Around the NHL — Episode XLXVI

[2CHAINZ]

You’d love it wouldn’t you. Would give you another reason to come on here to bitch and moan

Isn't that why the internet was invented?

 

[GCK]

The point is imagine if OS would have been an ADDITIONAL way for Dorion to get screwed over?

And why a Pinto OS wouldn't have been successful? We haven't had any cap space recently. If somebody offered Pinto 6.0 AAV for 8 years, he would have signed it for sure. What would we have done?



He is the worst GM of all time. I started a comparison with Mike Milbury a few months ago but I stopped as it was a futile exercise, it was not even close.

Dorion is gone. Pinto could only get 7 years on an offer sheet and even then 7 x 6M would require a 1st, 2nd and 3rd which most teams didn’t have and it would have been matched in a heartbeat.

 

[GCK]

They are great for the player involved and for NHLPA players in general. From a fan perspective, they can be a blessing or a curse, depending on whether your team is gaining or losing a player.

Good GMs have relationships with the agent. For example let’s say Ridley Greig breaks out this year and goes off for 20+20 and his agent gets an offer sheet of 5 x 5, the agent tells Staios what’s on the table and they work something out.

 

[JungleBeat]

The Emo is strong with this one

You’d love it wouldn’t you. Would give you another reason to come on here to bitch and moan

It’s not that serious. Enjoy the summer and stop getting triggered.

 

[The Last Red]

Ottawa could pick up the Montreal team and throw them into the reds and only person on Montreal who would be bothered by that would be Marty St Louis.

Montreal is building a team that complains to the refs

Their talent pipeline is way better, not even close. We’ll see what becomes of it.

 

[Emerica]

Isn't that why the internet was invented?

For that and tits

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

8.7 million a season for 2 more years for Laine.

I don't blame Montreal fans for being excited, I would be excited if we got a 2nd to pick up a former superstar earlier in our rebuild, but that's a lot of cap space for a question mark. You have to factor that in. Look at the Ceci+Glass trades. Something like 6x less cap space, and it's a 3rd round pick instead of a 2nd.

If he has resolved whatever issues were preventing him from playing to his potential, this could be a monster pickup for Montreal. Similar to getting a 1st to take Monahan, then flipping him for more assets.

 

[albator71]

Habs have nothing lose here, I doubt that Laine will move the needle for them, they still pretty thin at forwards but its a good gamble, we'll see how Laine deals with the being under the microscope in Montreal, Habs fans will expected him to score 50 goals this season.

 

[SENStastic]

Habs have nothing lose here, I doubt that Laine will move the needle for them, they still pretty thin at forwards but its a good gamble, we'll see how Laine deals with the being under the microscope in Montreal, Habs fans will expected him to score 50 goals this season.

I'd say they have a pretty decent top 6 now. Suzuki, Caufield, Dach, Slaf and Laine is a respectable group. If they can stay healthy, Laine can be a ppg player again, they can easily rival us depending how Norris, Giroux and Perron hold up. Can't write them off that easily anymore.

 

[SENStastic]

Wouldn't be surprised is Montreal has overtaken us ii n the rebuild.

Don't think they have just yet, but they're definitely on track to do so in a couple years. Its sad but true.

 

[2CHAINZ]

It’s not that serious. Enjoy the summer and stop getting triggered.

The internet playbook

Step 1: Say something you know you will get called out for

Step 2: Respond to the call out with "Stop getting triggered"

Step 3: Win internet

 

[Xspyrit]

Montreal hasn't surpassed us but as a trader Hughes absolutely destroys Dorion.

Which is why they are on the verge of surpassing us. Can you imagine they have their 1st and Calgary's in the next draft? Plus two 2nds, three 3rds and two 4ths. Would have been nice to compete during their rebuild and Leafs irrelevancy... F*** *** Dorion

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if they finish above us in the standings. lol people can flame me and call me a Habs fan all they want but it's hard to not see it trending this way.

Slafkovsky - Suzuki - Laine
Newhook - Dach - Caufield
Gallagher - Dvorak - Anderson
Roy - Evans - Armia
Pezzetta - ABB - RHP

Matheson - Guhle
Hutson - Savard
Struble - Barron
Xhekaj

Last year for Armia and Dvorak, only 3 years left for Gallagher and Anderson. Once these expire, Habs will be in an extremely good position, Demidov and Reinbacher might be impact players by then. We seriously need bad things to start happening to them.

They were in the SCF in 2021 and after only 3 years of rebuild, their rebuild already looks better than ours . I can't stress enough about how much Dorion ruined it all for us. We should sue the f*** out of him.

 

[JungleBeat]

push hard for askarov.

 

[Masked]

Which is why they are on the verge of surpassing us. Can you imagine they have their 1st and Calgary's in the next draft? Plus two 2nds, three 3rds and two 4ths. Would have been nice to compete during their rebuild and Leafs irrelevancy... F*** *** Dorion

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if they finish above us in the standings. lol people can flame me and call me a Habs fan all they want but it's hard to not see it trending this way.

Slafkovsky - Suzuki - Laine
Newhook - Dach - Caufield
Gallagher - Dvorak - Anderson
Roy - Evans - Armia
Pezzetta - ABB - RHP

Matheson - Guhle
Hutson - Savard
Struble - Barron
Xhekaj

Don't see a single player on that roster that I would trade Brady, Stutzle or Sanderson for. But I don't look at their roster with the bleu, blanc et rouge glasses that you do.

 

[JungleBeat]

The internet playbook

Step 1: Say something you know you will get called out for

Step 2: Respond to the call out with "Stop getting triggered"

Step 3: Win internet

Called out for saying the Habs rebuild is progressing better? Not exactly a wild statement.

You’re overthinking this pal, take a breather and touch grass.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Which is why they are on the verge of surpassing us. Can you imagine they have their 1st and Calgary's in the next draft? Plus two 2nds, three 3rds and two 4ths. Would have been nice to compete during their rebuild and Leafs irrelevancy... F*** *** Dorion

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if they finish above us in the standings. lol people can flame me and call me a Habs fan all they want but it's hard to not see it trending this way.

Slafkovsky - Suzuki - Laine
Newhook - Dach - Caufield
Gallagher - Dvorak - Anderson
Roy - Evans - Armia
Pezzetta - ABB - RHP

Matheson - Guhle
Hutson - Savard
Struble - Barron
Xhekaj

Last year for Armia and Dvorak, only 3 years left for Gallagher and Anderson. Once these expire, Habs will be in an extremely good position, Demidov and Reinbacher might be impact players by then. We seriously need bad things to start happening to them.

They were in the SCF in 2021 and after only 3 years of rebuild, their rebuild already looks better than ours . I can't stress enough about how much Dorion ruined it all for us. We should sue the f*** out of him.

It's a decent forward core but I don't see them being better than we are unless Laine becomes a 40 goal scorer again. Their defense is middling and they don't have a true #1 goalie.

I do think they have a much better prospect pipeline though and I can see them kicking our ass in 3-4 years.

 

[Xspyrit]

The "screwing" could be caused by mismanagement of the team's finances (e.g., paying too much for certain older vet players and not having enough salary cap dollars to pay your rising younger stars). Sometimes it would be caused by "success" similar to what happened to the Black Hawks after wining the SC and having to pay their players for that success (Toews and Kane) causing the loss of some very good players (e.g., Dustin Byfuglien) to free agency or trade for futures.

Yeah I was implying that, we were in a really bad spot regarding the cap. Just since last seasons, we have paid 2nd + 3rd + 3rd + 4th + 7th to get rid of Zaitsev, Joseph and Murray (75%) contracts. I'm not even talking about the rest of dead money

We were lucky nobody was able to screw us over with an offer sheet during the Dorion days. Maybe that is the reason why Dorion RUSHED to pay each one of them very generously (people argue that Norris and Chabot are overpaid, White was overpaid, some external fans say Sanderson is overpaid, etc...)

Both of those are/were horrendous contracts though. White was bought-out and has been exiled from the NHL, and Kotkaniemi isn't coming anywhere close to earning his contract and may yet be bought-out himself.

Whether it was this summer or last summer, it's a ludicrous contract to hand out for a player with no real track record of production.

You let him go in this case.

Shane Pinto was a much much better target to throw 6M$ at than either White or Kotkaniemi so it solidifies my point. Actually, that may have not be possible last year because of the gambling issue which was known by the NHL much earlier than us.

Maybe for you (as it is a matter of opinion at this point), you would rather have a late 1st and a 3rd but personally, I would rather have Pinto.

You can call it dirty of predatory, but I look at it as smart and quick witted.

GMs should be taking advantage of other GMs when the opportunity arises. If a GM knows their colleague is operating from a position of weakness, its their job to try and make a move where they get the most out of a transaction.

A team like the Dorion led Sens would be getting fleeced left and right, but that's where an organizations ownership needs to step up and fire an incompetent GM that is putting themselves in a position of weakness so many times.

Smart and quick witted only if you have the finances and ressources to go "at war" with your rivals. If your out-numbered, out-ressourced, out-trained (think in a war setting reality) etc, you're just f***ing dumb.

Of course GMs should be taking advantage of other GMs but the thing is an OS doesn't go unnoticed and may look as "barbarian" to many GMs, that you find it cool or not. The question then becomes : how many ennemies can you afford?

Look at the Aho/Kotkaniemi situation... Carolina was pretty resentful about the Aho OS so they decided to steal Kotkaniemi away from Montreal... luckily for the Habs, JK never really developed so no big deal for them in the end but imagine if the guy turned into a very good player?

So it's about thinking about long term consequences. I am not saying you can't operate the way you'd like (if you were a GM, assuming your owner is FINE with it) but there is consequences.

Not only the Sens had the worst management possible but were very POOR for a NHL team before the sale... which made things worse and our neighbors are the richest NHL teams.

Dorion is gone. Pinto could only get 7 years on an offer sheet and even then 7 x 6M would require a 1st, 2nd and 3rd which most teams didn’t have and it would have been matched in a heartbeat.

I didn't know the 5 years thing, so it got changed to 4 years x 6.0 AAV

So let's say we matched (LAST year), how would we fit the cap?

 

[2CHAINZ]

Called out for saying the Habs rebuild is progressing better? Not exactly a wild statement.

You’re overthinking this pal, take a breather and touch grass.

Lol, touch the grass. My man, just stop I can't stop laughing. I assume your next response will call me a snowflake.

In all seriousness, your first message was that you wouldn't be surprised if Montreal has overtaken us with a rebuild. You know Montreal has not overtaken us, and you know saying it in HFsens is going to get a response. Judging by your responses, I assume you are just trolling, but if not, Montreal has not overtaken us, and they still suck, and we own them.

 

[Tuna99]

Their talent pipeline is way better, not even close. We’ll see what becomes of it.

I don’t believe that. They have some talent but who on that team is going to stand up to Matthew Tkachuk? Their leader is a thinker, their top goal scorer is so small he could be tied to Stuztle stick even with his tape job and their #1 D is scared of the boards. And who’s saving the puck?

They are building a soft team, just like Gorton did in NY

 

[Xspyrit]

Their talent pipeline is way better, not even close. We’ll see what becomes of it.

As a Sens fan for almost 30 years who used to hate the Habs, I have to unfortunately agree. Sens u30 talent pool became really limited. Montreal's pool is very deep and they will add big time next draft too.

Habs have nothing lose here, I doubt that Laine will move the needle for them, they still pretty thin at forwards but its a good gamble, we'll see how Laine deals with the being under the microscope in Montreal, Habs fans will expected him to score 50 goals this season.

If they are thin at forward... what does that make us? What do we have after Stutzle/Tkachuk/Batherson/Pinto/Greig? A few 36 y/o?

I'm sorry to be a debbie downer but they might outscore us as soon as this season.

Don't see a single player on that roster that I would trade Brady, Stutzle or Sanderson for. But I don't look at their roster with the bleu, blanc et rouge glasses that you do.

Well, I might be a Habs homer (apparently lol!), but they have some pretty nice talent now, mainly Slafkovsky, Suzuki, Demidov, Hutson and Reinbacher (but their depth after that destroys us). I'm not even counting Patrik Laine the former 2nd OA pick who already has 5 seasons at 0.85+ PPG at 26 y/o...

Slaf may beCOME (edit : should have worded it like that!) as good or even better than Brady. Suzuki outscored Stutzle last season with pretty good defensive metrics. The only thing they don't have is a gem like Sanderson. Gotta sacrifice lambs that Reinbacher or whoever (from Calgary 1st round pick in 2025 for example) don't become as good

It's a decent forward core but I don't see them being better than we are unless Laine becomes a 40 goal scorer again. Their defense is middling and they don't have a true #1 goalie.

I do think they have a much better prospect pipeline though and I can see them kicking our ass in 3-4 years.

Crossing the fingers that Laine doesn't work out there and leaves instead of extending. Crossing the fingers that Motembault doesn't continue progressing and that Jacob Fowler flops. Crossing the fingers that Slaf doesn't become a PPG power forward, crossing the fingers that Suzuki starts missing NHL games and never has a season as good as he had last year, crossing the fingers that Demidov doesn't become as good as expected, etc. etc.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

Which is why they are on the verge of surpassing us. Can you imagine they have their 1st and Calgary's in the next draft? Plus two 2nds, three 3rds and two 4ths. Would have been nice to compete during their rebuild and Leafs irrelevancy... F*** *** Dorion

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if they finish above us in the standings. lol people can flame me and call me a Habs fan all they want but it's hard to not see it trending this way.

Slafkovsky - Suzuki - Laine
Newhook - Dach - Caufield
Gallagher - Dvorak - Anderson
Roy - Evans - Armia
Pezzetta - ABB - RHP

Matheson - Guhle
Hutson - Savard
Struble - Barron
Xhekaj

Last year for Armia and Dvorak, only 3 years left for Gallagher and Anderson. Once these expire, Habs will be in an extremely good position, Demidov and Reinbacher might be impact players by then. We seriously need bad things to start happening to them.

They were in the SCF in 2021 and after only 3 years of rebuild, their rebuild already looks better than ours . I can't stress enough about how much Dorion ruined it all for us. We should sue the f*** out of him.

Not to mention we traded much more valuable assets when blowing it up-Karlsson, Stone, Duchene, Pageau, Dzingel.

Did Montreal even have anyone significant to gain picks/prospects from? I guess Romanov and Monahan, but come one.

 

[Xspyrit]

Not to mention we traded much more valuable assets when blowing it up-Karlsson, Stone, Duchene, Pageau, Dzingel.

Did Montreal even have anyone significant to gain picks/prospects from? I guess Romanov and Monahan, but come one.

Depressing... They traded Tyler Toffoli, Ben freaking Chiarot, Brett Kulak and Artturi Lehkonen.

Pierre Dorion single handily destroyed my fan experience for years. We'd be in such a good position if he didn't do anything but just trade to acquire the most possible picks and then draft BPA (so no Boucher)

 

[GCK]

Yeah I was implying that, we were in a really bad spot regarding the cap. Just since last seasons, we have paid 2nd + 3rd + 3rd + 4th + 7th to get rid of Zaitsev, Joseph and Murray (75%) contracts. I'm not even talking about the rest of dead money

We were lucky nobody was able to screw us over with an offer sheet during the Dorion days. Maybe that is the reason why Dorion RUSHED to pay each one of them very generously (people argue that Norris and Chabot are overpaid, White was overpaid, some external fans say Sanderson is overpaid, etc...)



Shane Pinto was a much much better target to throw 6M$ at than either White or Kotkaniemi so it solidifies my point. Actually, that may have not be possible last year because of the gambling issue which was known by the NHL much earlier than us.

Maybe for you (as it is a matter of opinion at this point), you would rather have a late 1st and a 3rd but personally, I would rather have Pinto.



Smart and quick witted only if you have the finances and ressources to go "at war" with your rivals. If your out-numbered, out-ressourced, out-trained (think in a war setting reality) etc, you're just f***ing dumb.

Of course GMs should be taking advantage of other GMs but the thing is an OS doesn't go unnoticed and may look as "barbarian" to many GMs, that you find it cool or not. The question then becomes : how many ennemies can you afford?

Look at the Aho/Kotkaniemi situation... Carolina was pretty resentful about the Aho OS so they decided to steal Kotkaniemi away from Montreal... luckily for the Habs, JK never really developed so no big deal for them in the end but imagine if the guy turned into a very good player?

So it's about thinking about long term consequences. I am not saying you can't operate the way you'd like (if you were a GM, assuming your owner is FINE with it) but there is consequences.

Not only the Sens had the worst management possible but were very POOR for a NHL team before the sale... which made things worse and our neighbors are the richest NHL teams.



I didn't know the 5 years thing, so it got changed to 4 years x 6.0 AAV

So let's say we matched (LAST year), how would we fit the cap?

Pinto wasn’t eligible for an OS last year.

 

[StoicSensFan]

Slaf may be as good or even better than Brady.

Dude, go to the Habs board with this garbage.

 

[Loach]

PuckPedia has the Habs 2m over the cap.

Who is on ltir?