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Hockey Duckie said:
Before Verbeek, Madden's group would be taking big swings late in the first round. In 2018, Lundy dropped to us. In 2019, we took a flyer on Tracey. In 2020, we decided on low motor, high skilled Perreault (our version of 2019 Kaliyev). The drafting of Gaucher and Myatovic is a different direction.

What if asst. Madden wanted someone else, but GM Verbeek wanted Gaucher? With Snuggerud and Kulich still on board at pick 22, those talents would have been drafted by Murray as that looked like the pattern shared in the aforementioned paragraph.

In the same Gaucher draft season, Madden's crew went swinging for the fences from the 5th round with F Hvidston, F Callow (NCAA route), and G Buteyets (Russian, VHL).

As for picking Holland in the first round, Madden's second pick in the first round was Palmieri. So there's that.
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I think the Gaucher pick looks a lot like Colangelo, Tracey, Lundestrom, Groulx, and Rakell - safer two-way picks. I don't think this is out of character for Madden at all. Sometimes he swings for the fences, sometimes he takes high floor guys (although we'll see how that goes for Tracey and Colangelo).
 
2faded said:
I know he is snakebitten and will eventually light it up. But, I am getting mild enjoyment out of Bedard not being able to score.
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ya, hes at a 6.3 shot percentage.... no way that sticks the way he shoots the puck.

A player like him wll end up at 12% min and prob closer to 15

ScarTroy said:
Columbus has no business being as bad as they were last year and are looking now.
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didnt they have a last second coaching change... could be learning a whole new system/scheme on the fly. On paper the team should be pretty solid outside of questinable goaltenders
Will be interesting to compare Jiricek + Fantilli vs Carlsson and mintyukov
 
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Zegs2sendhelp said:
didnt they have a last second coaching change... could be learning a whole new system/scheme on the fly
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Yeah but it was before camp right? They can blame that somewhat because maybe Vincent wasn’t ready, but it’s not like they had to switch while camp was already started.
 
JAHV said:
I think the Gaucher pick looks a lot like Colangelo, Tracey, Lundestrom, Groulx, and Rakell - safer two-way picks. I don't think this is out of character for Madden at all. Sometimes he swings for the fences, sometimes he takes high floor guys (although we'll see how that goes for Tracey and Colangelo).
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Rd 1 picks: Rakell, Lundy, Tracey, Gaucher
Rd 2 picks: Groulx, Colangelo

Gaucher isn't the same as the other late round picks. Gaucher is a bottom-6C from projections.

  • With Rakell, we actually traded down to pick up the 30th and 39th picks. Gibby was the 39th pick. I don't many would have minded Gaucher at pick 30th and picked up another 2nd round pick.

    Extra tidbit. The intended pick at 22 was scoring RW Stefan Noesen, but the Sens drafted him 21st overall. Rakell centered Noesen in juniors. Weirdly enough, Rakell and Noesen swapped places, Noesen was originally a center and Rakell a RW.
  • With Lundy, he had projections as a 2LW at best or a safe 2C/3C. He has speed to spare and already two year in the SHL. Lundy fell to us. No other forwards drafted after Lundy did well in the 2018 draft. With Gaucher's situation, there was Snuggerud and Kulich on the board still at 22nd overall.
  • Tracey was selected far higher than expected because his offense blossomed as a rookie in is D+0 year. Tracey was drafted to potentially become a top-6 LW.
Gaucher is in the same mold as Groulx, but Gaucher is bit bigger, meaner, and faster straight line speed out of the draft. Though, Gaucher's production runs similar to Groulx's production in juniors. Groulx was selected 54th overall, not 22nd overall.
 
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Hockey Duckie said:
Rd 1 picks: Rakell, Lundy, Tracey, Gaucher
Rd 2 picks: Groulx, Colangelo

Gaucher isn't the same as the other late round picks. Gaucher is a bottom-6C from projections.

  • With Rakell, we actually traded down to pick up the 30th and 39th picks. Gibby was the 39th pick. I don't many would have minded Gaucher at pick 30th and picked up another 2nd round pick.

    Extra tidbit. The intended pick at 22 was scoring RW Stefan Noesen, but the Sens drafted him 21st overall. Rakell centered Noesen in juniors. Weirdly enough, Rakell and Noesen swapped places, Noesen was originally a center and Rakell a RW.
  • With Lundy, he had projections as a 2LW at best or a safe 2C/3C. He has speed to spare and already two year in the SHL. Lundy fell to us. No other forwards drafted after Lundy did well in the 2018 draft. With Gaucher's situation, there was Snuggerud and Kulich on the board still at 22nd overall.
  • Tracey was selected far higher than expected because his offense blossomed as a rookie in is D+0 year. Tracey was drafted to potentially become a top-6 LW.
Gaucher is in the same mold as Groulx, but Gaucher is bit bigger, meaner, and faster straight line speed out of the draft. Though, Gaucher's production runs similar to Groulx's production in juniors. Groulx was selected 54th overall, not 22nd overall.
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When you say that "Gaucher is a bottom-6C from projections," you're not including the Ducks' internal projections, which we don't have access to. How much those projections use Verbeek's input over Madden's is impossible to tell, but I don't think there's evidence that we're privy to.

I admit, I'm not the biggest prospect hound in the world, but I don't see a lot of difference between Gaucher and Lundestrom. Lundestrom had more speed to his game, while Gaucher had more size and strength. But both were safe, two-way centers who didn't have the upside of some guys picked after them (Veleno, Akil Thomas, Marchenko, Wilde, in the case of Lundestrom). Whether those upside guys work out or not is irrelevant since we're talking about the decision making at the time.

The Gaucher selection doesn't seem incompatible with Madden's past drafts.
 
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JAHV said:
When you say that "Gaucher is a bottom-6C from projections," you're not including the Ducks' internal projections, which we don't have access to. How much those projections use Verbeek's input over Madden's is impossible to tell, but I don't think there's evidence that we're privy to.

I admit, I'm not the biggest prospect hound in the world, but I don't see a lot of difference between Gaucher and Lundestrom. Lundestrom had more speed to his game, while Gaucher had more size and strength. But both were safe, two-way centers who didn't have the upside of some guys picked after them (Veleno, Akil Thomas, Marchenko, Wilde, in the case of Lundestrom). Whether those upside guys work out or not is irrelevant since we're talking about the decision making at the time.

The Gaucher selection doesn't seem incompatible with Madden's past drafts.
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Clearly you glossed over what I wrote for Lundy. I'll share it again so that you understand the context missed:

  • With Lundy, he had projections as a 2LW at best or a safe 2C/3C. He has speed to spare and already two year in the SHL. Lundy fell to us. No other forwards drafted after Lundy did well in the [first round of the] 2018 draft. With Gaucher's situation, there was Snuggerud and Kulich on the board still at 22nd overall.
With Snuggerud and Kulich on the boards at 22nd overall, those are the types of players GM Murray would have went after because it runs along the same logic of drafting Tracey and Perreault, which is to find top-6 potential forwards.

If we're comparing Lundy to Gaucher, there's a world of difference, IMO. Gaucher has only slightly better straight-line speed faster than Groulx. Lundy will blow both away with his speed. Gaucher turns like a huge cruise liner at sea while Lundy can turn on a dime as well as burst out of that turn. Lundy was often named as probably the only 2018 draft eligible player who could play in the NHL as an 18-year old due to his speed + defense playing in the SHL for the past two seasons. Lundy did play as an 18-year old in the NHL. You're downplaying Lundy's strength. Gaucher has only faced off against his peer age, not against men for two seasons in the SHL, Sweden's top men's hockey league.

Lundy's offense is perplexing b/c across the pond, he's a high scorer. For some reason, we haven't been able to figure out how to transfer that offense onto the smaller sheet.

The selection of Gaucher with Snuggerud and Kulich still available is a different path from GM Murray. Gaucher isn't incompatible with Madden's identification, since he's a slightly better physical specimen as Groulx, but Groulx was selected in the middle of the 2nd round.
 
Hockey Duckie said:
Clearly you glossed over what I wrote for Lundy. I'll share it again so that you understand the context missed:

  • With Lundy, he had projections as a 2LW at best or a safe 2C/3C. He has speed to spare and already two year in the SHL. Lundy fell to us. No other forwards drafted after Lundy did well in the [first round of the] 2018 draft. With Gaucher's situation, there was Snuggerud and Kulich on the board still at 22nd overall.
With Snuggerud and Kulich on the boards at 22nd overall, those are the types of players GM Murray would have went after because it runs along the same logic of drafting Tracey and Perreault, which is to find top-6 potential forwards.

If we're comparing Lundy to Gaucher, there's a world of difference, IMO. Gaucher has only slightly better straight-line speed faster than Groulx. Lundy will blow both away with his speed. Gaucher turns like a huge cruise liner at sea while Lundy can turn on a dime as well as burst out of that turn. Lundy was often named as probably the only 2018 draft eligible player who could play in the NHL as an 18-year old due to his speed + defense playing in the SHL for the past two seasons. Lundy did play as an 18-year old in the NHL. You're downplaying Lundy's strength. Gaucher has only faced off against his peer age, not against men for two seasons in the SHL, Sweden's top men's hockey league.

Lundy's offense is perplexing b/c across the pond, he's a high scorer. For some reason, we haven't been able to figure out how to transfer that offense onto the smaller sheet.

The selection of Gaucher with Snuggerud and Kulich still available is a different path from GM Murray. Gaucher isn't incompatible with Madden's identification, since he's a slightly better physical specimen as Groulx, but Groulx was selected in the middle of the 2nd round.
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I didn't gloss over what you wrote about Lundestrom. I just don't think it has a significant impact on the point you're making. There's not enough evidence to suggest that Madden was over-ridden by Verbeek in the Gaucher pick. There are plenty of reasons why Madden might not have liked Snuggerud or Kulich that we're not privy to. And there were plenty of higher upside forwards still on the board when Lundestrom was drafted.

Of course a GM is going to have an impact on draft strategy, but 1. Madden is a veteran and highly respected within the organization and the industry - if he suggested a different player and was ignored, he'd leave the Ducks and have a dozen franchises calling him in five minutes; and 2. Verbeek himself publicly said that he mostly left that draft to his staff, knowing that he was still getting up and running as a first time GM.

Whatever Gaucher ends up being, both Madden and Verbeek will share responsibility: Madden for being the head scout in charge of vetting him and recommending him to be drafted and Verbeek for employing Madden and listening to him.
 
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TheGoodShepard1 said:
I understand QoC and we’re only 3 games in, but the Sharks have allowed 125 shots in 9 periods. Our record of infamy might only last one season!
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Traded away Meier and Karlsson. Hertl could still end up in Boston to play with his Czech buddy Pasternak. Karlsson is good at keeping the puck in the offensive zone so that means the Sharks spend less time in the offensive zone. Their only good Dman is Thrun atm and he's a rookie.
 
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Anaheim4ever said:
Traded away Meier and Karlsson. Hertl could still end up in Boston to play with his Czech buddy Pasternak. Karlsson is good at keeping the puck in the offensive zone so that means the Sharks spend less time in the offensive zone. Their only good Dman is Thrun atm and he's a rookie.
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As Quinn said postgame, they play too soft and are easy to play against. They have a pretty small F lineup outside Hertl I guess
 
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Kalv said:
As Quinn said postgame, they play too soft and are easy to play against. They have a pretty small F lineup outside Hertl I guess
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Yeah Eklund and Bordeleau at 5'10 make McTavish look BIG.

Carlsson at 6'3 vs Will Smith at 6'0
McTavish at 6'0 vs 5'10 Bordeleau
Zegras at 6'0 vs Eklund at 5'10
 
GreatBear said:
That has to be quite a shock to Thrun. Long term it may be better for him to play larger minutes in the AHL and better develop his game.
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I don't understand why he's not playing more minutes for them now, especially if Vlasic is injured. He's not a 19-year-old out of juniors like Mintyukov - he's 22 and has been playing NCAA hockey for four years. The only way this makes sense is if the Sharks are worried about him being damaged by either having to play tough minutes on an awful team, or if the locker room is in a terrible place. Otherwise, it's just a blatant tank move.
 
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