Around the NHL 10 - 2022/23

[WolfHouse]

Sure if you look at one indicator in terms of wins and losses.

Other indicators actually show the team has gotten better as the year has gone along but have been hit with a significant down turn in finish.

Maybe I'll make some graphs tonight.

I think it's pretty obvious that we don't have players who naturally fit the structure that the team wants to run.

We want to play a heavy forecheck game based more on chip and chase hockey. Does that template really fit the likes of Ehlers, Conner, Scheifele etc up front. You have a dichotomy between a group that wants to play more modern and offensive hockey and a coach who wants the to play more hard nosed old school hockey. Is it all that surprising that at times they deviate from a system that is likely not natural for them to play?

I was actually looking at the indicator of winning vs losing records through the different months of rhe season... wheels came off at almost exactly the same time

 

[surixon]

It's the timing part. That seems like an offseason move. Not in the middle of a road trip. Kypreos speculated that was the icing on the cake that he was leaving the Jets. Not sure if Lecavalier on any Montreal personnel were at the event, but it doesn't seem that any Jets were there, you know.

Maybe. But if there were Montreal Canadian personnel and they discussed joining the Habs that would be tampering and the Jets would have filed something with league.

Also I'm unsure how much a player wanting to test FA impacts teams. Trouba wanted out for years and we had our best seasons during that saga.

 

[voyageur]

Maybe. But if there were Montreal Canadian personnel and they discussed joining the Habs that would be tampering and the Jets would have filed something with league.

Also I'm unsure how much a player wanting to test FA impacts teams. Trouba wanted out for years and we had our best seasons during that saga.

It's not tampering if no one knows about it. And it's Montreal, the league isn't going to punish Montreal over Winnipeg.

Trouba had one great year out of his RFA years. His holdout might have cost the team a playoff spot in 2016-2017. And he had to play well once Myers got healthy because he could easily have ended up as a 3rd pairing d-man if he didn't. And that's not good for his own value. It's clear he pissed off the leadership, especially Buff, and he may be the reason the Jets didn't get past the 1st round in 2019. So there's that.

 

[surixon]

It's not tampering if no one knows about it. And it's Montreal, the league isn't going to punish Montreal over Winnipeg.

Trouba had one great year out of his RFA years. His holdout might have cost the team a playoff spot in 2016-2017. And he had to play well once Myers got healthy because he could easily have ended up as a 3rd pairing d-man if he didn't. And that's not good for his own value. It's clear he pissed off the leadership, especially Buff, and he may be the reason the Jets didn't get past the 1st round in 2019. So there's that.

There are players on every team that want out for one reason or another. I'm fairly certain most understand the business side of things and don't let it impact them and there performance.

 

[None]

Maybe. But if there were Montreal Canadian personnel and they discussed joining the Habs that would be tampering and the Jets would have filed something with league.

Also I'm unsure how much a player wanting to test FA impacts teams. Trouba wanted out for years and we had our best seasons during that saga.

There was that time where Perreault snapped at the reporters in preseason while Trouba was holding out. It's obvious that players know and it does affect them, but how much is the unknown.
Given Dubois' messy exit in Columbus and the media straight up saying that he's let teammates know that he wants to leave I wonder if it's having a larger effect than Trouba did.

 

[surixon]

There was that time where Perreault snapped at the reporters in preseason while Trouba was holding out. It's obvious that players know and it does affect them, but how much is the unknown.
Given Dubois' messy exit in Columbus and the media straight up saying that he's let teammates know that he wants to leave I wonder if it's having a larger effect than Trouba did.

If he is that disruptive then he should have been moved out asap. But I have a hard time believing it given that he only hurts his value and next contract by doing that.

 

[gojetsgo]

There was that time where Perreault snapped at the reporters in preseason while Trouba was holding out. It's obvious that players know and it does affect them, but how much is the unknown.
Given Dubois' messy exit in Columbus and the media straight up saying that he's let teammates know that he wants to leave I wonder if it's having a larger effect than Trouba did.

doubt it, trouba actually held out where pld showed up and we had a great start to the season, this is just a coincidence that people are trying to make into a conspiracy

 

[None]

If is that disruptive then he should have been moved out asap. But I have a hard time believing it given that he only hurts his value and next contract by doing that.

I agree but look at the Evander Kane situation with regards to how quickly Jets management react to issues. If there is an issue we might not actually get a response from the team until it actually explodes.

doubt it, trouba actually held out where pld showed up and we had a great start to the season, this is just a coincidence that people are trying to make into a conspiracy

Probably, personally I think the Jets struggles started showing a week or two before the Montreal game.

 

[LowLefty]

Sure if you look at one indicator in terms of wins and losses.

Other indicators actually show the team has gotten better as the year has gone along but have been hit with a significant down turn in finish.

Maybe I'll make some graphs tonight.

I think it's pretty obvious that we don't have players who naturally fit the structure that the team wants to run.

We want to play a heavy forecheck game based more on chip and chase hockey. Does that template really fit the likes of Ehlers, Conner, Scheifele etc up front. You have a dichotomy between a group that wants to play more modern and offensive hockey and a coach who wants the to play more hard nosed old school hockey. Is it all that surprising that at times they deviate from a system that is likely not natural for them to play?

So it coaching? Systems? Again?

I'm sticking with the players who need to adapt and play the way they did earlier this season - which was successful.
Should be easier doing that since they've already done it - assuming this is something we want to implement now in order to save the season.

I'm all for looking at other options if this core is still around next season - but I'm not holding my breath for it to have much of an impact at this point with this group.

 

[Jet]

I feel like our struggles started when we started getting players back.

I feel like the players relaxed thinking it was going to be easier, coupled with the returning players being rusty and not bought into the systems. From there the team got their confidence shaken and started trying to do it themselves and gripping their sticks.

I feel like we've been coming out of it the past several games and now we're just fighting shitty luck.

 

[LowLefty]

I feel like our struggles started when we started getting players back.

I feel like the players relaxed thinking it was going to be easier, coupled with the returning players being rusty and not bought into the systems. From there the team got their confidence shaken and started trying to do it themselves and gripping their sticks.

I feel like we've been coming out of it the past several games and now we're just fighting shitty luck.

I agree - there might be something in this theory, especially around the timing.
Not sure about your last point but I hope you're right

 

[surixon]

So it coaching? Systems? Again?

I'm sticking with the players who need to adapt and play the way they did earlier this season - which was successful.
Should be easier doing that since they've already done it - assuming this is something we want to implement now in order to save the season.

I'm all for looking at other options if this core is still around next season - but I'm not holding my breath for it to have much of an impact at this point with this group.

I think it's clearly both players and systems. I feel the players need to adapt more to Bones and his philosophy like they did earlier in the year. But I also think coaching needs to assess what these players are good at in the offensive zone and build in wrinkles that tailor to their skillsets within the confines of the overall structure.

 

[KingBogo]

I feel like our struggles started when we started getting players back.

I feel like the players relaxed thinking it was going to be easier, coupled with the returning players being rusty and not bought into the systems. From there the team got their confidence shaken and started trying to do it themselves and gripping their sticks.

I feel like we've been coming out of it the past several games and now we're just fighting shitty luck.

Agreed. I don't think this team is nearly as bad as everyone now assumes they are. You can add to the list of things going wrong is maybe Helly's worst 5-6 game streak in several years. If they get a couple in a row under their belt they can gain a little momentum, and there is still plenty of time to right the ship.

 

[LowLefty]

I think it's clearly both players and systems. I feel the players need to adapt more to Bones and his philosophy like they did earlier in the year. But I also think coaching needs to assess what these players are good at in the offensive zone and build in wrinkles that tailor to their skillsets within the confines of the overall structure.

I agree -
The part I have trouble with (and it's not your post) is whether this is a systems issue or players that don't want to play to a system consistently.
I'm not convinced that there are systems in play here that are simply not being executed - which makes us think there is a systems issue.
No one was talking about system issues 3 months ago - even our PP was working then.
What's changed?

 

[bustamente]

We have a core of players that say the right things off the ice but lately they have resorted to doing what they want on the ice and it seems that Bones is having trouble getting thru to some of them. That where you start in the off season in terms of reinventing this lineup.

 

[voyageur]

I agree but look at the Evander Kane situation with regards to how quickly Jets management react to issues. If there is an issue we might not actually get a response from the team until it actually explodes.



Probably, personally I think the Jets struggles started showing a week or two before the Montreal game.

Going into the Christmas break I thought the Jets were strong. They lost the Boston game because the refs refused to give them a 3rd period PP. Scheifele shoots the puck at a ref in Washington, that game didn't go well. Minnesota beat a tired team.

Then they bounce back, beat Edmonton, Calgary, Tampa, Vancouver twice for a winning streak. Go in to Detroit in what Chevy called the team's best performance of the year, and lose. Have a stinker in Buffalo and win. Hammered the Pens, like a tale of two teams going in different directions. Grind out a win against Zona. Then come the road trip to Montreal, a 5 gamer. 2-3 to salvage something. Lose 2 straight at home in embarrassing fashion. Win the next 3 at home, over a stretch of 2 weeks. Since then it's been downhill, fast.

 

[surixon]

I agree -
The part I have trouble with (and it's not your post) is whether this is a systems issue or players that don't want to play to a system consistently.
I'm not convinced that there are systems in play here that are simply not being executed - which makes us think there is a systems issue.
No one was talking about system issues 3 months ago - even our PP was working then.
What's changed?

One thing I've noticed is they have stopped rotating and switching in the ozone. They were doing that more earlier in the year.

The PP seems to have gone to shit the moment Dubois stopped playing the bumper position. Once he left that spot and went to the outside. They then elected to move Cole to the bumper spot and took him out of his element on the pp and thus both units starter to struggle. But we have seen the same static number one unit on two different staffs now so I'm going to guess the message isn't resonating with the players

 

[DRW204]

didn't realize the heater dawson mercer has been on. 11g 8a in his 11 gm pt streak.

 

[Duke749]

didn't realize the heater dawson mercer has been on. 11g 8a in his 11 gm pt streak.

I had to look him up because I’d never heard of him. I really didn’t see New Jersey being this good, especially already. I’m happy for them but dam.

 

[Jets 31]

I agree -
The part I have trouble with (and it's not your post) is whether this is a systems issue or players that don't want to play to a system consistently.
I'm not convinced that there are systems in play here that are simply not being executed - which makes us think there is a systems issue.
No one was talking about system issues 3 months ago - even our PP was working then.
What's changed?

The PP stopped scoring and Helly hasn't had a Helly game since we beat the Rangers in New York. To me the coaching staff should be trying everything to get the PP going including completely changing how we run it and who's on it.

 

[LowLefty]

The PP stopped scoring and Helly hasn't had a Helly game since we beat the Rangers in New York. To me the coaching staff should be trying everything to get the PP going including completely changing how we run it and who's on it.

I agree that the PP absolutely needs to get going - if they can solve that, it could change everything.
Scoring a few goals does wonders for a team that is not scoring many goals (no brainer).

 

[raideralex99]

Hawks score 2 goals on 7 shots on the Panthers in the 1st period and watch tomorrow the Panthers goalie will be unbeatable against the Jets.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

One thing I've noticed is they have stopped rotating and switching in the ozone. They were doing that more earlier in the year.

The PP seems to have gone to shit the moment Dubois stopped playing the bumper position. Once he left that spot and went to the outside. They then elected to move Cole to the bumper spot and took him out of his element on the pp and thus both units starter to struggle. But we have seen the same static number one unit on two different staffs now so I'm going to guess the message isn't resonating with the players

They move the puck painfully slow on the PP. 26 still looking for Laine

 

[Truenorthducky]

Hawks score 2 goals on 7 shots on the Panthers in the 1st period and watch tomorrow the Panthers goalie will be unbeatable against the Jets.

I’ll bet on it. lol

 

[bustamente]

Hawks are giving up chances left and right Mrazek stopping everything