Around the NHL 2023-24 - Offseason

[Triumph]

Which would you prefer?
- Ullmark ($5 million) + Kahkonen ($3 million) + Bahl ($1 million)
- Markstrom ($4 million) + Allen ($1.9 million) + D (UFA or trade)

Not saying one is correct. But, I don't see there being a huge difference in the goaltending. And, I wonder if Bahl would have been a useful chip in a trade for a D.

In terms of durability: Markstrom is 34, played 48 games this past year, and dealt with at least two lower body injuries. I don't think he's materially more durable than Ullmark at this stage of his career. All the Calgary people have said that he's dealt with injuries and gets worse when he's overplayed.

Maybe the Devils and Bruins don't match up in a trade. But, it's clear that the Sens paid a lot less (high cost replacement level back-up, replacement level fourth line center, and low first) than the Devils.

Sigh. You have made a false argument here because you're not taking into account what else would be in the deal from New Jersey to Boston, and that the Devils have Markstrom for another year. Markstrom played 48 games last season, which is more than Ullmark has played in every single season except one. I am not buying this argument about Ullmark being more durable; there is no evidence of that.

The Devils paid more because Markstrom is available for 2 seasons, and they paid for his salary retention. The hope is that one of the Devils' young goalies can be a starter and they won't need to pay for a guy like Ullmark.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1805619450835599802

 

[AfroThunder396]

Did anybody ever think that maybe Fitz did prefer Ullmark, but wasn’t really excited about having to extend Ullmark? His contract is up at the end of the year.

Markstrom is signed for one more year after next. And we don’t have to worry about potentially committing to Ullmark for 5-6 more years at a significantly higher cap hit than what we’re giving Markstrom (what what Calgary is retaining) the next two years?

I think Fitz still has faith that one of Daws/Schmid will develop into a long-term starter and is aggressively going out of his way to make sure neither sees the NHL for the next year.

 

[Clam Jensen]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1805619450835599802

For all the hand wringing over Palat’s contract, Jack Hughes makes only $2.25 more AAV than this. Wild.

 

[Brodeur]

There was a thread on the main board about how rough losing a SCF Game 7 is and I went looking for this photo of Steve Thomas from 2003.

Then it dawned on me last night that Adam Henrique is Thomas' son-in-law.

 

[Patrik26]

There was a thread on the main board about how rough losing a SCF Game 7 is and I went looking for this photo of Steve Thomas from 2003.

Then it dawned on my last night that Adam Henrique is Thomas' son-in-law.

OUCH!

 

[NJDevs26]

Thomas is one of the few guys I don’t care that he ‘had a long career without winning’, he was a bit of a twat when he was here and probably never wanted to come in the first place anyway

 

[MasterofGrond]

I think Fitz still has faith that one of Daws/Schmid will develop into a long-term starter and is aggressively going out of his way to make sure neither sees the NHL for the next year.

Same, but Malek

 

[Mgd31]

Demelo got 4 years? Pesce probably gets at least 5 since he's a year plus younger.

 

[tailfins]

Sigh. You have made a false argument here because you're not taking into account what else would be in the deal from New Jersey to Boston, and that the Devils have Markstrom for another year. Markstrom played 48 games last season, which is more than Ullmark has played in every single season except one. I am not buying this argument about Ullmark being more durable; there is no evidence of that.

The Devils paid more because Markstrom is available for 2 seasons, and they paid for his salary retention. The hope is that one of the Devils' young goalies can be a starter and they won't need to pay for a guy like Ullmark.

What’s with typing the “sigh”?

I can't know what the Devils - Bruins trade would look like, but a protected 1st plus Allen seems pretty reasonable and what I showed. It saves the Bruins $1.1 on the cap this year vs Korpi and the protected 1st has a reasonable chance of being 18-20 (your projection) if not higher. Both of those seem worth losing the term on Korpi (which, IMO, is negative value) and Kastelic.

And, while the hope is for Schmid / Daws to be a starter in two years, would you want them to be starting 50+ games? Or do you need to pay someone like Korpisalo more than $3 million for that back-up role as you posited? So, if a back-up in two years is signing on for $4 x 4 years, what's the savings really? $3 million / year for years 3 - 6, and you go from Ullmark to a replacement level goalie. There's risk on both sides of that equation.

 

[glenwo2]

What’s with typing the “sigh”?

I can't know what the Devils - Bruins trade would look like, but a protected 1st plus Allen seems pretty reasonable and what I showed. It saves the Bruins $1.1 on the cap this year vs Korpi and the protected 1st has a reasonable chance of being 18-20 (your projection) if not higher. Both of those seem worth losing the term on Korpi (which, IMO, is negative value) and Kastelic.

And, while the hope is for Schmid / Daws to be a starter in two years, would you want them to be starting 50+ games? Or do you need to pay someone like Korpisalo more than $3 million for that back-up role as you posited? So, if a back-up in two years is signing on for $4 x 4 years, what's the savings really? $3 million / year for years 3 - 6, and you go from Ullmark to a replacement level goalie. There's risk on both sides of that equation.

sigh.

(just because.....)

 

[tailfins]

Did anybody ever think that maybe Fitz did prefer Ullmark, but wasn’t really excited about having to extend Ullmark? His contract is up at the end of the year.

Markstrom is signed for one more year after next. And we don’t have to worry about potentially committing to Ullmark for 5-6 more years at a significantly higher cap hit than what we’re giving Markstrom (what what Calgary is retaining) the next two years?

My main issue with all of this is the financial machinations. Paying to retain on Allen and on Markstrom. Why?

Edit:

Ok - I answered my own question:

1. The Devils have $15 million in space.
2. They need to sign six forwards and two D. Mercer is the big known cost. They could use another top 9 LW and a second pair LD. The other 4 forwards are forward spots 11 - 14 and the remaining D is #7 or #8.
3. If the bottom forwards and D average $850k, that's $4.25 million. If Mercer is $4 million - $6 million, you've got around $5 million - $7.5 million left on the mid-paid D and top 9 LW.

So, things are tighter than I imagined at first.

Fine. Fair enough.

Also, I'll move this to the Devils thread going forward.

 

[HBK27]

I think Fitz still has faith that one of Daws/Schmid will develop into a long-term starter and is aggressively going out of his way to make sure neither sees the NHL for the next year.

I'd add Malek and Poulter (and maybe even to a lesser extent Brennan) into that mix. Goalies seem tough to project at a young age that it makes sense to take a number of shots with mid-round picks.

As for Ullmark, prior to the trade Friedman had said that part of the holdup with him was the extension part of a deal. I'm guessing that Boston allowed teams to talk to Ullmark's agent about an extension, but if he was seeking too much term and/or AAV, I could see Fitz going in another direction. Personally, I think it would've been risky to sign Ullmark to an extension before he ever played for the team. I could've seen Fitz trading for him as a rental and then trying to sell him on this team/area and into signing a more team-friendly deal to chase a Cup here. But that would've surely been risky as well.

 

[JimEIV]

Thomas is one of the few guys I don’t care that he ‘had a long career without winning’, he was a bit of a twat when he was here and probably never wanted to come in the first place anyway

I couldn't stand him from day one... mostly because I was pissed he came at the expense of Claude.

 

[Goptor]

The steal of the Ullmark deal was being able to dump Korpisalo.

Devils equivalent trade would be:
Ullmark for 2025 1st, Palat (maybe $1m retain?), and MacDermid.

Ullmark is better and Ottawa got better cap savings with the dump of Korpisalo.
The ONLY reason for preferring Markstrom over Ullmark is if the Devils have the philosophy of paying cheap for goaltending. It isn't a far fetched idea because other teams that rely heavily on analytics seem to also prefer going cheap on goaltending.

 

[Nubmer6]

The steal of the Ullmark deal was being able to dump Korpisalo.

Devils equivalent trade would be:
Ullmark for 2025 1st, Palat (maybe $1m retain?), and MacDermid.

Ullmark is better and Ottawa got better cap savings with the dump of Korpisalo.
The ONLY reason for preferring Markstrom over Ullmark is if the Devils have the philosophy of paying cheap for goaltending. It isn't a far fetched idea because other teams that rely heavily on analytics seem to also prefer going cheap on goaltending.

2 years vs 1 is pretty big too. My suspicion is that Fitz is just buying time our young goalies in the pipeline.

 

[Goptor]

2 years vs 1 is pretty big too. My suspicion is that Fitz is just buying time our young goalies in the pipeline.

Thats why I said going cheap on goaltending. If the Devils were willing to pay, I don't doubt Ullmark would resign here.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Thats why I said going cheap on goaltending. If the Devils were willing to pay, I don't doubt Ullmark would resign here.

I’m not sure that’s fair to say. There’s a difference between going cheap and being smart. I’m sure he would resign here if we were willing to pay a certain amount too. No guarentee whatsoever that amount would be reasonable or smart for us. He may be looking for as big of a payday as he can get.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1805678984870379870

 

[Captain3rdLine]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1805678984870379870

Interesting. Didn’t the red wings love Walman just a year ago? And his contract isn’t that big at all. 2 more years at 3.4M.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

But I was told Grier sucks

Detroit needs to clear books for Raymond and Seider and maybe they go swing for Stamkos as Larkin injury insurance. Also Devils related, have fun with Palat cap dump when the time comes if this is what's happening with a top 4 dman

 

[Nocashstyle]

And they needed to add a second round pick just to get rid of him for morning? Really odd

 

[Bleedred]

I don't know why people are convinced Ullmark won't re-sign in Ottawa. And I think Ottawa are a joke run organization more than most here and don't take them very seriously, but I think there's a good chance he re-signs there. Maybe it's because Chychrun has no interest in staying there by the looks of it?

But even if Ullmark walks next year, they still win because they got rid of Korpisalo. That was the worst UFA deal of last year, by far. I don't think anything else was even close, and I'm sure there were a fair share of bad deals given out, as there are every UFA day every year.

I saw someone say ''They now have one of their retention slots tied up for 4 years on Korpisalo''. Good chance they would have had dead years beyond that on his buyout, because that's exactly where he was headed, barring an LTIRement, which can't be ruled out due to his hip already being an issue, but that's still a roll of the dice.

Korpisalo is completely terrible. He's played pretty nearly like last year's Vitek for about 2/3rd's of his years in the NHL, He's also a historically bad PK goalie (if I'm not mistaken) and his two particularly good NHL years were about 7 years apart. Getting rid of him is a WIN, no matter what.

While Boston has a history of getting more out of their goalies than other teams, as well as reviving guys like Halak late in his career and getting a couple more good years out of Rask at the end that he hadn't had since he was in his 20s, 4 years of Korpisalo at $3 million is still way too rich. 4 years of Korpisalo at half that is still pretty bad.

 

[New Jersey Devils]

Shea Weber?? What a joke lol

 

[Oneiro]

No Zetterberg or Elias. Two guys who were so much more impactful than Shea f***in' Weber.

I know Weber was always going to get in, the narrative has always been so strong from players and media, but he's gotta be one of the most overrated athletes in my lifetime.

And Colin Campbell...right.