Around the NHL 2024 - Offseason Moves

[Bringer of Jollity]

Can't envision the Oilers having any change against Florida.

Feels like bad juju. That's what was said about:
-the Preds facing the Canucks (and I'm a homer but Vancouver was f***ing lucky to get by us)
-the Canucks facing the Oilers
-the Panthers facing the Rangers
-the Oilers facing the Stars

 

[weeze]

How about Minnesota, Atlanta or Columbus? Those are the teams we came in with that dealt with the same hurdles we did, how have they faired?


We've not been bad, comparable but obviously we need more or we wouldn't have had a full change.

The Preds have made the Plaoffs in 16 out of 25 years. If you only count the first year (03-04) making the PO and going forward then it is 16 out of 20. They (Preds) have been a very consistent PO making team. Only once since 03-04 have they missed the PO's in back to back seasons (13&14). I know we want more than that but some teams hardly get to see their team in the PO's.

Columbus in PO's 6 times since 08/09.
Minnesota in PO's 13 times since 02/03
Buffalo in PO's 4 times since 00/01.
Calgary in PO's 7 times since 03/04.

I could go on and list many other teams with less PO's than the Preds but I think I make my point. I think we as fans get used to making the PO's when it is not that easy to do. Sure we want more, so do these other teams but once you get in, anything can happen. Many had either Dallas or Colorado in the finals with NYR or Boston because of their goalies.

 

[Armourboy]

Feels like bad juju. That's what was said about:
-the Preds facing the Canucks (and I'm a homer but Vancouver was f***ing lucky to get by us)
-the Canucks facing the Oilers
-the Panthers facing the Rangers
-the Oilers facing the Stars

I mean after having watched it I'm happy, but I feel more like Dallas lost that series than Edmonton won it. Dallas didn't really play their game after the first couple. Especially in the last two they weren't that physical, and the became very perimeter, which is not how Dallas wins games.

Frankly I think Dallas just ran out of steam after going against Vegas and Colorado. They have some pretty old guys that play some pretty big minutes and I think it caught up with them.

On the flip side I feel like Edmonton got pretty lucky getting LA and Vancouver.

Anyone that didn't think Florida had a chance against the Rangers was being silly. Goalie wise it was about even going in, and Florida had the deeper forwards and outside of Fox, Florida's D was just as good.

 

[herzausstein]

I think at some point people start getting bored of just making it to the party. Over half the league makes it to the playoffs. Something recent trends are showing is that you don't have to have a stellar goaltender if the rest of your team is good enough to overcome the deficiencies or if your mediocre goalie can go on a run at the right time.

Skinner sv% first two series - .881%
Skinner sv% against Dallas - .922%

Bobrovsky sv% first two series - .902%
Bobrovsky sv% against Rangers - .921%

If people believe that all you have to do is get to the playoffs and then from there it is a complete crapshoot, that should be more reason to trade saros and bring in a good enough placeholder that can get us into the playoffs and boost our forward group or defense.

 

[Predsanddead24]

I think at some point people start getting bored of just making it to the party. Over half the league makes it to the playoffs. Something recent trends are showing is that you don't have to have a stellar goaltender if the rest of your team is good enough to overcome the deficiencies or if your mediocre goalie can go on a run at the right time.

Skinner sv% first two series - .881%
Skinner sv% against Dallas - .922%

Bobrovsky sv% first two series - .902%
Bobrovsky sv% against Rangers - .921%

If people believe that all you have to do is get to the playoffs and then from there it is a complete crapshoot, that should be more reason to trade saros and bring in a good enough placeholder that can get us into the playoffs and boost our forward group or defense.

The nice thing is we can spin these last two Cup Finals to match whatever decision we make with Saros. If we trade Saros or let him walk, Hill and Skinner are evidence you don't need a top goalie to be successful. If we re-sign Saros, Bobrovsky shows you can build around a highly paid goaltender even if there play is a bit erratic.

 

[weeze]

I think at some point people start getting bored of just making it to the party. Over half the league makes it to the playoffs. Something recent trends are showing is that you don't have to have a stellar goaltender if the rest of your team is good enough to overcome the deficiencies or if your mediocre goalie can go on a run at the right time.

Skinner sv% first two series - .881%
Skinner sv% against Dallas - .922%

Bobrovsky sv% first two series - .902%
Bobrovsky sv% against Rangers - .921%

If people believe that all you have to do is get to the playoffs and then from there it is a complete crapshoot, that should be more reason to trade saros and bring in a good enough placeholder that can get us into the playoffs and boost our forward group or defense.

The last Vezina winning goalie to win the SC was Tim Thomas with Boston in 2011. Most of the time the team does not make it to the finals. The goalie will get you to the PO's and keep you close but it takes more than just him to win it all.

So does that mean Saros is expendable seeing what other goalies have done this year? Or do they bring Asky up and and platoon him with Lanky?

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

I think at some point people start getting bored of just making it to the party. Over half the league makes it to the playoffs. Something recent trends are showing is that you don't have to have a stellar goaltender if the rest of your team is good enough to overcome the deficiencies or if your mediocre goalie can go on a run at the right time.

Skinner sv% first two series - .881%
Skinner sv% against Dallas - .922%

Bobrovsky sv% first two series - .902%
Bobrovsky sv% against Rangers - .921%

If people believe that all you have to do is get to the playoffs and then from there it is a complete crapshoot, that should be more reason to trade saros and bring in a good enough placeholder that can get us into the playoffs and boost our forward group or defense.

I think the Preds' history generally shows it's not enough to "just make the playoffs." 10th most playoff games in the past decade, 22nd in playoff win % during that time (all-time they are the 5th worst series winning %). That's while having two top goaltenders.

Of course, '16-'17 was also the ultimate example of the playoffs being a complete crapshoot with us making the Finals.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

The last Vezina winning goalie to win the SC was Tim Thomas with Boston in 2011. Most of the time the team does not make it to the finals. The goalie will get you to the PO's and keep you close but it takes more than just him to win it all.

So does that mean Saros is expendable seeing what other goalies have done this year? Or do they bring Asky up and and platoon him with Lanky?

While this may be true, Vasilevsky, Quick, Holtby, Crawford, and even Fleury were all "elite" level goaltenders. Binnington, Hill, and Kuemper are really the only rando goalies that have won a Cup in that stretch and Binnington was absolutely incredible that season (24-5-1 with a 1.89 GAA, and .927 Sv %!?!).

 

[herzausstein]

The nice thing is we can spin these last two Cup Finals to match whatever decision we make with Saros. If we trade Saros or let him walk, Hill and Skinner are evidence you don't need a top goalie to be successful. If we re-sign Saros, Bobrovsky shows you can build around a highly paid goaltender even if there play is a bit erratic.

Bobrovsky's contract has been seen as an albatross. Florida making it this far just tells me the importance of having a strong forward group: Barkov, Tkachuk, Lundell, Reinhart, Tarasenko, Bennett, Verharghe, etc.

 

[weeze]

While this may be true, Vasilevsky, Quick, Holtby, Crawford, and even Fleury were all "elite" level goaltenders. Binnington, Hill, and Kuemper are really the only rando goalies that have won a Cup in that stretch and Binnington was absolutely incredible that season (24-5-1 with a 1.89 GAA, and .927 Sv %!?!).

Not sure I would call all of those goalies elite. Crawford was good but not elite. Binnington had 1 great season. Hill had a great PO/SC run. Kuemper has been avg at best. V and Q and Fleury are elite and Holtby is just below then those others are below that. Not sure where I put Saros. Hasn't won anything.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Not sure I would call all of those goalies elite. Crawford was good but not elite. Binnington had 1 great season. Hill had a great PO/SC run. Kuemper has been avg at best. V and Q and Fleury are elite and Holtby is just below then those others are below that. Not sure where I put Saros. Hasn't won anything.

Crawford had 6th and 5th finishes in Vezina voting in back to back years, and then started getting derailed by injuries. Both him and Binnington were definitely top-level goaltenders in the years their teams won the Cup. The conventional wisdom being spouted regarding goaltenders is you can throw any schmoe behind a good team and still win the Cup. It ignores that schmoes Adin Hill and Darcy Kuemper still had to actually play well for that part to work, while the likes of Talbot, Campbell, Georgiev, and whatever randos Carolina, New Jersey, and Toronto keep running out there don't.

 

[Osprey]

I'm definitely pulling for Florida, couldn't care less if Ekholm wins one or not. They have Corey Perry, that pretty much negates any good will that team has for me.

Don't worry. Remember what I said a month ago...

I'm afraid that that destiny belongs to the Oilers, as they're ones with Corey Perry, loser of 3 Cup Finals in the last 5 years with 3 different teams. The only question is which lucky Eastern team gets to make it 4 in 6.

It turns out that that lucky Eastern team will be the Panthers. Congrats on the Cup, Florida!

 

[Viqsi]

It’s just a reminder of how frustrating it has been as a preds fan. Great to make the playoffs and all but only one conference final and one scf in 25 years is pretty terrible. I guess it could always be worse.

I think at some point people start getting bored of just making it to the party.

Hi. I'm a Preds fan, to be sure, but I'm originally and still primarily a Jackets fan. I became a Preds fan in part because it was less stressful than watching my team fail miserably again and again and again. Up here we had a brief half-decade of "everyday playoffs whatever" of the type that's being lamented here and that's still the high-water mark of our hockey fandom up here.

If there's anything more exasperating than going through that, it's watching other folks who routinely get what you would desperately kill for being disdainful and dismissive about what they do have.

 

[Armourboy]

Crawford had 6th and 5th finishes in Vezina voting in back to back years, and then started getting derailed by injuries. Both him and Binnington were definitely top-level goaltenders in the years their teams won the Cup. The conventional wisdom being spouted regarding goaltenders is you can throw any schmoe behind a good team and still win the Cup. It ignores that schmoes Adin Hill and Darcy Kuemper still had to actually play well for that part to work, while the likes of Talbot, Campbell, Georgiev, and whatever randos Carolina, New Jersey, and Toronto keep running out there don't.

Crawford gets way undersold in their cup runs, in fact one could argue once he fell apart so did that team.

Binnington was a goalie that went on an insane run, but for some reason people forget that entire team went on an insane run. He's also been solid since then, although a bit more up an down, but so has that team.

To me the only two that really qualify are Kemper and Hill, I think you could have put any starting goalie in the NHL with those rosters and won a cup with them.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I don't like Binnington at all as a goalie, but I would definitely go after him on his current contract (or Ullmark or Markstrom) if I was Toronto - as opposed to Saros.

Just take a shot with a guy who is/was/might be at least quasi-legit. Maybe they won't pan out either. But their teams are probably more motivated sellers, and you don't have to make any big commitment contractually on those goalies. The Leafs should go for one of those guys. That's what I'd do as a GM, even while believing that Saros is superior.

 

[Predsanddead24]

Here's an interesting question. Whose results would you prefer to have over the last five years ours or Vancouver's?

We've been a bubble team every year, have made the playoffs 4/5 years, but haven't won a series.

Vancouver has had some playoff success (3 series wins if you include the bubble play-in) but also had two years where they were never in the playoff hunt and one year as a bubble team that missed out.

For me it's easily Vancouver but if making the playoffs is your metric we've been the more successful team.

 

[triggrman]

In the last 5 years we’ve replaced a coach and a GM. Obviously we needed to change

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Here's an interesting question. Whose results would you prefer to have over the last five years ours or Vancouver's?

We've been a bubble team every year, have made the playoffs 4/5 years, but haven't won a series.

Vancouver has had some playoff success (3 series wins if you include the bubble play-in) but also had two years where they were never in the playoff hunt and one year as a bubble team that missed out.

For me it's easily Vancouver but if making the playoffs is your metric we've been the more successful team.

I dunno, but I guess you could add which roster (including draft picks and all upcoming picks/prospects/assets owned today) you'd rather have?

 

[Armourboy]

I dunno, but I guess you could add which roster (including draft picks and all upcoming picks/prospects/assets owned today) you'd rather have?

Vancouver wins that pretty easily imo, and frankly I feel like thats a roster that is pretty easy to fix if you make the right moves. Granted giving Petterson 11+ wasn't the right start.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Vancouver wins that pretty easily imo, and frankly I feel like thats a roster that is pretty easy to fix if you make the right moves. Granted giving Petterson 11+ wasn't the right start.

Interesting. I think our prospects/picks/reserve list kills theirs. They have Lekkerimaki and Willander, who can certainly saw off against our top F and D prospects. We kill them on picks. And I believe on other prospects past the top-2.

Then I'd rather have Saros/Askarov than Demko/Silovs, but could accept the saw-off there.

Hughes is younger than Josi, they can have the D since we both suck in terms of the rest of our D corps, but it's only that marginal 1D edge they have... until/unless they re-sign Zadorov and Myers anyway... if they re-sign those guys (or valid replacements) maybe it becomes a different situation? It's pretty marginal otherwise.

As you say, the Pettersson deal looks abysmal. They have some other good players, keeping those Miller/Boeser/Garland contracts that were oft-criticized last off-season has panned out for them. I do give them the edge up front, but note that one calendar year ago that might not have been viewed quite the same way... it's not so big a difference that such fluctuations couldn't affect the valuation.

So, ok, but not "pretty easily" IMHO. Both teams are "mid/meh".

 

[LCPreds]

Hi. I'm a Preds fan, to be sure, but I'm originally and still primarily a Jackets fan. I became a Preds fan in part because it was less stressful than watching my team fail miserably again and again and again. Up here we had a brief half-decade of "everyday playoffs whatever" of the type that's being lamented here and that's still the high-water mark of our hockey fandom up here.

If there's anything more exasperating than going through that, it's watching other folks who routinely get what you would desperately kill for being disdainful and dismissive about what they do have.

I get what you’re saying but I’m definitely board of just making the playoffs. And the outlook is likely more of the same as our truly really good/elite players are getting kind of old while we hope some kind of youth movement might happen in the midst of off season veteran signings having unexpected resurgence.

Anyway, I didn’t mean for this to turn into the tankathon discussion. Just get a little bitter/envious most years around this time.

 

[herzausstein]

Vancouver young NHL talent (<27) beats ours Pettersson, Boeser, Hollander, Hughes, Hronek are better than Novak, Glass, Evangelista, Lauzon, and Fabbro. People can complain about the Pettersson contract but he would easily be the best center we have now and potentially in franchise history.

 

[herzausstein]

Hi. I'm a Preds fan, to be sure, but I'm originally and still primarily a Jackets fan. I became a Preds fan in part because it was less stressful than watching my team fail miserably again and again and again. Up here we had a brief half-decade of "everyday playoffs whatever" of the type that's being lamented here and that's still the high-water mark of our hockey fandom up here.

If there's anything more exasperating than going through that, it's watching other folks who routinely get what you would desperately kill for being disdainful and dismissive about what they do have.

I get what you are saying but I'd desperately kill for a stanley cup championship.

 

[Armourboy]

Interesting. I think our prospects/picks/reserve list kills theirs. They have Lekkerimaki and Willander, who can certainly saw off against our top F and D prospects. We kill them on picks. And I believe on other prospects past the top-2.

Then I'd rather have Saros/Askarov than Demko/Silovs, but could accept the saw-off there.

Hughes is younger than Josi, they can have the D since we both suck in terms of the rest of our D corps, but it's only that marginal 1D edge they have... until/unless they re-sign Zadorov and Myers anyway... if they re-sign those guys (or valid replacements) maybe it becomes a different situation? It's pretty marginal otherwise.

As you say, the Pettersson deal looks abysmal. They have some other good players, keeping those Miller/Boeser/Garland contracts that were oft-criticized last off-season has panned out for them. I do give them the edge up front, but note that one calendar year ago that might not have been viewed quite the same way... it's not so big a difference that such fluctuations couldn't affect the valuation.

So, ok, but not "pretty easily" IMHO. Both teams are "mid/meh".

Prospects/Picks/etc don't mean much if they don't develop into something, and that's an unknown for a few years.

Only reason I take Saros over Demko is injury history, outside of that its a toss up. As we sit here today Silvos > Askarov, he's at least won an NHL playoff game.

Defense wise both teams are sort of a mess like you say, but they have the younger 1D and while I like Stastney, he's about the only one that impresses me of the bunch. They won't play Fabbro so I don't really even count him anymore.

The rest of the roster is where things get much better for Vancouver. They have some centers and wingers that can do something past the next two years that are proven, and as a said with a little roster management and a bit of luck there is something to work with there.

We have a really good 2nd line center playing 1st, a good 3rd line center in Sissons, but both are getting long in the tooth. Past that you don't have much on the horizon except guys that might replace what Sissons brings at the center position and then there is Novak, who showed in the playoffs he needs to be playing Center about as much as I need a hole in the head.

Forsberg is the one guy I'd probably take over anything they have on the current roster, well and Evangelista, but that a guy we are still hanging a lot of hope on right now as well.

I just feel like as a GM I could take Vancouvers roster and do something with it over the next 4-5 years. Shoot we could be headed for an actual tank and not even be trying in that same amount of time. As unexpected as this season was we aren't that far from a roster of old, injured, and busted prospects/Vets wondering where it all went wrong.

 

[herzausstein]

Prospects/Picks/etc don't mean much if they don't develop into something, and that's an unknown for a few years.

Only reason I take Saros over Demko is injury history, outside of that its a toss up. As we sit here today Silvos > Askarov, he's at least won an NHL playoff game.

Defense wise both teams are sort of a mess like you say, but they have the younger 1D and while I like Stastney, he's about the only one that impresses me of the bunch. They won't play Fabbro so I don't really even count him anymore.

The rest of the roster is where things get much better for Vancouver. They have some centers and wingers that can do something past the next two years that are proven, and as a said with a little roster management and a bit of luck there is something to work with there.

We have a really good 2nd line center playing 1st, a good 3rd line center in Sissons, but both are getting long in the tooth. Past that you don't have much on the horizon except guys that might replace what Sissons brings at the center position and then there is Novak, who showed in the playoffs he needs to be playing Center about as much as I need a hole in the head.

Forsberg is the one guy I'd probably take over anything they have on the current roster, well and Evangelista, but that a guy we are still hanging a lot of hope on right now as well.

I just feel like as a GM I could take Vancouvers roster and do something with it over the next 4-5 years. Shoot we could be headed for an actual tank and not even be trying in that same amount of time. As unexpected as this season was we aren't that far from a roster of old, injured, and busted prospects/Vets wondering where it all went wrong.

In terms of 4-5 years, I've got to agree they are currently set up better. Some of their older players will fall off some like Miller but when you are falling off from a point per game, you should still be pretty decent. Their top young talent Hughes and Pettersson will be in their prime and they're still a step above anything I see coming up through our system. We may end up with better organizational depth but bottom 6 and bottom pairing are easy to fill out with free agency. The 1D and 1C spots are much harder