Around the NHL - 2023 offseason edition

[Guttersniped]

Johansen has an $8 million cap hit on a deal from 2017? WAT?

That's more than Bratt's new deal from 6 years later lol.

Probably not a bad player at $4 million, but I didn't remember he was making that much.

Columbus had dragged out contract fight with him before getting him signed to a 3 year/4m deal on Oct 6, 2014.

Spoiler: It was very public and memorable

From the Hockey News article:

<cut>

Stamkos was drafted two years earlier and got a 5 year/7.5m deal in 2011-12, when the salary cap was 64.3m. It was 69m in 2014-15.
Toews was drafted 2 years before Stamkos, and got a 5 year/6.3m deal in 2010-11, when the cap was 59.4m. Kane was drafted a year later but got the same deal that year.

A decade later and his meltdown is still hilarious to me.

Dear reader, the Blue Jackets in fact did end up giving RyJo 4m in a 3 year bridge deal.

“Very personal” lol
<cut.>

Lol

The Hockey News article quotes from the epic, and I do mean epic, annual press luncheon where John Davidson just goes off about the negotiations. Let’s just say RyJo getting traded in Jan 2016 was far from a shocker.

I searched but tragically can’t find any footage of JD from 2014 (damn you internet!).

Spoiler: The bitchfest also included gems like…

That’s 2 year/3m, 6 year/5.33m and 8 year/5.75m.

“Contracts have been extended on our behalf that are close to $50 million. I think that our group has been very fair. In fact, more than fair. And it’s nowhere near what they want,” Davidson said, his voice rising. “We’re trying to do the right thing for our organization. We’re trying to be very fair to a good young man in Ryan Johansen who’s got a bright future here. We’re trying to do the right thing. And all we’re getting is no, no, no, no.”

Jarmo adds this:

“We were talking about (a contract) just under John Tavares, who is largely viewed as a franchise player and (a member of) Team Canada,” Kekalainen said. “And Jamie Benn, the captain of the Dallas Stars, also a Team Canada player. I often try not to get into comparisons to other players, but because of the way contract negotiations go, you have to.”

from National Post
Tavares was drafted 2 years earlier and signed a (bargain) 6 year/5.5m deal that started in 2012-13, when the cap was 60m.
Benn was drafted 3 years earlier and signed a 5 year/5.25m deal that also started in 2012-13.
(Both players got f***ed a bit by signing around the lockout/ new CBA/ rollback of salary cap.)

Davison:

"We've got Boone Jenner who can move to the middle. We've got (Brandon) Dubinsky, who can move up a spot," Davidson said. "Nothing changes for us (if Johansen's not there). We're not a team that has to get on our knees to beg people to play for us. It's not going to happen."
<cut>
"Just because a guy has one good year, are you supposed to all of a sudden hand him the keys to city hall? We're not trying to low-ball a guy. We don't low-ball anybody."

Also from Twitter:
JD: "(Johansen) is just not here. Period. We've been told if we don't give them what they want they'll be leaving town."
Also

Bill Zito apparently ended up handling the negotiations lol.

 

[Forge]

I was listening to puck soup, and man...they are really hard on Elias' candidacy as hall of famer. Ryan Lambert basically used Shane Doan as a comparable for him because Elias "played 20 years" without acknowledging that Elias missed quite a bit of time during his career. If he didn't, Elias probably scores 1150 points and his candidacy probably isn't in question.

I'm not saying that people have to believe that Elias was a hall of famer, but comparing him to someone like Doan is a massive misunderstanding of who Elias was as a player. He's much closer to someone like Daniel Sedin in his statistical profile than he is Shane Doan. Yes, Elias probably "compiled" at the end to his that 1000 point, 400 goal benchmark, but I Don't think that there is necessarily anything wrong with that when he still profiles well to hall of fame contemporaries. I mean, I think one of the reasons that Zetterberg isn't getting a ton of push is that he didn't hit certain benchmarks. They are important sometimes. He compiled at the end to compensate for time missed during his prime. When his rates are still at a level that is good enough for the hall, I don't view this as an issue.

I think saying Elias is a "hall of verry good guy" is kind of not an adequate representation. Almost feel like a guy like Elias and Zetterberg need a new designation - hall of fame players who didn't have the hall of fame career

 

[Mgd31]

Philadelphia getting a first round pick for Kevin Hayes would be a great move by Briere

 

[Eggtimer]

Calgary and Winnipeg seem to be in the same bad spot. At some point it won't shock me if Edmonton gets stuck there too if McDavid and Draisatl decide to move on. Calgary and Winnipeg apparently don't want to rebuild which is usually the problem. Vancouver has been stuck in mediocrity for years because of their self defeating attempts at staying "competitive".

Calgary is >>> as far as cities go . Calgary is a cleaner city and gets chinooks more often so winters aren’t as bad . Calgary is closer to places like Banff and awesome skiing etc .

 

[Forge]

Philadelphia getting a first round pick for Kevin Hayes would be a great move by Briere

If they retain a considerable amount, they should definitely get that imo. He's still a 50+ point guy. Still a 2c guy. If you can get that for 3 more years at say 4-4.5 million, thats definitely worth a first.

 

[FinnishDevil]

 

[Devs3cups]

I was listening to puck soup, and man...they are really hard on Elias' candidacy as hall of famer. Ryan Lambert basically used Shane Doan as a comparable for him

@Bleedred right now

 

[Cheddabombs]

Who's on the Blues and is ginger? Trying to connect the dots here

 

[MartyOwns]

holy shit i missed a lot

 

[MadDevil]

I remember Lambert saying "Patrik Elias? I mean, what are we even doing here?" a while back when talking about the HOF, so I'm not surprised. I don't think Patty is a slam dunk candidate but certainly at least deserves a conversation.

 

[Forge]

 

[MartyOwns]

sounds like kevin hayes, i’m sure there must be retention

 

[jkrdevil]

I was listening to puck soup, and man...they are really hard on Elias' candidacy as hall of famer. Ryan Lambert basically used Shane Doan as a comparable for him because Elias "played 20 years" without acknowledging that Elias missed quite a bit of time during his career. If he didn't, Elias probably scores 1150 points and his candidacy probably isn't in question.

I'm not saying that people have to believe that Elias was a hall of famer, but comparing him to someone like Doan is a massive misunderstanding of who Elias was as a player. He's much closer to someone like Daniel Sedin in his statistical profile than he is Shane Doan. Yes, Elias probably "compiled" at the end to his that 1000 point, 400 goal benchmark, but I Don't think that there is necessarily anything wrong with that when he still profiles well to hall of fame contemporaries. I mean, I think one of the reasons that Zetterberg isn't getting a ton of push is that he didn't hit certain benchmarks. They are important sometimes. He compiled at the end to compensate for time missed during his prime. When his rates are still at a level that is good enough for the hall, I don't view this as an issue.

I think saying Elias is a "hall of verry good guy" is kind of not an adequate representation. Almost feel like a guy like Elias and Zetterberg need a new designation - hall of fame players who didn't have the hall of fame career

Should note Lambert is someone who admittedly didn’t watch the NHL prior to 2004, which knocks out the first half of Elias’ career.

Elias is a player whose timing of his career hurts his case. He career started at the onset when scoring dropped dramatically league wide so his raw numbers don’t compare with the players that came right before him. But on the other hand because his career started in the late 90’s he doesn’t benefit from the “analytics” revolution and the change in how players are viewed (even by 200 hockey men) that came in the late 00’s and 10’s. His post 2007 analytics as a 30+ year old are off the charts. Imagine what a prime Elias was. Also he missed out on how Selke voting changed. His numbers (and success) is comparable to a lot of guys who are considered sure fire guys.

The Hall of Fame voting style (by a small committee) also hurts. It’s very Canadian biased towards either Canadians or guys who played in Canada. Elias is neither.

 

[FinnishDevil]

NHL GMs when they give their whole blueline NTCs and they actually refuse the waive them

 

[Forge]

I remember Lambert saying "Patrik Elias? I mean, what are we even doing here?" a while back when talking about the HOF, so I'm not surprised. I don't think Patty is a slam dunk candidate but certainly at least deserves a conversation.

I legit think that Lambert believes Elias played 20 years and just scored 50 points a year lol.

He was also more productive in the post season than both of the Sedins.

Its even weirder given that he think Toews is a lock to get in.

Elias is in the spot where if he gets into the Hall, he's not nearly the worst player in the hall, but if he doesn't get it, he's probably not the best player not in.

Paul Pidutti does a whole bunch of HOF candidacy stuff and he likes Elias as a guy with an underrated career. He had an article where he selected the next 10 years and he had 2026 as the sweet spot for Elias.

 

[Bleedred]

I was listening to puck soup, and man...they are really hard on Elias' candidacy as hall of famer. Ryan Lambert basically used Shane Doan as a comparable for him because Elias "played 20 years" without acknowledging that Elias missed quite a bit of time during his career. If he didn't, Elias probably scores 1150 points and his candidacy probably isn't in question.

I'm not saying that people have to believe that Elias was a hall of famer, but comparing him to someone like Doan is a massive misunderstanding of who Elias was as a player. He's much closer to someone like Daniel Sedin in his statistical profile than he is Shane Doan. Yes, Elias probably "compiled" at the end to his that 1000 point, 400 goal benchmark, but I Don't think that there is necessarily anything wrong with that when he still profiles well to hall of fame contemporaries. I mean, I think one of the reasons that Zetterberg isn't getting a ton of push is that he didn't hit certain benchmarks. They are important sometimes. He compiled at the end to compensate for time missed during his prime. When his rates are still at a level that is good enough for the hall, I don't view this as an issue.

I think saying Elias is a "hall of verry good guy" is kind of not an adequate representation. Almost feel like a guy like Elias and Zetterberg need a new designation - hall of fame players who didn't have the hall of fame career

Everything that guy just said (nobody Lambert) is bullshit.

And they've also confirmed they were an HF boards posters about 11 years ago as well.

Comparing Elias to Doan is the biggest bunch of f***in shit I've ever heard.

And it's a messy, nasty, dumpy, toxic, disgusting, permanently staining shit.

I don't care to hear anything else that anyone has to say, who thinks these two are comparable at all.

We all get dumber to having to hear such malarkey.

 

[Better Call Sal]

I like and still listen to Puck Soup, but I don’t take a ton of stock into Lambert. He’s good for a funny quip every once in a while, but as mentioned, he didn’t begin following the NHL until sometime in the 2000s. He’s also a very vocal “small Hall” guy with respect to the Hall of Fame.

 

[JrFischer54]

Should note Lambert is someone who admittedly didn’t watch the NHL prior to 2004, which knocks out the first half of Elias’ career.

Elias is a player whose timing of his career hurts his case. He career started at the onset when scoring dropped dramatically league wide so his raw numbers don’t compare with the players that came right before him. But on the other hand because his career started in the late 90’s he doesn’t benefit from the “analytics” revolution and the change in how players are viewed (even by 200 hockey men) that came in the late 00’s and 10’s. His post 2007 analytics as a 30+ year old are off the charts. Imagine what a prime Elias was. Also he missed out on how Selke voting changed. His numbers (and success) is comparable to a lot of guys who are considered sure fire guys.

The Hall of Fame voting style (by a small committee) also hurts. It’s very Canadian biased towards either Canadians or guys who played in Canada. Elias is neither.

Elias is a very good player but he shouldn’t he in hof. The hall of fame should be for truly great players. Sadly it isn’t but it should be this Elias being in limbo

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Doug Armstrong has to be the worst GM with a Cup recently, my god does he suck.

 

[Oneiro]

They got their cup thanks to Trash Bin and ROR but such a purgatory team before and after that run.

I love seeing CBJ, STL, etc. overreact to their seasons, though. Just sets up even clearer skies for us down the line.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Elias is a very good player but he shouldn’t he in hof. The hall of fame should be for truly great players. Sadly it isn’t but it should be this Elias being in limbo

Patrik Elias was a truly great player by any meaningful definition. Points aren’t the only measure of a player’s greatness. His impact was elite even as an old man.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

They got their cup thanks to Trash Bin and ROR but such a purgatory team before and after that run.

I love seeing CBJ, STL, etc. overreact to their seasons, though. Just sets up even clearer skies for us down the line.

The 2010 Sabres ran themselves like a clown franchise, it was pretty easy to poach them. And not for nothing, that trade is ending up like a win-win for both sides. Thompson looks like an absolute stud for Buffalo, the Binnington story coming out of nowhere to pull a Cam Ward is why I call him lucky for it.

 

[Forge]

Damnit, I really wanted him gone from Carolina. He's still an excellent matchup play

Patrik Elias was a truly great player by any meaningful definition. Points aren’t the only measure of a player’s greatness. His impact was elite even as an old man.

It sucks that he didn't get the selke love that he probably deserved more of during his career

 

[Bleedred]

Look, I have nothing against Shane Doan, he was a pretty good player for a pretty long time. Had pretty good longevity as well. He may have even had another year in him in the league if he hadn't chosen to retire.

I never particularly disliked him as a player. I hate this notion from a select few that think he was as good or potentially better than Patrik Elias, which he was not.

I'm actually very glad he got out of the DUMP that is the Arizona Coyotes. He was probably one of the last friend's of those dirty, crooked, money laundering pieces of feces. And their DEADBEAT owners. Playing in a rental building that's too small for a mid-level punk rock festival.

 

[Forge]