Around the NHL — Episode XLXVI

[Micklebot]

OHH MY GOD.. you are engaging in a debate of which loser is the worst loser!!!!!

Both teams are garbage.

Columbus went through a good 8 years 2006-2014 where their draft was good and it resulted in the 17-20 period. Then they stank at the draft again, and the team has since collapsed.

Ottawa had 3 good years 9, 10 and 11. And it showed in the 2017 ECF run.
They then went into the toilette 12-19 and we see the 18-present mess.

Both teams are nearly identical. As is Buffalo, as are the Habs, Wings, Cayotes/UTAH HC, SJ, Anaheim, Chicago.

Which of these bottom 7-8 teams is the worst loser??? Common.

Idiot owners, who failed to properly monitor. Idiot POHOs who failed to monitor. Idiot Media who failed to monitor (although in Media's case, it is hard to do your job when you can easily be spanked).

2014 Columbus takes Sonny Milano. I love that name.. "it's not personal Sonny, It's Business" (see if you can figure out where that line comes from). Look at the next 6-8 guys. Rock solid. Even Tony D'Angelo (When his head is screwed on right)

2015 Ottawa takes White (their 2nd first). Now look at the 5-6 after him.

That is it.. It is that simple. When you are one of the leagues 10-12 underprivileged franchise. You need to minimize the Sonny Milano's, the Collin White's. And increase the "see any of the 4-6 names after them".

April 20th of every year would be my "sit and explain date". My POHO, my GM, and the entire network, would be in a board room at the CTC. 3 and 4 year earlier drafts would be analyzed. The IT man would be sitting at his desk, with an HR person next to him. Waiting for me to text a name. He would then cut off all accesses and credentials, etc. The HR person would finish the paper work. Everyone at that meeting had better hope, I don't text a name(s).

And before you jump a mile high. Yes, there would be fantastic latitude for "hey failure occurs". What there would not be latitude for? "3 straight years of failures occurring"

Nah, I'm just calling you out on your lazy takes. You've yet to do anything to justify why you think Clb had solid drafting, because you refuse to do the necessary work. Until you can do that, you're blowing smoke, and nothing more.

You should know better, but instead you've started with your conclusion that good drafting leads to success, and then decided a team drafted well because they followed up with some success. It's a circular argument without evidence until you actually look at the numbers, but every time you are presented with factual numbers, you dismiss them

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I absolutely don't care who wins the series, but agreed that was supremely entertaining. Dallas looked like they had it locked down and Edmonton just exploded out

Ya, that was playoff hockey for sure. Very intense feeling to it, but maybe that's partly from being so emotionally invested in Edmonton. The building was definitely rocking. Really hope they're up for the challenge, they finally have the right ingredients imo even if Skinner is a bit weak and would ideally have a higher end defense group.

 

[Beech]

Nah, I'm just calling you out on your lazy takes. You've yet to do anything to justify why you think Clb had solid drafting, because you refuse to do the necessary work. Until you can do that, you're blowing smoke, and nothing more.

You should know better, but instead you've started with your conclusion that good drafting leads to success, and then decided a team drafted well because they followed up with some success. It's a circular argument without evidence until you actually look at the numbers, but every time you are presented with factual numbers, you dismiss them

come on Mick.

Get on the Dallas Stars hockeydb page. See their success 2018-present (standings wise).

Now see their drafting 2011 onwards. Rock solid. Many players are still in the league. Many are still with them. Many are playing well. Many are top end guys. Some where traded to acquire quality players.

Poster child for "draft to success".

Draft well = success
Don't draft well = failure
If you are a unique "advantaged market". Don't draft well = can still be success, due to FA's and if you are smart in your trades. NYR and Miami are the best examples.
Edmonton and Toronto = UNIQUE. The best point getter(s) the last 25 years (McJesus and Drai) and the best goal scorer the last 25 years (and possibly of all time, if he keeps going as he is)

when Staios or in the future Bettman, stands at that podium and says, the Ottawa Senators select ; John SMITH from XXXXXX . John Smith has 3 years to get his ass to the Sens and has to be productive (relative to his draft position). YES, misses can and will occur.

If 3, or more, consecutive years go by and the draft produces few players, or even if a large number, but that large number is 3rd and 4th liners, or 5, 6 or 7 Dmen. Just sit and wait. See what will happen 1-2 years after the last of those 3 years.

Ottawa struggled for 8 (2012-2019)
Columbus is 8 and counting
Buffalo, Chicago, MTL, Detroit, Arizona, SJ, Anaheim, all had gaps of 3-5 years.

Open up two hockeydb pages side by side, see Dallas and see Columbus. One makes you pee your pants laughing. One explains why Dallas has been the stalwart they are the last 5-6 years.

draft to success... the NHL is not the NBA or MLB. And the Sens, are neither the Yankees, nor the Lakers. And Columbus is no better.

draft a kid. 3 years to get him NHL ready. 1-2 more years of ELC. Bridging 1-2 years. Slap on a 5 or 6 x Y dollars. And reap the benefit. By the time he starts itching to leave to better locales, you have sucked 8-9 years out of him.

POHO.. what the f*** are they being hired for?

 

[Micklebot]

come on Mick.

Get on the Dallas Stars hockeydb page. See their success 2018-present (standings wise).

Now see their drafting 2011 onwards. Rock solid. Many players are still in the league. Many are still with them. Many are playing well. Many are top end guys. Some where traded to acquire quality players.

Poster child for "draft to success".

Draft well = success
Don't draft well = failure
If you are a unique "advantaged market". Don't draft well = can still be success, due to FA's and if you are smart in your trades. NYR and Miami are the best examples.
Edmonton and Toronto = UNIQUE. The best point getter(s) the last 25 years (McJesus and Drai) and the best goal scorer the last 25 years (and possibly of all time, if he keeps going as he is)

when Staios or in the future Bettman, stands at that podium and says, the Ottawa Senators select ; John SMITH from XXXXXX . John Smith has 3 years to get his ass to the Sens and has to be productive (relative to his draft position). YES, misses can and will occur.

If 3, or more, consecutive years go by and the draft produces few players, or even if a large number, but that large number is 3rd and 4th liners, or 5, 6 or 7 Dmen. Just sit and wait. See what will happen 1-2 years after the last of those 3 years.

Ottawa struggled for 8 (2012-2019)
Columbus is 8 and counting
Buffalo, Chicago, MTL, Detroit, Arizona, SJ, Anaheim, all had gaps of 3-5 years.

Open up two hockeydb pages side by side, see Dallas and see Columbus. One makes you pee your pants laughing. One explains why Dallas has been the stalwart they are the last 5-6 years.

draft to success... the NHL is not the NBA or MLB. And the Sens, are neither the Yankees, nor the Lakers. And Columbus is no better.

draft a kid. 3 years to get him NHL ready. 1-2 more years of ELC. Bridging 1-2 years. Slap on a 5 or 6 x Y dollars. And reap the benefit. By the time he starts itching to leave to better locales, you have sucked 8-9 years out of him.

POHO.. what the f*** are they being hired for?

The extremes tend to be easier to identify, especially over shorter time frames, a while back, I linked to about a dozen different examples of team drafting evaluations, all of them had Ottawa around the middle of the pack, but you ignored them and dismissed them with excuses like Ottawa is bad theirfore their picks play more.

You just don't want to do the work, you're happy to sing the same song regardless of whether or not it holds up to the facts. Doing the work might force you to stop singing that tired song.

 

[bicboi64]

Ya, that was playoff hockey for sure. Very intense feeling to it, but maybe that's partly from being so emotionally invested in Edmonton. The building was definitely rocking. Really hope they're up for the challenge, they finally have the right ingredients imo even if Skinner is a bit weak and would ideally have a higher end defense group.

I want Dallas to win, but want the series to go to 7 games. Mainly so I can see more of Oettinger's jedi force controlling of his stick

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I want Dallas to win, but want the series to go to 7 games. Mainly so I can see more of Oettinger's jedi force controlling of his stick

That was something else. I can't remember ever seeing that before, but I'm sure it's happened.

At first I thought the puck was going wide, but I'm of the conclusion it was going post and in.

I just want the ride to continue. If the Oilers are out and I got nobody to root for, it's time to move on to summer time!

 

[Beech]

The extremes tend to be easier to identify, especially over shorter time frames, a while back, I linked to about a dozen different examples of team drafting evaluations, all of them had Ottawa around the middle of the pack, but you ignored them and dismissed them with excuses like Ottawa is bad theirfore their picks play more.

You just don't want to do the work, you're happy to sing the same song regardless of whether or not it holds up to the facts. Doing the work might force you to stop singing that tired song.

yea, because that is all that they are. Excuses.

It is all that we have here. Excuses.

We are a government town, everyone makes excuses and sheds responsibility. It filters to the masses.

we are a stone's throw away from Buffalohood, yet documents are there showing we draft well!!! But, damn all that bad luck!!!! No worries Mick. I will write every Priest, Imam, Rabbi, Monk, Minister, spiritual healer, Zen specialist and so on. We will break the spell. I have been watching Coven on the documentary channel.. Witches, They claim to be real.. Who am I to argue. Now I am not sure that I know nay witche sin Ottawa (I know some bitches, but that is another story), But I will find and break the spell.

Once Old Gary came into the NHL. It has been a "cover and deceive" league. He learned it from David Stern. Then Honest Abe Melnyk, a man convicted of fraud, and is as crooked as a boxer's nose, made damn good use of excuses and spin.

Nothing is ever wrong. Or is ever anyone's fault. If you don't believe me, ask Gord Wislon. The team is great at drafting, loses like crazy, but f*** can they draft. I am guessing a black hole exists that sucks these players up and we lose them.

Keep pouring the cool aide for the masses to drink.

I gotta tell you a story Mick. In 1966, the PLO and Palestinian refugees were running their course in Jordan and Syria. So they were quietly shipped off to Lebanon. The September 1970 war between the PLO and Jordan, resulted in many more being shipped off to Lebanon. The Lebanese recognized the danger. A small nation of 3 million (back in 1970), poorly defended, could not have 100,000 armed PLO fighters. But Bribery and coercion forced hands. And politicians would lie. They would get on TV and say, 'There are no PLO fighters in Lebanon".. We would watch it on TV, PLO fighters were camped on our land and had us scared to death!!!... "No PLO fighter here". Cool aide drinks for the rest of the nation. In 1974, a 20 year wear broke out in Lebanon. Started mostly by a PLO/Lebanese government conflict. It became a civil war.

At some point, people need to stop drinking the Cool Aide, look around and use their own judgement. And every excuse, every story, every guy who presents some data showing "flowery" results, needs to be dismissed.

And at some point, the bottom 10-12 teams in this league. The ones that have been this way for large parts of the last 10-12 years. Have to stop being more preoccupied with excuses, cover-ups, propaganda, manipulation and start drafting better.

Effectively, when a Politicians stand in front of a TV camera, and says "there are no PLO fighters in Lebanon". We need to tell him to shut the f*** up.

 

[Icelevel]

Another dummy coach throws a playoff game away and potentially puts the nail in their coffin.
DONT PULL THE GOALIE WITH OVER 2 mins TO GO

 

[Senscore]

Maybe if Zibanejad cut his hair he'd be better

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Panthers are winning the cup.

 

[PlayOn]

Florida is so good. They pretty much outplay their opponent every game but they’ve faced some great goalies every round.

Imagine facing Vasi, Swayman and Shesterkin and then going to the finals and shooting on Skinner.

 

[Daffy]

Maybe if Zibanejad cut his hair he'd be better

One of the most overrated players in the league.

 

[PlayOn]

Zib used to be really good but he’s 31 now and probably on the decline. Panarin was really bad tonight too and this series in general.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Zib soft under pressure….

I’ve always hated the rangers back through the days of trying to buy the cup each year and failing.

Then they get stars demanding out to go there, and those guys have been invisible. Fox is likely injured, but Zub has been soft as charmin, and Bread boy has been invisible.

Their best players have been their lucked out 1oa pick that they had no business having, and their goalie.

 

[Icelevel]

Zib soft under pressure….

He created a goal on his next shift.
And if he ended up drawing the penalty there it could have won them the game.
Not much to criticize there.

 

[Ice-Tray]

He created a goal on his next shift.
And if he ended up drawing the penalty there it could have won them the game.
Not much to criticize there.

Except he didn’t draw a penalty, he was soft as shit with the net empty. He assisted on a couple goals today, but has been a non factor for the vast majority of the series. He lacks intensity, he’s a one year player, which has always been his knock.

Some guys are regular season heroes.

 

[Icelevel]

Except he didn’t draw a penalty, he was soft as shit with the net empty. He assisted on a couple goals today, but has been a non factor for the vast majority of the series. He lacks intensity, he’s a one year player, which has always been his knock.

Some guys are regular season heroes.

He played 24 mins (first on the team) and primary assisted on both goals they scored.

He could be more physical yes but he’s still a 70 pt player at least and a point per game in the playoffs. That’s pretty good for a down year.

Of all the guys on that team to complain about.

 

[Ice-Tray]

He played 24 mins (first on the team) and primary assisted on both goals they scored.

He could be more physical yes but he’s still a 70 pt player at least and a point per game in the playoffs. That’s pretty good for a down year.

Of all the guys on that team to complain about.

This is not a down year, this is Zib in the playoffs. He can make nice plays which makes him valuable, and thankfully the team has other players to do all of the hard work.

Zib is what he’s always been. Heck, even NY fans have talked about it consistently over the years. Look, Matthews is also an awesome regular season player, Marner too.

We may find that we have some of those guys as well. But Zib just doesn’t really get it done when the intensity ramps up, he’s definitely a nice player, just not an impressive playoff player.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Maybe he could have been harder on it but imo he was already on the wrong side of Bennett. It's more about the anticipation than the reaction to the elbow imo, but there was a Ranger that got burned right after so maybe Zib forces Bennett into that more if he sticks with it. Tough play when you take one quick to the face like that unexpectedly and without knowing the level of impact. Split second was all it took, but imo he'd already likely lost the play. At least he didn't sulk and went right back out. Also, they were still losing 2-1 at that point, so hard to pin the loss specifically on that. I thought Zib was a monster in the playoffs 2 years ago, and he's still producing, but he's not been as good this year.

In general, it's hard to say it's one guys fault when the team is so heavily outmatched. All perspectives I guess, but I find the Rangers more likable than the Panthers. The Panthers have also had good fortune and are an advantaged team by NHL standards.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Maybe he could have been harder on it but imo he was already on the wrong side of Bennett. It's more about the anticipation than the reaction to the elbow imo, but there was a Ranger that got burned right after so maybe Zib forces Bennett into that more if he sticks with it. Tough play when you take one quick to the face like that unexpectedly and without knowing the level of impact. Split second was all it took, but imo he'd already likely lost the play. At least he didn't sulk and went right back out. Also, they were still losing 2-1 at that point, so hard to pin the loss specifically on that. I thought Zib was a monster in the playoffs 2 years ago, and he's still producing, but he's not been as good this year.

In general, it's hard to say it's one guys fault when the team is so heavily outmatched. All perspectives I guess, but I find the Rangers more likable than the Panthers. The Panthers have also had good fortune and are an advantaged team by NHL standards.

That was just one play, but it’s just his instinct to shy away. Stu was doing it a lot this season where he would kind of give up for a few seconds after a missed shot, or hit that he though deserved a call.

Guys have to grow out of that and keep playing and let the refs do their jobs. The nice things with Stu is that he very clearly runs hot and is very emotional as a player, that can be harnessed.

Zib plays with zero emotion and doesn’t really elevate his play when the chips are down. The saving grace with him is that he is a very high level player. But what you see at game one is what you get in game 5 of the ECF.

Zib had question marks about his intensity and play while he was with us, no matter how many people now pretend they didn’t exist.

 

[Oscar The Grouch]

That was just one play, but it’s just his instinct to shy away. Stu was doing it a lot this season where he would kind of give up for a few seconds after a missed shot, or hit that he though deserved a call.

Guys have to grow out of that and keep playing and let the refs do their jobs. The nice things with Stu is that he very clearly runs hot and is very emotional as a player, that can be harnessed.

Zib plays with zero emotion and doesn’t really elevate his play when the chips are down. The saving grace with him is that he is a very high level player. But what you see at game one is what you get in game 5 of the ECF.

Zib had question marks about his intensity and play while he was with us, no matter how many people now pretend they didn’t exist.

Waiting for you to tell us the Brassard trade was a good one.

 

[DylanSensFan]

That was just one play, but it’s just his instinct to shy away. Stu was doing it a lot this season where he would kind of give up for a few seconds after a missed shot, or hit that he though deserved a call.

Guys have to grow out of that and keep playing and let the refs do their jobs. The nice things with Stu is that he very clearly runs hot and is very emotional as a player, that can be harnessed.

Zib plays with zero emotion and doesn’t really elevate his play when the chips are down. The saving grace with him is that he is a very high level player. But what you see at game one is what you get in game 5 of the ECF.

Zib had question marks about his intensity and play while he was with us, no matter how many people now pretend they didn’t exist.

I dunno, all players have off games. Look at 97 and 29 in Edmonton. The playoffs are just really damn intense. I can't say that Zib doesn't get up for games, because he was part of that first goal for the Rangers tonight. It's just the Panther's as a team want it more than the Rangers. I don't think it's necessarily about individual players.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Imagine knocking on Zibby while they're in the conference finals and he remains one of their top point producers.

Delusional much?

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

That was just one play, but it’s just his instinct to shy away. Stu was doing it a lot this season where he would kind of give up for a few seconds after a missed shot, or hit that he though deserved a call.

Guys have to grow out of that and keep playing and let the refs do their jobs. The nice things with Stu is that he very clearly runs how and is very emotional as a player, that can be harnessed.

Zub plays with zero emotion and doesn’t really elevate his play when the chips are down. The saving grace with him is that he is a very high level player. But what you see at game one is what you get in game 5 of the ECF.

I don't know that that's exactly my viewing experience with him. I can't really qualify that with anything but words and do think he presents as a low key guy which can be hard to read/rubs some people the wrong way, but I've seen him raise his game in important moments too. I thought he was a monster 2 years ago, and he really hasn't been in the playoffs a whole lot otherwise.

Criticism is fair based on a couple plays, he said it himself, but I don't agree with the general idea that he's soft on the big stage. Zibanejad is a winning hockey player imo. I think it's fair to say he's not been a force this year, but I still don't see him as a problem for a team being so heavily outplayed, sans the goaltender. He's produced and only makes 8.5 million as a #1 center, so he's giving close to what you can expect for value. He's outproduced both Kreider and Panarin this playoffs and 2022 even if he's not as physical as some would like. He's not Draisaitl, but he's not Marner either.

I would agree that he's probably not the type of old school #1 center that's going to drag everyone across the line kicking and screaming, but that's just the makeup of their team, similar to Dallas imo.

 

[Senscore]

Imagine knocking on Zibby while they're in the conference finals and he remains one of their top point producers.

Delusional much?

He's still a very good player but this Rangers team won the President's Trophy.

To be upstaged at the level they have been is unquestionably a disappointment.

Their star players can't really grind it out that well.