Around the NHL 2023-24 - Offseason

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Lmao, the Devils did better in the Markstrom trade than Sens did in the Ullmark trade. Ullmark is gonna f***ing walk if they're garbage which they mostly likely will be

Yeah this is super disappointing. Ullmark is the better goalie, he is much younger, and the cost was less. Sigh

The Devils have Markstrom for another 2 years at an insane cap hit versus Ullmark potentially walking in 2026. Markstrom is going from a horrid defensive team to a decent one versus the opposite for Ullmark.

 

[OmNomNom]

Imagine we end up letting Allan go and sign ullmark if he walks after next season

All this arguing would be moot lol

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

The Playoffs were great this year. It would of been better if the Devils were in it but we atleast got to see McDavid go beast mode breaking a Gretzky record , Florida win their first Cup in a crazy 7 game series & the Rags get tossed by the eventual Cup winners lol.

Im glad the Cats finally got their 1st Cup and I'm happy Maurice and Zito were rewarded. Zito especially took some heat for bringing in Maurice , trading for Tkachuk and a bunch of other moves. It all paid off and it really kind of sheds light on what Fitzgerald is atleast attempting to do here. I'm not a fan of every move he makes and some have backfired but their job is certainly a hard one. It's a team effort with all the other members of the staff as well but so many things need to go right in order to win a Championship.


On to the Draft Friday + Saturday and free agency a few days after. Back to focusing on the Devils and next season. Hopefully this summer goes by fast and it's a good one for the franchise.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

What is this PTSD man

 

[albator71]

Markstrom is going from a horrid defensive team to a decent one versus the opposite for Ullmark

I'm sorry but last season Ottawa xGA/60 was 2.72 that's better then New Jersey's 3.13 and the fact that Ottawa was able to get rid of that awful Korpisalo contract is a big win for them also.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I'm sorry but last season Ottawa xGA/60 was 2.72 that's better then New Jersey's 3.13 and the fact that Ottawa was able to get rid of that awful Korpisalo contract is a big win for them also.

Don't look at how bad that xGA/60 got once Travis Green took over the bench to ruin your parade I guess. Devils went from respectable under Ruff to a gong show under Green but I don't hate the Sens, I hope it works out for you guys and we meet in the ECF somehow.

 

[glenwo2]

The Playoffs were great this year. It would of been better if the Devils were in it but we atleast got to see McDavid go beast mode breaking a Gretzky record , Florida win their first Cup in a crazy 7 game series & the Rags get tossed by the eventual Cup winners lol.

Im glad the Cats finally got their 1st Cup and I'm happy Maurice and Zito were rewarded. Zito especially took some heat for bringing in Maurice , trading for Tkachuk and a bunch of other moves. It all paid off and it really kind of sheds light on what Fitzgerald is atleast attempting to do here. I'm not a fan of every move he makes and some have backfired but their job is certainly a hard one. It's a team effort with all the other members of the staff as well but so many things need to go right in order to win a Championship.


On to the Draft Friday + Saturday and free agency a few days after. Back to focusing on the Devils and next season. Hopefully this summer goes by fast and it's a good one for the franchise.

Well I feel bad for Rico as this is the closest he's gotten to a Cup since Game 6 of the 2012 final.

Aside from that, yeah. It was crazy.

But most of all and most IMPORTANTLY : The Rags were ELIMINATED from the Playoffs.

Didn't matter if it was by the Cup winners or not.

Just so long as they were ousted and they were.

 

[JK3]

Word has it is that Ray Ferraro is still yapping away.

 

[BurntToast]

Here is a crazy scenario. The Devils can still sign Ullmark or Saros next offseason. Until these dudes resign the Devils could still take a shot at them. Wild.

 

[RANDOMH3RO]

Devils have markstrom for 2 years and Allen for ~6 million in space for the upcoming season. Sens have 6 million in space tied up in Ullmark now and either will lose him to free agency in a year or have to sign him to a pricey deal that lasts 5+ years. I prefer the contract flexibility when dealing with goalies, they’re too hard to predict.

 

[theoptimist]

The Rule was in effect last night. 30+ years.

 

[Triumph]

Don't look at how bad that xGA/60 got once Travis Green took over the bench to ruin your parade I guess. Devils went from respectable under Ruff to a gong show under Green but I don't hate the Sens, I hope it works out for you guys and we meet in the ECF somehow.

While I do not think Green is a good coach, he made it clear he was not changing anything fundamentally about how the Devils played and indeed I don't think he made any large adjustments to the system already in place. If the Devils xGA got worse over his tenure, and it almost certainly did, it was a function of other things.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Yeah I don't like that for Boston.

Also makes me think the team preferred Markstrom over Ullmark.

More of a they preferred Markstrom for 2 years at 4M to Ullmark for 1 at 5M. I doubt Fitz was that interested in 1 year of Ullmark if he wasn’t open to an extension which it doesn’t sound like he is.

 

[MadDevil]

Speaking of goalies, I thought this was funny...

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

lol. don't let the facts get in the way of 100K+ posts.



All i did was post the facts.

How is "#25 is basically a 2nd rounder" a fact? Please explain, in as much detail as possible.

Who can argue logic like that. Trying to pass off their ages as basically being the same? 3.5 years = 1/2 a decade? what math is this?

Did you even read the post I was replying to, or?

THAT poster was who said their ages are half a decade apart, not me.

Reading comprehension.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I have no doubt that they are going to re-sign him, but it's going to be like 5 years, 7 million per with a 3 year full no move and two restrictive ntc years, I'd wager.

It's the kind of contract I didn't want, especially for Ullmark .

I don’t think they’ll resign him unless Ottawa has a great season. He wants to play out the season so chances are that means he wants to test out FA. Unless things go great in Ottawa and/or they offer him a huge contract.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Overall NJ's full season xGA/60 was 2.63 (19th) and OTT's was 2.64 (22nd) so the discussion is moot anyway. But, for what it's worth:

Ruff
xGA/60: 2.56 (15th)
GA/60: 2.71 (27th)

Green
xGA/60: 2.81 (26th)
GA/60: 2/60 (23rd)

 

[tailfins]

It's clear the the Devils preferred Markstrom to Ullmark. But, to me it looks like the Devils paid perhaps 2x what the Sens did.

- The Devils 1st is likely 14 - 22 range. It'd be awesome if it was 25+, but no way you can count on the Devils improving 15 spots in the standings. (Yes - I get that the Devils just had huge fluctuations in standings. I said you can't count on it, not that it can't happen.)

- Bahl is clearly superior to Kastelic - younger, plays a more important position, and has more upside.

- The Devils got retention vs the Sens retaining, but the Sens also dumped $3 million of dead cap for three years on Boston. Korpi was negative value for the Sens. If they end up paying Ullmark $7 million for 5 years, it's only a $4 million increase vs Korpisalo for years 2 and 3 of that deal and they get a huge upgrade. In year 1, Ullmark + Koripi retention is only $2 million more than Korpi.

- Ullmark has health issues, but so does Markstrom. You don't want either playing more than 50 games.

The benefits for the Devils are:
- Markstrom vs Ullmark (I can't tell the difference, but we'll see)
- Lower cost in Years 1 and 2 while Markstrom is on this current deal

The deal is done, so it's a sunk cost. I'd rather Fitz leave the cap space unused vs do something dumb (IMO, Pesce is dumb - unless there's something up with Dougie). But, if Fitz was pushing for retention, hopefully it was because he had a plan in mind.

 

[Mr Bojanglez]

Holy hell i missed this trade.

I just tried to put a 'for arguments sake' equivalent of what we would have had to give Boston to make that trade. We don't have any of the equivalent assets.

I think Boston took on Korpisalo because the guy has 250 games started under his belt. Swayman has only really done the goalie tandem thing so far - not a true starter's role.

Korpisalo has mainly played for crap teams. But he has flashes of being good. His contract was very bad, now its just bad with this retention (and it's $2mm less than what they would pay Ullmark this year).

Hot take. and no i'm not banging the drum on this. Just wouldn't be surprised:

I could see taking on Korpisalo as a benefit for Boston for the next 2 years. Then after that the cap is up so who cares. For hypotheticals.... i wouldn't be surprised if Korpisalo has a better year than Ullmark next year (and at $2m less).

And if I'm Ullmark... I'm maybe pissed about this trade? Maybe not. But he better sign that deal and fast. Next year has the potential to screw up any plans for a long term contract if his contract years goes to shit.

Flipside - Ullmark is put on a pretty poor team and shows the league he's still a Vezina caliber goalie. I guess we'll all find out soon.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

It's clear the the Devils preferred Markstrom to Ullmark. But, to me it looks like the Devils paid perhaps 2x what the Sens did.

- The Devils 1st is likely 14 - 22 range. It'd be awesome if it was 25+, but no way you can count on the Devils improving 15 spots in the standings. (Yes - I get that the Devils just had huge fluctuations in standings. I said you can't count on it, not that it can't happen.)

- Bahl is clearly superior to Kastelic - younger, plays a more important position, and has more upside.

- The Devils got retention vs the Sens retaining, but the Sens also dumped $3 million of dead cap for three years on Boston. Korpi was negative value for the Sens. If they end up paying Ullmark $7 million for 5 years, it's only a $4 million increase vs Korpisalo for years 2 and 3 of that deal and they get a huge upgrade. In year 1, Ullmark + Koripi retention is only $2 million more than Korpi.

- Ullmark has health issues, but so does Markstrom. You don't want either playing more than 50 games.

The benefits for the Devils are:
- Markstrom vs Ullmark (I can't tell the difference, but we'll see)
- Lower cost in Years 1 and 2 while Markstrom is on this current deal

The deal is done, so it's a sunk cost. I'd rather Fitz leave the cap space unused vs do something dumb (IMO, Pesce is dumb - unless there's something up with Dougie). But, if Fitz was pushing for retention, hopefully it was because he had a plan in mind.

we got a player signed 2x as long for ~$2 million/year less for a pick a year in the future. I can't under any circumstances see how we paid "perhaps twice" what Ottawa did.

 

[Triumph]

It's clear the the Devils preferred Markstrom to Ullmark. But, to me it looks like the Devils paid perhaps 2x what the Sens did.

- The Devils 1st is likely 14 - 22 range. It'd be awesome if it was 25+, but no way you can count on the Devils improving 15 spots in the standings. (Yes - I get that the Devils just had huge fluctuations in standings. I said you can't count on it, not that it can't happen.)

I think that this is incorrect. Projections of where the Devils fall next year will come much closer to picking in the 18-25 range. The talent is very clearly here. Beyond the large things that went wrong, some smaller things that cost a few points in the standings also went wrong (awful performance w/ empty net, never going to overtime).

- Bahl is clearly superior to Kastelic - younger, plays a more important position, and has more upside.

No argument there.

- The Devils got retention vs the Sens retaining, but the Sens also dumped $3 million of dead cap for three years on Boston. Korpi was negative value for the Sens. If they end up paying Ullmark $7 million for 5 years, it's only a $4 million increase vs Korpisalo for years 2 and 3 of that deal and they get a huge upgrade. In year 1, Ullmark + Koripi retention is only $2 million more than Korpi.

This is an absolutely gigantic if. While Korpisalo was almost certainly negative value, a player of Korpisalo's age is, effectively, his cap hit. That is to say that Korpisalo, despite being kind of bad historically, has some value as a 1B/backup type at $3M for 4 more years. Goalies never sign this kind of contract in this cap environment. If Korpisalo is average over this time, this could represent a large savings.

Not even going to speculate on Ullmark's next deal but the biggest problem he has is that he has only started 40 or more games 3 times in his career. Paying him $7M to start 45 games means you have to pay someone else decent money to start those other 37.

- Ullmark has health issues, but so does Markstrom. You don't want either playing more than 50 games.

The critical difference is that Markstrom has played more than 50 games and Ullmark has not. Markstrom also played in 43 out of 56 games in Vancouver during the COVID season, when Vancouver had a ridiculous Devils-like schedule because of the COVID outbreak on their team.

The benefits for the Devils are:
- Markstrom vs Ullmark (I can't tell the difference, but we'll see)
- Lower cost in Years 1 and 2 while Markstrom is on this current deal

The deal is done, so it's a sunk cost. I'd rather Fitz leave the cap space unused vs do something dumb (IMO, Pesce is dumb - unless there's something up with Dougie). But, if Fitz was pushing for retention, hopefully it was because he had a plan in mind.

The money used for retention is obviously going somewhere. It's quite possible that Boston was unwilling to do a trade for Ullmark without getting a goalie in return themselves, which would mean that Jake Allen would likely be going to Boston, leaving the Devils with some uncertainties in net - would they try to sign Kakhonen to play 30+ games?

 

[megajake]

Lmao, the Devils did better in the Markstrom trade than Sens did in the Ullmark trade. Ullmark is gonna f***ing walk if they're garbage which they mostly likely will be



The Devils have Markstrom for another 2 years at an insane cap hit versus Ullmark potentially walking in 2026. Markstrom is going from a horrid defensive team to a decent one versus the opposite for Ullmark.

So we get Markstrom at 1 extra year? Who knows how he plays when he's 36... Ullmark has been much better & he's much younger. The fact that the Sens included a big salary dump in this trade is nuts.

 

[tailfins]

The money used for retention is obviously going somewhere. It's quite possible that Boston was unwilling to do a trade for Ullmark without getting a goalie in return themselves, which would mean that Jake Allen would likely be going to Boston, leaving the Devils with some uncertainties in net - would they try to sign Kakhonen to play 30+ games?

Which would you prefer?
- Ullmark ($5 million) + Kahkonen ($3 million) + Bahl ($1 million)
- Markstrom ($4 million) + Allen ($1.9 million) + D (UFA or trade)

Not saying one is correct. But, I don't see there being a huge difference in the goaltending. And, I wonder if Bahl would have been a useful chip in a trade for a D.

In terms of durability: Markstrom is 34, played 48 games this past year, and dealt with at least two lower body injuries. I don't think he's materially more durable than Ullmark at this stage of his career. All the Calgary people have said that he's dealt with injuries and gets worse when he's overplayed.

Maybe the Devils and Bruins don't match up in a trade. But, it's clear that the Sens paid a lot materially less (high cost replacement level back-up, replacement level fourth line center, and low first) than the Devils.

Edit: If we had traded Bahl for Korpi + Kastelic, I would have been upset, but it's realistically a minor move.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Interesting how some choose to frame next year's draft position as an enormous risk that ruins the trade while just brushing aside the fact that Ottawa, a team that famously doesn't retain its best players, just traded for a guy that's UFA next season and pretending that's a reasonable amount of risk.

Like, if you want to say that Markstrom is just a short term band-aid that's a reasonable criticism. But Ullmark is an even shorter term band-aid.

 

[Bleedred]

Did anybody ever think that maybe Fitz did prefer Ullmark, but wasn’t really excited about having to extend Ullmark? His contract is up at the end of the year.

Markstrom is signed for one more year after next. And we don’t have to worry about potentially committing to Ullmark for 5-6 more years at a significantly higher cap hit than what we’re giving Markstrom (what what Calgary is retaining) the next two years?