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MissouriMook said:
Has anyone checked in on JR? Probably a rough day for him, too.
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Blueston said:
Obviously agent never shoulda told him to dog it all last year. Deserved to get fired.
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Such a weird course of events for the past few years with Vladi.

Fires Agent
Requests Trade
Doesn't get picked by Seattle
Goes friggin off in the regular season
Completely falls off the edge and has a terrible season
Gets traded
Goes to free agency
Fires agent again
 
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Linkens Mastery said:
Such a weird course of events for the past few years with Vladi.

Fires Agent
Requests Trade
Doesn't get picked by Seattle
Goes friggin off in the regular season
Completely falls off the edge and has a terrible season
Gets traded
Goes to free agency
Fires agent again
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At what point do we consider that he maybe isn’t very bright?
 
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Blueston said:
At what point do we consider that he maybe isn’t very bright?
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I think he's very proud.

One might wonder why a proud player would ever put in less than their best effort, but the nature of pride is not logical and other factors can reshape what you're proud about. It's not out of the question that his shoulder problems are at least partly due to his over-bulking. He definitely slowed down as he added all that muscle. We saw Ovechkin do something similar and then he decided to slim down and it has helped him continue to play in his twilight. Obviously I do not know him personally, but Tarasenko seems to have a less flexible mindset. Man's game, man muscle forever. He didn't like how the Blues handled his injury - there's nothing to repair that relationship in his mind, he wants out.

You can get away with having specific standards when you're simply that damn good. But if the pride and standards come first and lead to the inflexibility, everything else becomes an insult and it's extremely easy to get caught being too big for your britches, so to speak.
 
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rumrokh said:
I think he's very proud.

One might wonder why a proud player would ever put in less than their best effort, but the nature of pride is not logical and other factors can reshape what you're proud about. It's not out of the question that his shoulder problems are at least partly due to his over-bulking. He definitely slowed down as he added all that muscle. We saw Ovechkin do something similar and then he decided to slim down and it has helped him continue to play in his twilight. Obviously I do not know him personally, but Tarasenko seems to have a less flexible mindset. Man's game, man muscle forever. He didn't like how the Blues handled his injury - there's nothing to repair that relationship in his mind, he wants out.

You can get away with having specific standards when you're simply that damn good. But if the pride and standards come first and lead to the inflexibility, everything else becomes an insult and it's extremely easy to get caught being too big for your britches, so to speak.
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It's not like Vladi was the only one on our team sucking last year. Everyone including ROR who we know damn well gives it everything every shift was sucking. It's not like Tarasenko left us and started tearing it up with the Rangers, we wasn't that great there either.
 
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Blueston said:
At what point do we consider that he maybe isn’t very bright?
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I think he simply trusted the wrong professional. These guys pay their agents a lot of money to read the marketplace, give advice, and negotiate contracts. His agent failed to do that well for Tarasenko. But I don't think it was stupid to trust the guy he hired.

The agent he just fired is the same one who got his good friend Panarin $80M+ from the Rangers and Bobrovsky (who I believe he trains with) $70M from Florida. I'd bet money that they talked up Theofanous as a miracle worker who can get his clients tons of money from desirable locations. And I'd bet money that Theofanous sold himself to Tarasenko as exactly that guy in 2021.

The agent's resume for Russian stars is very impressive, so I can't blame Tarasenko for expecting things to have gone better over the last 2 years. Especially since he had a fantastic 2021/22 season and was one of the premier rental targets just a few months ago. Unfortunately, his agent badly bungled the trade request and likely left an uneasy feeling in the minds of GMs.
 
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Linkens Mastery said:
Such a weird course of events for the past few years with Vladi.

Fires Agent
Requests Trade
Doesn't get picked by Seattle
Goes friggin off in the regular season
Completely falls off the edge and has a terrible season
Gets traded
Goes to free agency
Fires agent again
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Reading this in Dr. Malcolm's voice.
 
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mk80 said:
Isn't this like year 6 or 7 of the Yzer Plan too?
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Hired April 19, 2019 - so not exactly. Yzerman led them through 5 drafts and is starting his 5th season in Detroit. These are the prospects that have played in the NHL since he came in:

2019 - Seider 6oa (164gp), Soderblom 159oa (21gp)
2020 - Raymond 4oa (156gp)
2021 - Edvinsson 6oa (9gp), Sebastian Cossa blue chip G prospect.
2022 - Kasper 8oa (1gp)
2023 - total failure, no NHL games played.

6 2nd round selections made in 2019 (Tuomisto, Mastrosimone, Johansson) and 2020 (Wallinder, Niederbach, Hanas). None have really shown tremendous potential in the north American pros - Wallinder, Johansson and Hanas are developing well (but not dominating - per the Yzerman reputation). They're probably another 2 seasons away from being in contention for NHL roles in Detroit. The other 3 are looking like bottom 6 players after 3 years of development.

Signing guys like Copp, Compher, Walman, Chiarot and Holl to those contracts isn't great, but aside from Larkin and Kasper (freshly signed ELC), those are the only guys under contract for the 2025-26 season. Detroit has to ice a team that can look quasi competitive. They have 13 guys signed through 2024-25 (and 7 under contract beyond that). The next offseason will be where Yzerman really shows his stuff - with 37.5m in salary and half a team to fill.
 
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Brockon said:
Hired April 19, 2019 - so not exactly. Yzerman led them through 5 drafts and is starting his 5th season in Detroit. These are the prospects that have played in the NHL since he came in:

2019 - Seider 6oa (164gp), Soderblom 159oa (21gp)
2020 - Raymond 4oa (156gp)
2021 - Edvinsson 6oa (9gp), Sebastian Cossa blue chip G prospect.
2022 - Kasper 8oa (1gp)
2023 - total failure, no NHL games played.

6 2nd round selections made in 2019 (Tuomisto, Mastrosimone, Johansson) and 2020 (Wallinder, Niederbach, Hanas). None have really shown tremendous potential in the north American pros - Wallinder, Johansson and Hanas are developing well (but not dominating - per the Yzerman reputation). They're probably another 2 seasons away from being in contention for NHL roles in Detroit. The other 3 are looking like bottom 6 players after 3 years of development.

Signing guys like Copp, Compher, Walman, Chiarot and Holl to those contracts isn't great, but aside from Larkin and Kasper (freshly signed ELC), those are the only guys under contract for the 2025-26 season. Detroit has to ice a team that can look quasi competitive. They have 13 guys signed through 2024-25 (and 7 under contract beyond that). The next offseason will be where Yzerman really shows his stuff - with 37.5m in salary and half a team to fill.
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Jury is still out on most of these. Seider is great and Raymond looks like good pick. I’m not 100% on edvinsson. Cossa was a reach and is still in echl. I really don’t get the yzerhype.
 
Blueston said:
Jury is still out on most of these. Seider is great and Raymond looks like good pick. I’m not 100% on edvinsson. Cossa was a reach and is still in echl. I really don’t get the yzerhype.
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I really like the potential of Seider, Edvinsson, and ASP together. I think they'll all be good together and individually.
 
Blueston said:
Jury is still out on most of these. Seider is great and Raymond looks like good pick. I’m not 100% on edvinsson. Cossa was a reach and is still in echl. I really don’t get the yzerhype.
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Still less obnoxious than Mr "we can and we will!" Dubas and his 3 forwards tying up 33.5m in cap...

Yzerman built Tampa up with a series of slow boil moves that weren't as apparent for a handful of years - but he had 2 foundational cornerstones in Stamkos and Hedman. Palat, Kucherov, Point all show up as non 1st rounders in their D+4 seasons as impactful NHLers.

Detroit doesn't have 2 top 2 picks to build around. And they've managed to avoid moving up in the draft in all 5 drafts Yzerman has been around for - not that the top Detroit picks have been bad, but there's so much more to build up. And the draft record is off, I agree - there have been no non-first round impact players in their D+4 seasons from the 2019 draft. The 2020s aren't likely to be that this season either.

But, as I mentioned previously - Detroit has 13 players signed beyond this season and 37.5m in cap to reshape this roster. Hanas is the only non first rounder I expect to make the jump to the NHL this year apart from the late round pick Elmer Soderblom. Detroit is likely to a bubble team again this year and very interesting to follow next summer.
 
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Davimir Tarablad said:
He's made 2 more threads talking about Debrincat since that poll.
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The part that really gets me about that is how long he stuck around trying to assert Debrincat being the better player on our board.

If you feel that you have a great proposal, fire away, by all means. But, fielding it on another team's board is seldomly going to go over well... Especially when you're trying to compare dissimilar players purely from their scoresheet stats.

Debrincat is electric when he's on. Unquestionably so. But he needs another highly skilled player to work with to produce well.

Buch does it all and does the work necessary to elevate his linemates. He doesn't need another high caliber player to pull that off - he's more effective with better linemates, sure. But he still offers something without top 6 calibre linemates to set him up.

That's my observation, ignoring the numbers - you're unlikely to sway said opinion with effective arguments... And he didn't provide persuasive arguments to back himself up.
 
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PJJJPanesar said:
Where's that one sens fan who made that poll. I just checked and it's still like 61-39 in favor of Buch with a lot of votes :laugh:
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I have no problem with someone shooting a trade proposal onto our board, even when it is tilted way in their team's favor. And frankly, I understand the belief of DeBrincat as a truly elite player.

DeBrincat is a 26 year old two-time 40 goal scorer in this league. He would have been a three-time 40 goal scorer if not for COVID shortening 2020/21 to 56 games (his 32 goals in 52 games was a 50 goal pace). I fully understand looking at that resume and believing that your team is giving away the best player in any trade that isn't for a superstar. I don't value him as a truly elite guy and his performance in Ottawa certainly supports the belief that Patrick Kane turned him from a 30 goal guy to a 40 goal guy. But I get the opposing viewpoint.

What got me though was how confidently he told us to change our tune if the poll didn't go in Buchy's favor only to immediately start making excuses for why Buch was picked by a 2-to-1 margin over DeBrincat in his poll.
 
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