Ya, it's a shame that I actually understand that just because people accuse someone of something that it doesn't always mean that they are guilty of something. If only we could all live in your la la land of social media justice.
Around the NHL 2024-2025
- Thread starter SoupNazi
- Start date
-
ALL Pickem Pools are now open - NFL Survivor, NFL Pickem AND NHL Survivor Click here for info and to join a pool
Reality Czech
Registered User
- Apr 17, 2017
- 5,436
- 8,827
So you don't think people deserve a 2nd chance? When fans are more upset than the actual victim in the case, you know we've gone off the deep end. Maybe something positive can still come out of this situation with an open dialogue rather than just banishing these guys forever. Sounds like Bowman reached out to Beach and has also earned the respect of Sheldon Kennedy with his actions in recent years.
"I should have done more": New Edmonton Oilers GM Stan Bowman has apologized to Kyle Beach, worked with Beach's university team
"Super exicted": Edmonton Oilers hockey boss Jeff Jackson stands up for new hire Stan Bowman
edmontonjournal.com
Memento
Future Authoress.
So you don't think people deserve a 2nd chance? When fans are more upset than the actual victim in the case, you know we've gone off the deep end. Maybe something positive can still come out of this situation with an open dialogue rather than just banishing these guys forever. Sounds like Bowman reached out to Beach and has also earned the respect of Sheldon Kennedy with his actions in recent years.
"I should have done more": New Edmonton Oilers GM Stan Bowman has apologized to Kyle Beach, worked with Beach's university team
"Super exicted": Edmonton Oilers hockey boss Jeff Jackson stands up for new hire Stan Bowman
I don't think they deserve a second chance in hockey when they enabled a sexual predator who assaulted two of their players and sexually harassed a bunch of lower-leveled assistants, didn't report any of it to the authorities, and hid it. The sexual predator got his name emblazoned on the greatest f***ing prize in all of North American hockey, as well as a day with said prize, and Bowman created a situation that enabled the predator to rape a teenaged boy. I don't think Bowman has even talked about him, let alone tried to mend the bridge that was clearly broken with that young boy, that Kyle Beach went so far to blame himself when NONE of it is his fault.
Bowman didn't even do the barest f***ing minimum for Kyle Beach or Black Ace 2 back then. Quenneville and "good leaders" like Toews, Kane, Keith, and Seabrook didn't even defend them from teammates taunting them about being raped in practice. They were sorry when they got caught but they were perfectly willing to hide the facts like cowards until Aldrich did yet another unforgivable thing, this time to a minor, perfectly willing to just brush the destroyed careers of Beach and Black Ace 2 aside like they meant nothing, all for the sake of one thing: a cold stainless-steel trophy. Over very human lives. Over their shattered dreams. Over every scrap of morality they ever had.
All Bowman, Quenneville and anyone in the Chicago Blackhawks organization cared about was winning at any cost. And what did it cost? Oh, yeah, two of his players being raped, along with a teenaged boy.
So, forgive me for not being lenient to people who enable predators. Bowman, Quenneville, and everyone involved should thank their f***ing lucky stars they can only be convicted in the court of public opinion. They don't deserve to have anything to do with hockey. Everyone deserves a second chance, but NOT without consequences. They can do their talks, podcasts, raise awareness in grassroots organizations, but there is NO f***ING REASON any of them should still have their old jobs back.
That's what I find disgusting, and yet, given what I've learned about anything regarding hockey (even worse scum-sucking excuses for human beings like Graham James and Bill Peters got jobs overseas in hockey, and even Mitchell Miller was given chance after chance) not surprising.
Last edited:
Linkens Mastery
Conductor of the TankTown Express
joe galiba
Registered User
- Apr 16, 2020
- 2,014
- 2,285
Linkens Mastery
Conductor of the TankTown Express
limme fix that for youclearly making Thomas' contract a steal
Reality Czech
Registered User
- Apr 17, 2017
- 5,436
- 8,827
I get where you're coming from, but my only issue is we don't know who knew what and when they knew it. Isn't it possible that they didn't know the whole story until after the fact and likely after the season ended? It may sound cold but I doubt many players and coaches would stop focusing on winning a Stanley Cup to investigate a rumor that something may have happened between a coach and a black ace. That's the reason I can't hold the players responsible, although team management are the ones who should have done something. If all parties knew the whole story all along then I agree with everything you said, but that may not be the case. The problem with the court of public opinion is that they usually don't know ask the facts before passing judgment.
But there is also a big difference between dropping the ball and not looking into it more and knowing exactly what happened and ignoring it. The latter is obviously much worse. The fact the Sheldon Kennedy trusts Bowman tells me that he's redeemable at least and hopefully Beach is ok with these guys being reinstated. I just get tired of fans acting like they know everything that happened because there is likely more to the story than the average fan knows.
joe galiba
Registered User
- Apr 16, 2020
- 2,014
- 2,285
the Thomas contract was a steal from the moment he signed it
Linkens Mastery
Conductor of the TankTown Express
Fair. I don't see Kyrou's deal as a "steal". It's way closer to market value unless he steps up his offensive output (especially early season).
joe galiba
Registered User
- Apr 16, 2020
- 2,014
- 2,285
I was being a bit tongue in cheek about the steal part, but if Konecny is getting 8.75/year then Kyrou is already a bit under market and will be well under market in a couple of years
we are already in steal territory for Thomas
steal:
Strategic Transference of Equipment to Alternate Locations
ChicagoBlues
Terraformers
- Oct 24, 2006
- 14,979
- 6,046
No, it's not surprising. There are certain aspects of our societies that consciously enable sexual predators. And, no, I don't need to cite a list of examples. A very sad "reality" is that most people are only NPC algorithms present in our lives for emotional context and development.
For me, second chances for sexual predators will never happen.
Personal note: One of my best friends is dealing with his dying mother, who repeatedly sexually predated upon him and his younger brother when they were teenagers. He remains by her side like a vapid dog, while I implore to him that he should let the bitch rot. Sexual predation on children is allowed by shit tons of people in our society. Just look at HFBlues for a few examples.
The question we all need to ask ourselves is, Why is this enabled and allowed to happen? What is the purpose?
Linkens Mastery
Conductor of the TankTown Express
I'm definitely expecting more 8.5-10mil deals for players in the coming 2 years.
Memento
Future Authoress.
Of course there is a big difference between dropping the ball and knowing.
Quenneville and Bowman most certainly knew after the Stanley Cup and hid everything. The fact that an intern came forward and said that Aldrich accosted him proved that it was an "open secret". The players on the Blackhawks knew what was going on; they kept taunting both Beach and Black Ace 2 with homophobic slurs about "Aldrich being their boyfriend" during practice the year after he left, so I can feel safe in blaming Toews, the team captain who is supposed to protect his teammates, for not protecting two players he knew were assaulted.
This was not a secret, and Bowman, Quenneville, and those responsible hid everything for well over a decade, letting the careers of Beach and Black Ace 2 fizzle out, let Aldrich wear out his welcome at Notre Dame before he went to a high school and raped a teenaged boy. Beach came out with his own story after that happened because he blamed himself for everything, a sad thing that happens with abuse and rape victims. Credit Beach and Black Ace 2 for having the courage - courage I wish I had - to come out with their stories because otherwise, nothing would've changed for the better.
I am fine with second chances. I'm far from perfect myself: I screwed up majorly in a lot of parts of my life, lost a lot of very good friends - including a girl I fell in love with back then - because of my stupidity and selfishness, and even though a large part of me doesn't want to give a second chance to myself after the things I did to people, I know I've changed for the better because I hate every bit of what I did.
That doesn't mean that there are no consequences to people's actions. I will never get those friends back. I will never get the girl I loved back. My name will forever hold a place of hatred in their hearts, and I have to live with that guilt, knowing that it's a natural consequence from my actions towards them.
Likewise, I don't believe that Bowman or Quenneville should be anywhere near professional hockey ever again. They can make their podcasts (Q, as much as I loved him when he was the Blues coach, hasn't shown the slightest bit of remorse in his interviews, and I despise him for it. Bowman has made an effort, at least, and I think there's some guilt in his actions, but I don't think he's doing this entirely out of altruism but instead because he got caught.), they can work with grassroots efforts to bring awareness and stop sexual predators from preying on people, they can use their acumen in so many different ways to impact and bring awareness to sexual violence...but they should never hold another job in the NHL again. Again, I'm a firm believer in natural consequences, and all of the Blackhawks management proved that they should never be allowed back in a position where players can get hurt under their watch again.
But like I said, guys like Graham James, Bill Peters and Mitchell Miller got chance after chance in the game of hockey, even after their - quite frankly - horrific actions, so I'm not surprised that Bowman got a GM position again. I won't be shocked when Quenneville gets rehired. Disgusted, but not shocked, and I hope it's not with us.
joe galiba
Registered User
- Apr 16, 2020
- 2,014
- 2,285
Absolutely
Thomas, Kyrou, Buch and Parayko contracts are going to look real good moving forwards
Memento
Future Authoress.
The thing about those who are sexually assaulted, abused (physically, emotionally, and psychologically), and groomed, much like your best friend, is that their thinking is warped by their rapist/abuser. They will not find fault with them, but instead ask, "What did I do wrong? It's my fault, how do I fix it? I'm sorry, please, how do I make it up to you?" Such was me with my abuser (whom I won't even name or define their actions; I can't get too personal with info on here).
People will think that it's strange, but there's such a stigma around it. Especially with male victims because machismo is regarded as the pinnacle, the aspiration. Anything less than manly is weeded out through decades of culture, derision, and shaming. Such is the case with Kyle Beach and Black Ace 2. Players taunted them with homophobic slurs because, in their eyes, they were less than men. It's even worse if the rapist is a woman; then the derision, the shame, the "he must've enjoyed it; if I got f***ed by an older woman, it would be the best day of my life." That's the wheel we have to break.
As a transwoman, I've had experience on both sides of the spectrum, and I don't judge victims based on gender. Their perpetrators, I judge, no matter the gender. Don't blame your friend and his younger brother. They'll need therapy, and even I've come back to my abuser, time and again. It's not an easy cycle to break, and seeking help is the first step. Seeking help to help victims realize that it isn't their fault.
Brian39
Registered User
- Apr 24, 2014
- 7,437
- 13,838
Ah yes the "social media justice la la land" that was Aldrich pleading guilty to sexual conduct with a 16 year old and going to jail, an independent law firm performing a year+ long investigation involving 100+ subjects, the organization admitting fault, a $2M fine from the NHL, multiple suspensions from the NHL, a settled lawsuit with one victim, and another pending lawsuit with a second victim.
Again, you have made it clear that your stance is to ignore the actual legal mechanisms used to determine guilt and culpability in favor of your own personal belief that it is funny.
Last edited:
Brian39
Registered User
- Apr 24, 2014
- 7,437
- 13,838
The report from the investigation outlines it pretty clearly:
"Later on May 23, within an hour after the Blackhawks won the playoff game that secured their place in the Stanley Cup Finals, five members of senior management (then-President John McDonough, MacIsaac, General Manager Stan Bowman, then-Executive Vice President Jay Blunk, and then-Assistant General Manager Kevin Cheveldayoff), along with then-head coach Joel Quenneville, and Gary, met to discuss what had been learned about Aldrich and John Doe. Accounts of the meeting vary significantly, and the participants had limited recollections of the details of the meeting. All of the participants recalled being informed that there was an incident between Aldrich and John Doe involving an unwelcome sexual advance, but, for the most part, the participants reported that they only learned about the incident at a high level—that Aldrich, a coach, tried to “get under the sheets” with John Doe, a player. Gary recalled telling everyone in the meeting what he said John Doe told him—that Aldrich was pressuring John Doe to have sex with him and that Aldrich told John Doe that if John Doe did not submit to Aldrich’s advances, he could harm John Doe’s career."
"Gary" is the person who Beach confided in. He is the one who informed the front office people about it on May 23, 2010 and he is adamant that his description of the conduct included the video coach threatening to harm a player's career unless he gave in to sexual advances.
Here is Bowman's recollection:
"Bowman recalled that, during the May 23, 2010 meeting, either MacIsaac or Gary stated that there was an incident between John Doe and Aldrich in which Aldrich had tried to “climb into bed” with John Doe one night at Aldrich’s apartment.406 Bowman recalled that Gary said he had spoken to John Doe earlier that day and that John Doe did not want to talk about it.407 Bowman told us that, as described to him, the situation did not strike him as immediately alarming at the time as the allegation did not involve a sexual assault as having occurred."
Here is the Director of HR's recollection:
"According to the then-Director of Human Resources, three weeks later, on June 14, McDonough called the Director into his office and told her that he learned of an incident a few weeks earlier involving Aldrich.431 The Director of Human Resources recalled that McDonough told her that the incident involved drinking and Aldrich “hitting on” or making a sexual advance on John Doe at an off-site apartment.432 The Director of Human Resources also recalled McDonough describing the meeting in his office on May 23 after Game 4 ended with MacIsaac, Bowman, Gary, and Quenneville.433 The Director of Human Resources recalled that McDonough told her that, during the meeting, the group decided not to alert Human Resources or outside legal counsel and to not do anything about the incident during the playoffs so as not to “disturb team chemistry.”434 The Director of Human Resources further recalled McDonough saying that the group decided to keep the alleged incident among themselves for the duration of the playoffs and that they would address the issue as soon as possible after the season.435
The Director of Human Resources also recalled McDonough referencing the fact that John Doe was physically larger than Aldrich.436 When interviewed, McDonough made the same comment, adding that it was hard for him to imagine that a non-consensual sexual encounter occurred between John Doe, who McDonough believed to be 6’3” and 230 lb. in 2010, and Aldrich, who McDonough believed to be 5’6” and 130 lb. in 2010."
This isn't the court of public opinion. There is a thorough, well cited, lengthy report about it. It's 89 pages long, spends time discussing the statements of every relevant person, contains 679 citations, and relied on the review of tons of business records in addition to interviews. It's been publicly available since 2021.
Everyone agrees that management (Bowman included) was made aware on May 23, 2010 before the Cup Final. At minimum, everyone agrees that on this date, they were informed that Aldrich was trying to 'get under the sheets' with a player. The reporting party is crystal clear that he included the detail that Aldrich threatened the player's career if he didn't give in. Multiple people (Bowman included) state that they weren't alarmed by it because they didn't believe Aldrich succeeded in assaulting the player.
The absolute best case scenario if you take Bowman at face value is that he was fine with Aldrich attempting to use his position of power to sleep with players who didn't want to sleep with him, but he would have done more if he knew that Aldrich had been successful. That is the absolute best case scenario. The full context of the report gives every reason to believe that it was worse than that.
But can we please stop this claim that we just have no idea who knew what and when? You can never recount the details of any event in perfect, unanimous detail. But it is pretty damn clear that what was shared in that room was a hell of a lot more than some vague, easy to shrug off sliver of what Beach told Gary.
ChicagoBlues
Terraformers
- Oct 24, 2006
- 14,979
- 6,046
It will go much better for a few individuals here if they would just stop spouting excuses and being part of the problem.
There have been others here over the years, but it appears they know when to keep their f***ing mouths shut.
There have been others here over the years, but it appears they know when to keep their f***ing mouths shut.
Last edited:
ChicagoBlues
Terraformers
- Oct 24, 2006
- 14,979
- 6,046
How much was Sheldon Kennedy paid to endorse Bowman?
These abusive assholes must've really worked him over with manipulation. And like a sadly-typical abused person, he gave in.
These abusive assholes must've really worked him over with manipulation. And like a sadly-typical abused person, he gave in.
Last edited:
Celtic Note
Living the dream
- Dec 22, 2006
- 17,219
- 6,142
Except you don’t understand. The situation isn’t some run of the mill media generated folly. There is documentation that has been provided and more than once.
If you want to choose not to listen or read about the situation, that’s your choice. But, that choice doesn’t mean you understand.
ChicagoBlues
Terraformers
- Oct 24, 2006
- 14,979
- 6,046
I am far from someone who is in the believe all accusers. In fact, I tend to lean very heavily in the camp of - wait until it all comes out.
But to me, from what I have read, it appears that this was reported correctly and those in power decided to cover it up.
I am all for 2nd chances, especially for kids. But in this case, what has been presented, Bowman should not be put back into a similar position of power - considering what appears to be his total failure.
That’s a big extension for Faber after 1 season
BlueOil
"well-informed"
- Apr 28, 2010
- 7,187
- 4,204
seems like a gamble, but as long as the cap goes up, it's probably going to be alright and might be a steal. he looked like a lot more than a flash in the pan last season
- Jul 4, 2014
- 7,973
- 8,437
He sure seems like the real deal, but that is a huge investment in a player with a very limited track record. Personally, I think he's only going to get better when they get Spurgeon back in the lineup, but I'm not sure I would want our GM taking that big of a leap of faith on a player by signing a max term extension before he has to. It is helpful on their end that this extension doesn't kick in until Suter and Parise's buyout dead cap hits drop below $1 million each.
Ad
Latest posts
-
-
F Jaxon Jacobson - Brandon Wheat Kings U15 AAA, WAAA U15 (2027 Draft)- Latest: landy92mack29
-
-
