Around the NHL 2022-2023 *Mod warning in effect pg145

[mk80]

Mikkola to the Panthers

 

[Itsnotatrap]

Apparently Elon tweeted that verified accounts are limited to reading 6000 posts/day, unverified 600 posts/day, and new accounts 300 posts/day. I would link the tweet but my rate limit is exceeded

He said it's a "temporary" restriction but with him trying to find ways to get more people to pay, I don't believe that.

Edit: This article has his tweet embedded in it Elon Musk announces new daily Twitter limitations as thousands of users report problems accessing site

Wow. Maybe this was a massive vanity project, designed to nuke the thing and save us from ourselves.

 

[Celtic Note]

Mikkola to the Panthers

No thank you to that contract.

 

[Brian39]

Hayes only got a 6 this year @ 31. What's he going to bring at 33? What we can get out of Hayes is negligible.

I'm not worried about getting an asset for him. I'm worried about being able to move him to open up top 9 spots for young guys who earn them. Retaining half of Hayes for year 3 is more palatable than retaining for years 3 and 4 on ROR and I fully expect that ROR will have more robust trade protection.

Hayes will be movable as early as 2024. ROR would not have signed the contract he just got with us without a full NTC for at least the first 2 years. ROR would block a 3C spot for at least 2 years and probably 3. Hayes does not.

Thomas, Kyrou, and Schenn are all very, very likely to be here in 2025/26. I want Buch extended for that year and beyond. That's already 4 slots not up for grabs.

All of Neighbours, Bolduc, Snuggy, Dean, and Dvorsky should be competing for top 9 spots by then. Locking in ROR means that you already don't have a spot for 1 of them (even assuming Saad is moved). If you identify a single NHL player you like between now and then, you suddenly dont have development spots for two of your prospects that year.

I'm just not interested in adding a 35 year old declining roadblock to these guys for 2025/26. ROR can't mentor a guy when he has taken his potential roster spot and pushed him off our NHL roster. And given our development trajectory and the money already on the books for 2025/26, I'm not interested in locking ourselves into a $4.5M elite 4C for 2025/26 and 2026/27.

We also don't know if Bolduc or Dean will earn big long term deals in 3 years. I am higher than Bolduc than most, but I am not sure he will be worth an 7-8 year deal by then.

I'm far from sure of it either. But if either of them (or Snuggy) does earn one, I'd like to have the ability to do it. I don't want to remove $4.5M of my flexibility to do that in the summer of 2023.

I value flexibility in 2025 way more than I value ROR's potential contribution before then or his potential mentorship as an overpaid 4th liner after that.

 

[TheOrganist]

This is truly the Free Agent Scrub class. Lot of nobody’s and has-beens signing nothing deals. I get the flat cap is playing a role but geez.

 

[BlueDream]

Dallas gets Duchene. Pretty good addition for them.

 

[Brian39]

I think it would be worth the risk to keep ROR around after we just drafted Dvorsky and didn't we get another center? At any rate ROR helped Thomas a ton and I cna only imagine he would do the same with Dvorsky. Plus I really liked the dude.

How would he help him by taking his roster spot/role? How would Dean and Dvorsky both fit on this team in 2025/26 with all of Thomas, Schenn, and ROR in the top 9? You can slide Schenn to wing to give one of them a center job, but are we just giving up on one of them playing center? Committing to making Dean expendable so that ROR can mentor Dvorsky?

We have a 20 year old 1st round center prospect, we just drafted a center prospect at #10 overall, and we have a 22 year old 2nd round center prospect who made big strides last year. I don't think locking into a middle 6 center who can't be moved for 2 (and likely 3) years is good for their development when he tangibly blocks their paths to the NHL lineup.

 

[simon IC]

Shattenkirk to Boston. OEL to the Panthers. It looks like potential destinations for Krug are getting smaller.

 

[Majorityof1]

How would he help him by taking his roster spot/role? How would Dean and Dvorsky both fit on this team in 2025/26 with all of Thomas, Schenn, and ROR in the top 9? You can slide Schenn to wing to give one of them a center job, but are we just giving up on one of them playing center? Committing to making Dean expendable so that ROR can mentor Dvorsky?

We don't know what we have in Dean yet. It's really reaching to worry about blocking a guy who has played 0 games against men. If Dean and Dvorsky cause an issue, we switch RoR to wing, or scratch him. Its easier to move to a C to wing than a W to C. I'd rather have too many Cs than not enough.

 

[tfriede2]

Shattenkirk to Boston. OEL to the Panthers. It looks like potential destinations for Krug are getting smaller.

Need to watch the Islanders

 

[Xerloris]

How would he help him by taking his roster spot/role? How would Dean and Dvorsky both fit on this team in 2025/26 with all of Thomas, Schenn, and ROR in the top 9? You can slide Schenn to wing to give one of them a center job, but are we just giving up on one of them playing center? Committing to making Dean expendable so that ROR can mentor Dvorsky?

We have a 20 year old 1st round center prospect, we just drafted a center prospect at #10 overall, and we have a 22 year old 2nd round center prospect who made big strides last year. I don't think locking into a middle 6 center who can't be moved for 2 (and likely 3) years is good for their development when he tangibly blocks their paths to the NHL lineup.

Well we have Hayes to take his spot instead of ROR. SO if we're stealing his roster spot I would prefer ROR to be the one doing it.

 

[Brian39]

We don't know what we have in Dean yet. It's really reaching to worry about blocking a guy who has played 0 games against men. If Dean and Dvorsky cause an issue, we switch RoR to wing, or scratch him. Its easier to move to a C to wing than a W to C. I'd rather have too many Cs than not enough.

You're the one advocating for paying a 35 and then 36 year old $4.5M a year based on how he helps prospects develop as they join the NHL. Worrying about how we are going to get them into the NHL is pretty far from a reach in thr context of that conversation.

"We can move him to wing or scratch him" for half of this contract is not a great argument in support of why we should want to give him $4.5M a year.

 

[Brian39]

Shattenkirk to Boston. OEL to the Panthers. It looks like potential destinations for Krug are getting smaller.

I don't think either was a great fit for Krug due to the cap concerns.

But I like seeing these teams take a bite into the pool of 1 dimensional offensive D. These signings represent 2 fewer cheap solutions for teams like the Isles and Wings to add a PP QB. We also need to hope these teams miss out on the expensive scoring wingers on the market.

 

[Mike Liut]

I like Mac Mac more than Walker.

This rules out Sunny.

 

[Brian39]

Well we have Hayes to take his spot instead of ROR. SO if we're stealing his roster spot I would prefer ROR to be the one doing it.

But again, Hayes is a contract that can be moved as early as 2024. He has a 12 team no trade list, is younger, is cheaper and has a year less term. That's exactly the type of contract you can give away where ROR's new deal is not.

The Hayes contract gives us flexibility. ROR's would not. We are not locked in to Hayes blocking a roster spot the way we would be with ROR. That's my entire point.

 

[Majorityof1]

You're the one advocating for paying a 35 and then 36 year old $4.5M a year based on how he helps prospects develop as they join the NHL. Worrying about how we are going to get them into the NHL is pretty far from a reach in thr context of that conversation.

"We can move him to wing or scratch him" for half of this contract is not a great argument in support of why we should want to give him $4.5M a year.

It wouldn't be for half his contract. It would be for the final year. I am only arguing he would be a good mentor as a bonus to what he brings to the team. He is a much better hockey player than Hayes. I'd rather have ROR at 32 to Hayes at 31, And so on and so forth for all 3 years we'd have Hayes. But if Dean AND Dvorsky are both pushing for top 9 C time, then yes, in that extremely beneficial situation, we could move him to wing. But I don't see an issue with:

Buchnevich - Thomas - Kyrou
Bolduc - Dvorsky (ELC) - Snuggerud (probably ELC)
Neighbours - RoR - Schenn
Stenberg(ELC) - Dean - XXXXX

That's 3 ELCs plus whoever the other 4th line guy is would be cheap. They all fit and we could overpay for ROR to be a 3rd line C at that point. Expecially with the raised cap. If $3.5M is decent deal for a 3C now, then $4.5 won't be too much in 3 years when the cap has gone up a good bit. Even if Ror is only a veteran 4th liner who can play up in a pinch, $4.5M isn't a huge overpay. We paid Sunny $2.75M in 2019 with a much lower cap.

 

[Ranksu]

More time we have Krug we will draft better

 

[Mike Liut]

More time we have Krug we will draft better

I’m actually ok with one more top 7-10 pick. Then we start making our move.

 

[TheDizee]

I like Mac Mac more than Walker.

This rules out Sunny.

So dumb, army is a fool

 

[Brian39]

It wouldn't be for half his contract. It would be for the final year.

2025/26 is year 3 of a 4 year deal.

If you're not willing to do it for the final 2 years of his deal then you are saying that Dvorsky doesn't have a chance at our 3C spot until his D+4 season.

Buchnevich - Thomas - Kyrou
Bolduc - Dvorsky (ELC) - Snuggerud (probably ELC)
Neighbours - RoR - Schenn
Stenberg(ELC) - Dean - XXXXXX

I see a large issue with Dean still being forced to 4C duty 3+ years from now because a declining 35 year old is blocking him.

That's 3 ELCs plus whoever the other 4th line guy is would be cheap. They all fit and we could overpay for ROR to be a 3rd line C at that point. Expecially with the raised cap. If $3.5M is decent deal for a 3C now, then $4.5 won't be too much in 3 years when the cap has gone up a good bit. Even if Ror is only a veteran 4th liner who can play up in a pinch, $4.5M isn't a huge overpay. We paid Sunny $2.75M in 2019 with a much lower cap.

A $4.5M 4C will be a large overpay with a $91M cap in 2025/26 and up to a $95M cap in 2025/27. Not team killing, but a large overpay. Way too big of an overpay to point to it as an asset.

 

[Ranksu]

Ror to preds

 

[Mike Liut]

Ror to preds

We landed on the moon. Haha, just kidding.

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

No thank you to that contract.

He's paying them, right?

 

[Itsnotatrap]

Ror to preds

Thank you Ranksu!

 

[Majorityof1]

2025/26 is year 3 of a 4 year deal.

If you're not willing to do it for the final 2 years of his deal then you are saying that Dvorsky doesn't have a chance at our 3C spot until his D+4 season.

Next year is D+1 for Dvorsky and he will be in SHL. Then is D+2. Let's say he makes massive strides. I say, Welcome to StLouis, here is the 3rd line C spot.

Buchnevich - Thomas - Kyrou
Saad - RoR - Schenn
Neighbours - Dvorsky - Bolduc/Snuggerud

As for Dean. If he is ready for 3C in year 3, then move ROR to 4C and have Dvorsky at 2C and Dean at 3C. Having internal competition is fine. If Dean can't beat out this 35 year odl who you think will fall off a cliff, then what are we worried about?

With ROR we have 2 Cs and 2 C prospects over the next 4 years. Every C but Thomas is capable of playing up and down the lineup on an offensive or defensive or puck possession line. Make them fight for more ice time. Let us roll 4 line with 4 good Cs. I'll pay an extra couple mill for that flexibility, and to have that backup in case our prospects don't blossom as fast as you think they will.