Around the NHL 2022-2023 *Mod warning in effect pg145

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TK 421

Barbashev eats babies pass it on
Sep 12, 2007
6,584
6,404
I don't want fighting to ever leave the game completely, but I'm pretty satisfied with the direction the league has gone with it. I don't want staged fights and I don't want guys who are only in the lineup to fight. But I absolutely believe that fights between two guys who can actually play at the NHL level have a place in the game.

I think we've reached (or maybe already have reached) a point in the sport where the existence of hitting is a far bigger driver of head trauma than fighting.

Yeah I agree, the era of dedicated face punchers is largely over and that was my issue. Obviously injuries will happen during play from big hits and that's unavoidable but where we can avoid it we should.
 

CaliforniaBlues310

Registered User
Apr 9, 2013
4,682
3,666
San Pedro, CA.
I don't want fighting to ever leave the game completely, but I'm pretty satisfied with the direction the league has gone with it. I don't want staged fights and I don't want guys who are only in the lineup to fight. But I absolutely believe that fights between two guys who can actually play at the NHL level have a place in the game.

I think we've reached (or maybe already have reached) a point in the sport where the existence of hitting is a far bigger driver of head trauma than fighting.

This is basically how I feel as well. I love a good fight, but I want it to happen for a legitimately good reason.

I also am of the belief that if they fully banned fighting, nothing good would come from it, and we’d see more injuries due to players taking more liberties.
 

Xerloris

reckless optimism
Jun 9, 2015
7,500
8,122
St.Louis
I don't want fighting to ever leave the game completely, but I'm pretty satisfied with the direction the league has gone with it. I don't want staged fights and I don't want guys who are only in the lineup to fight. But I absolutely believe that fights between two guys who can actually play at the NHL level have a place in the game.

I think we've reached (or maybe already have reached) a point in the sport where the existence of hitting is a far bigger driver of head trauma than fighting.

I'm on the opposite side here. The goons of the 80's and 90's were just as popular and loved as the superstars. Not one single person sat on their ass while Twister was skull f***ing someone.
Arber Xhekaj (Albanian: Arbër Xhekaj,[1] pronounced /dʒækaɪ/, Jack-EYE,[2] ...

Not sure if you're aware but that didn't really help.
 
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TheDizee

Trade Jordan Kyrou ASAP | ALWAYS RIGHT
Apr 5, 2014
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refalanche get away with too many men, where have i seen this before
 

PJJJP

Registered User
Dec 2, 2021
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Uhhh did the kraken just out shoot the avs by a 2:1 ratio? I don’t know if it’s because the avs looked bad or the kraken are a lot better than I’m giving them credit for
 

TheDizee

Trade Jordan Kyrou ASAP | ALWAYS RIGHT
Apr 5, 2014
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Avs should have ran Martin Jones and played with 6 men, heard that's how you win
 

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but i thought sky was falling when we needed overtime to beat kraken? you mean we aren't the only team that doesn't get up fro the bottom feeders?
 

AjaxManifesto

Pro sports is becoming predictable and boring
Mar 9, 2016
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LMAO!


Penis-necklace-NHL-reporter-Shannon-Hogan-.jpg
 

ChillWill1

Registered User
Nov 28, 2017
410
708
The Avs obviously aren’t the same team from last year. Their back to being a one line team and it’s looking like the lost of Darcy is hurting them at the moment. I don’t think Francouz will cut it and I know they still have the best group of dmen in the league. But honestly that great D and one line won’t be enough unless they get a legit 2C and Francouz ramps it up.
 
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finnishflash13

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Oct 28, 2020
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The Avs obviously aren’t the same team from last year. Their back to being a one line team and it’s looking like the lost of Darcy is hurting them at the moment. I don’t think Francouz will cut it and I know they still have the best group of dmen in the league. But honestly that great D and one line won’t be enough unless they get a legit 2C and Francouz ramps it up.
they started similarly last year going something like 4-5-1 through the first week of november. landeskog is out for some time but agreed that hopefully they miss kadri and burkavosky more than they anticipated.
 

PJJJP

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Dec 2, 2021
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they started similarly last year going something like 4-5-1 through the first week of november. landeskog is out for some time but agreed that hopefully they miss kadri and burkavosky more than they anticipated.
I think they will miss Kadri the most. He was an 87 point 2C for them and they don't have an in house replacement for that. Plus that goaltending does not inspire confidence. Last years Avs could get away with subpar goaltending in the playoffs but this years team is not as deep as last years team.
 

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The Avs obviously aren’t the same team from last year. Their back to being a one line team and it’s looking like the lost of Darcy is hurting them at the moment. I don’t think Francouz will cut it and I know they still have the best group of dmen in the league. But honestly that great D and one line won’t be enough unless they get a legit 2C and Francouz ramps it up.
I don’t know why they think Georgiev is legit #1 goalie. I get wanting to save money on goalie, but
 
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ChicagoBlues

Terraformers
Oct 24, 2006
15,138
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Yikes!

I think the best part is that the necklace was a gift from her mother.

You’d think someone would’ve noticed and said something before they went to air but I guess not!
It's cool that she laughed about it. Sorta like when compromising photos of a famous person are leaked and their response is "meh....whatever...a naked person...big deal"

And then everyone forgets about it.
 

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Since 2000, 5 times a team has won Cup within 5 years after losing in the SCF. Only twice during that same period has a team won a Cup within 5 years of having 1st overall pick. So it certainly does seem that making long playoff run and falling short is better path towards winning a Cup than being crappy and getting top pick is.
 

TheDizee

Trade Jordan Kyrou ASAP | ALWAYS RIGHT
Apr 5, 2014
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the only thing better than watching the leafs choke is watching the canucks choke. and they wasted no time this season to get that started.
 

oPlaiD

Registered User
Dec 3, 2007
859
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Since 2000, 5 times a team has won Cup within 5 years after losing in the SCF. Only twice during that same period has a team won a Cup within 5 years of having 1st overall pick. So it certainly does seem that making long playoff run and falling short is better path towards winning a Cup than being crappy and getting top pick is.
I think the arbitrary window you looked at is a little flawed. Teams who draft #1 overall or even in the top 5 are there for a reason, and usually many reasons, so even getting a franchise talent it usually takes years to really turn it around.

Since the lockout the only teams to win without a player on the roster that the winner drafted in the top 4 overall are the 2007 Ducks, who won on the back of signing Niedermeyer and Pronger, two top 5 picks, in free agency (and Selanne picked at #10), and the 2008 Red Wings, whose key contributors Lidstrom, Zetterbergy, and Datsyuk were all drafted in later rounds. The Bruins in 2011 kind of count since Seguin wasn't a key contributor in his first year and I believe they acquired that pick through trade.

Even if you take it back to another arbitrary endpoint, 2000, when the lack of the cap fueled superteams like the Avalanche and Red Wings, many of those teams were still captained by a top 4 pick the team drafted at some point.

2000 - Devils - Niedermeyer 3rd overall '91
2001 - Avalanche -
2002 - Red Wings - Yzerman 4th overall '83
2003 - Devils again
2004 - Lightning - Lecavalier 1st overall '98
Lockout and Salary Cap
2006 - Canes - Staal 2nd overall '03
2007 - Ducks - Selanne 10th overall '88 (Pronger and both Nieds were top 5 picks for other teams)
2008 - Red Wings (Lidstrom, Zetterberg, and Datsyuk were all out of the first round)
2009 - Penguins - Crosby 1st overall '05, Malkin 2nd overall '04, Fleury 1st overall '03 (4/5/6 years after their picks)
2010 - Hawks - Kane 1st overall '07, Toews 3rd overall '06 (4/5 years after their picks)
2011 - Bruins - Seguin 2nd overall '10
2012 - Kings - Doughty 2nd overall '08, Kopitar 11th overall '05
2013 - Hawks again
2014 - Kings again
2015 - Hawks again
2016 - Penguins again (10+ years after drafting Crosby and Malkin, but they were still a Cup winning core)
2017 - Penguins again
2018 - Capitals - Ovechkin 1st overall '04, Backstrom 4th overall '06
2019 - Blues - Pietrangelo 4th overall '08 (and 1st overall in '06... but lets not talk about that)
2020 - Lightning, Stamkos 1st overall '08, Hedman 2nd overall '09 (Took over 10 years for them to add enough to their top 2 picks to win)
2021 - Lightning again
2022 - Avalanche - MacKinnon 1st overall '13, Rantanen 10th overall '15, Makar 4th overall '17 (9 years after drafting MacKinnon and they had to add another top 4 talent and wait 5 more years to win)

It's incredibly hard to build a winner without at least some bit of talent gained by those top 5 picks. In the salary cap era, simply having these types of talent to build a team around, even if they have an expensive cap hit, is pretty clearly an advantage in roster construction. And almost all of these guys are staying with their original teams, both on a contract buying out some combination of RFA and UFA years and then even after they'd normally hit UFA.

It seems like many of these teams are strongest in that window 5/6/7 years after drafting that key player, likely when they are on their second deal costing significant cap but not true free agent dollars, and aged enough to be in their prime and to have had a couple years to fill out a real team around them.

Since 2000, 5 times a team has won Cup within 5 years after losing in the SCF. Only twice during that same period has a team won a Cup within 5 years of having 1st overall pick. So it certainly does seem that making long playoff run and falling short is better path towards winning a Cup than being crappy and getting top pick is.
I do think there is some truth to your point overall, though. Almost every team that won on this list did so on the back of a top 4 pick they drafted. But obviously most of the teams that are drafting in the top 4 have not won the Cup. Drafting in that spot might be the only real way to win in the current NHL now that you can't buy Pronger and Niedermeyer in free agency or hit on a bunch of Europeans and Russians other team's didn't properly scout with later picks. But even then most of the teams picking at the top aren't escaping the bottom of the barrel if their pick disappoints and aren't winning the Cup even if they got a superstar.

Which is why I'm at where I'm at with my Blues fandom. I feel like it's going to be really tough for us to win another Cup without hitting the bottom at some point, but I can't bring myself to actually want us to do that and really rebuild. I think actually winning the Cup has allowed me to be a bit more zen about the situation where I can better enjoy the Blues special, teams that are pretty darn good but not good enough.
 

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I think the arbitrary window you looked at is a little flawed. Teams who draft #1 overall or even in the top 5 are there for a reason, and usually many reasons, so even getting a franchise talent it usually takes years to really turn it around.

Since the lockout the only teams to win without a player on the roster that the winner drafted in the top 4 overall are the 2007 Ducks, who won on the back of signing Niedermeyer and Pronger, two top 5 picks, in free agency (and Selanne picked at #10), and the 2008 Red Wings, whose key contributors Lidstrom, Zetterbergy, and Datsyuk were all drafted in later rounds. The Bruins in 2011 kind of count since Seguin wasn't a key contributor in his first year and I believe they acquired that pick through trade.

Even if you take it back to another arbitrary endpoint, 2000, when the lack of the cap fueled superteams like the Avalanche and Red Wings, many of those teams were still captained by a top 4 pick the team drafted at some point.

2000 - Devils - Niedermeyer 3rd overall '91
2001 - Avalanche -
2002 - Red Wings - Yzerman 4th overall '83
2003 - Devils again
2004 - Lightning - Lecavalier 1st overall '98
Lockout and Salary Cap
2006 - Canes - Staal 2nd overall '03
2007 - Ducks - Selanne 10th overall '88 (Pronger and both Nieds were top 5 picks for other teams)
2008 - Red Wings (Lidstrom, Zetterberg, and Datsyuk were all out of the first round)
2009 - Penguins - Crosby 1st overall '05, Malkin 2nd overall '04, Fleury 1st overall '03 (4/5/6 years after their picks)
2010 - Hawks - Kane 1st overall '07, Toews 3rd overall '06 (4/5 years after their picks)
2011 - Bruins - Seguin 2nd overall '10
2012 - Kings - Doughty 2nd overall '08, Kopitar 11th overall '05
2013 - Hawks again
2014 - Kings again
2015 - Hawks again
2016 - Penguins again (10+ years after drafting Crosby and Malkin, but they were still a Cup winning core)
2017 - Penguins again
2018 - Capitals - Ovechkin 1st overall '04, Backstrom 4th overall '06
2019 - Blues - Pietrangelo 4th overall '08 (and 1st overall in '06... but lets not talk about that)
2020 - Lightning, Stamkos 1st overall '08, Hedman 2nd overall '09 (Took over 10 years for them to add enough to their top 2 picks to win)
2021 - Lightning again
2022 - Avalanche - MacKinnon 1st overall '13, Rantanen 10th overall '15, Makar 4th overall '17 (9 years after drafting MacKinnon and they had to add another top 4 talent and wait 5 more years to win)

It's incredibly hard to build a winner without at least some bit of talent gained by those top 5 picks. In the salary cap era, simply having these types of talent to build a team around, even if they have an expensive cap hit, is pretty clearly an advantage in roster construction. And almost all of these guys are staying with their original teams, both on a contract buying out some combination of RFA and UFA years and then even after they'd normally hit UFA.

It seems like many of these teams are strongest in that window 5/6/7 years after drafting that key player, likely when they are on their second deal costing significant cap but not true free agent dollars, and aged enough to be in their prime and to have had a couple years to fill out a real team around them.


I do think there is some truth to your point overall, though. Almost every team that won on this list did so on the back of a top 4 pick they drafted. But obviously most of the teams that are drafting in the top 4 have not won the Cup. Drafting in that spot might be the only real way to win in the current NHL now that you can't buy Pronger and Niedermeyer in free agency or hit on a bunch of Europeans and Russians other team's didn't properly scout with later picks. But even then most of the teams picking at the top aren't escaping the bottom of the barrel if their pick disappoints and aren't winning the Cup even if they got a superstar.

Which is why I'm at where I'm at with my Blues fandom. I feel like it's going to be really tough for us to win another Cup without hitting the bottom at some point, but I can't bring myself to actually want us to do that and really rebuild. I think actually winning the Cup has allowed me to be a bit more zen about the situation where I can better enjoy the Blues special, teams that are pretty darn good but not good enough.
No doubt you need great players to win. But you see teams end up repeatedly at top of draft and I think it’s because they fail to create a winning culture. Teams that can establish it are better served I think trying to add pieces as they can rather than tanking.
 
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542365

2018-19 Cup Champs!
Mar 22, 2012
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Terrible attendance for the Hawks game today. Good thing Kroenke doesn’t own them or they’d be playing in Quebec next year.
 

Brockon

Cautiously optimistic realist when caffeinated.
Aug 20, 2017
2,383
1,908
Northern Canada
Canucks got booed off ice last night.
I mean, do you blame the fans? The Canucks are the last team without a win this season. They can't seem to play much beyond the first 2 periods of any game (outscored 15-1 in the 3rd).

They've given up 4 separate 2 goal leads in their 6 games played, their PP looks like ass, Miller isn't producing to expectations after signing his 7 year, 8 AAV extension that kicks in next year (6gp 2-1-3) and the Boudreau effect seems to have disappeared over the summer...

Oh, and their starter is 0-4-1 with a 0.858 SV% and 4.24 GAA.

Basically anyone not named Pettersson, Hughes or Horvat are producing below expectations...
 

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I mean, do you blame the fans? The Canucks are the last team without a win this season. They can't seem to play much beyond the first 2 periods of any game (outscored 15-1 in the 3rd).

They've given up 4 separate 2 goal leads in their 6 games played, their PP looks like ass, Miller isn't producing to expectations after signing his 7 year, 8 AAV extension that kicks in next year (6gp 2-1-3) and the Boudreau effect seems to have disappeared over the summer...

Oh, and their starter is 0-4-1 with a 0.858 SV% and 4.24 GAA.

Basically anyone not named Pettersson, Hughes or Horvat are producing below expectations...
Yeah, it’s not the fans at fault.
 

TheDizee

Trade Jordan Kyrou ASAP | ALWAYS RIGHT
Apr 5, 2014
20,138
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I mean, do you blame the fans? The Canucks are the last team without a win this season. They can't seem to play much beyond the first 2 periods of any game (outscored 15-1 in the 3rd).

They've given up 4 separate 2 goal leads in their 6 games played, their PP looks like ass, Miller isn't producing to expectations after signing his 7 year, 8 AAV extension that kicks in next year (6gp 2-1-3) and the Boudreau effect seems to have disappeared over the summer...

Oh, and their starter is 0-4-1 with a 0.858 SV% and 4.24 GAA.

Basically anyone not named Pettersson, Hughes or Horvat are producing below expectations...
BRUCE THERE IT IS!
 
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