.

I posted the following a bit under a year ago during the first few weeks of the season when I last bothered to look into it but I wager this past season was likely just as high.

The league average goals per game in 16-17 was 2.77, where as last year was 3.18.

It's a pet peeve of mine when the effects of the last round of goalie equipment reductions and Vegas/Seattle expansions before 17-18/21-22 had on league scoring go unacknowledged when comparing stats from before and after said time periods.

10-1111-1212-1313-1414-1515-1616-17
2.792.732.722.742.732.712.77

17-1818-1919-2020-2121-2222-2323-24
2.973.013.022.943.143.183.05

(Side note but I also believe this contributed to some of Matt Murray's struggles post cup runs. Check out the shoulder risers he was wearing during the first cup run in 2016, especially if you can find a picture where he and Fleury are standing next to each other, he legit had 3 inches of more padding above his shoulders compared to Fleury, it was comical, and I remember specifically pointing that out back during that run on here in some game thread.)

Anyway back to the scoring increase, what's interesting to me about the league wide scoring increase since 2017 is that while it's been a noticeable increase compared to the relatively stable league scoring through most of the 2010's, where recent seasons have rivaled the height of the mid 90s just prior to the dead puck era, the increase is most pronounced in the high end of league scoring. Meaning the best players in the league saw the biggest jump in production, at least last time I looked into this it was true, I didn't pay much attention to this past season.

This would make sense if the goalie gear restrictions had a non-insignificant effect on league scoring, as the reduction in equipment would while benefiting any shooter, most benefit the most skilled and accurate scorers, who the small reduction in size of padding goalies use for blocking the net would be most able to exploit the extra net to shoot at. The talent dilution league wide thanks to the two expansions during this time period is also obviously a factor that must be taken into consideration for however much of the increase in league scoring you want to give them credit for.

I would doubt that the increase in scoring is to any great degree in difference in style of play league wide compared to pre-2018, as while there was a noted increase in league speed after ironically enough the 2016 Pens helped write the blueprint for it, defenses have similarly improved in the skating department to counteract faster offenses. You no longer have many lumbering big men who's job is solely to obstruct like there used to be.

Long story short when comparing the stars of today to even the stars who's primes weren't even a decade ago, one needs to consider more than just straight stats comparisons. A lot changed in a relatively short amount of time.

Funny enough while I feel like a portion of the Pens fandom to some degree tries to diminish the accomplishments of the Mcdavids, Drai's, Kucherov, etc. nowadays because they see them as threats to the legacies of Sid and Geno, Sid's legacy specifically did ironically benefit from the increase in league scoring that he unfortunately aged out of his prime during, by aiding in him maintaining his seasons above a point per game streak. I doubt he'd have managed to keep it up this long had league scoring rates stayed below the 2.80 mark they were at for most of his career as he continued to age into his late 30's today. So that in one way is a fortuitous bounce his way he can be thankful for, at least when compared to the numerous unfortunate injuries that robbed him of accumulating more hardware earlier in his career, much like Mario before him.

Some of this might be wrong but I'm tired now so don't care.
 

Turin

Erik Karlsson is good
Feb 27, 2018
23,296
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Apologies for the long post I was bored at the end of the work day here. I don't want to chime in too much considering the discussion has died down compared to earlier in the day, and this is even coming from someone who enjoys watching Mcdavid play, but I feel not enough people bring up how much scoring has increased since 2017 nowadays when people compare Mcdavid and the rest of today's stars to that of Sid's era. It was hard enough when people did it when compared to the absurd outlier of the 80s Oilers. People will remember from time to time, but many are caught up in the gaudy numbers Mcdavid, Drai, Kucherov, Mack, etc. are putting up recently to often acknowledge it.

I don't believe it to be a coincidence that around the same time as the last round of goalie equipment reductions the league mandated over the mid 2010's, league scoring began to increase, especially when compared to the then recent Art Ross winning season of Jamie Benn who totaled a whopping 87 points. Defenses didn't overnight just forget how to play.

I posted the following a bit under a year ago during the first few weeks of the season when I last bothered to look into it but I wager this past season was likely just as high.



(Side note but I also believe this contributed to some of Matt Murray's struggles post cup runs. Check out the shoulder risers he was wearing during the first cup run in 2016, especially if you can find a picture where he and Fleury are standing next to each other, he legit had 3 inches of more padding above his shoulders compared to Fleury, it was comical, and I remember specifically pointing that out back during that run on here in some game thread.)

Anyway back to the scoring increase, what's interesting to me about the league wide scoring increase since 2017 is that while it's been a noticeable increase compared to the relatively stable league scoring through most of the 2010's, where recent seasons have rivaled the height of the mid 90s just prior to the dead puck era, the increase is most pronounced in the high end of league scoring. Meaning the best players in the league saw the biggest jump in production, at least last time I looked into this it was true, I didn't pay much attention to this past season.

This would make sense if the goalie gear restrictions had a non-insignificant effect on league scoring, as the reduction in equipment would while benefiting any shooter, most benefit the most skilled and accurate scorers, who the small reduction in size of padding goalies use for blocking the net would be most able to exploit the extra net to shoot at. The talent dilution league wide thanks to the two expansions during this time period is also obviously a factor that must be taken into consideration for however much of the increase in league scoring you want to give them credit for.

I would doubt that the increase in scoring is to any great degree in difference in style of play league wide compared to pre-2018, as while there was a noted increase in league speed after ironically enough the 2016 Pens helped write the blueprint for it, defenses have similarly improved in the skating department to counteract faster offenses. You no longer have many lumbering big men who's job is solely to obstruct like there used to be.

Long story short when comparing the stars of today to even the stars who's primes weren't even a decade ago, one needs to consider more than just straight stats comparisons. A lot changed in a relatively short amount of time.

Funny enough while I feel like a portion of the Pens fandom to some degree tries to diminish the accomplishments of the Mcdavids, Drai's, Kucherov, etc. nowadays because they see them as threats to the legacies of Sid and Geno, Sid's legacy specifically did ironically benefit from the increase in league scoring that he unfortunately aged out of his prime during, by aiding in him maintaining his seasons above a point per game streak. I doubt he'd have managed to keep it up this long had league scoring rates stayed below the 2.80 mark they were at for most of his career as he continued to age into his late 30's today. So that in one way is a fortuitous bounce his way he can be thankful for, at least when compared to the numerous unfortunate injuries that robbed him of accumulating more hardware earlier in his career, much like Mario before him.

Some of this might be wrong but I'm tired now so don't care.
I agree with everything here, including that the scoring increase sort of inflated the longevity of Sid. I always laugh when people just look at his point totals and think he's basically the same player now as when he was scoring ~90 points when he was 27. He was a top 2 player in the league in 16 and 17, he's only top 10 now, on the bottom end. Which is amazing for somebody in their mid 30's - but still. Not the same dominance, not the same consistency, not the same energy shift by shift.
 

Turin

Erik Karlsson is good
Feb 27, 2018
23,296
27,278
Fwiw as of right now the top five all time forward ranking probably shakes out like this when it's all said and done:

All time forwards, career:

Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby, McDavid, Jagr

FWDS all time, ability/dominance:

Lemieux, Gretzky, McDavid, Crosby, Jagr

It's still really weird how two working class, relatively small cities have horded all the greatness over 50 years.
 

Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
56,025
47,444
I probably get annoyed way too easily over this stuff, but honestly it's more annoying seeing people who claim to be "Lifelong Penguins fan" posting non stop about how glorious McDavid is than actual Oilers fans gloating about him. At least they have a reason.

It's like a jealous ex-girlfriend constantly "liking" any negative comments the new girlfriend gets on her pictures, all while saying "I'm so happy for my ex and her. They look so good together!".
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
93,955
75,836
Joshua Tree, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
I probably get annoyed way too easily over this stuff, but honestly it's more annoying seeing people who claim to be "Lifelong Penguins fan" posting non stop about how glorious McDavid is than actual Oilers fans gloating about him. At least they have a reason.

It's like a jealous ex-girlfriend constantly "liking" any negative comments the new girlfriend gets on her pictures, all while saying "I'm so happy for my ex and her. They look so good together!".

Why? McDavid's legacy has no effect on Crosby or Lemieux's?
 

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