Around the NHL – Part XL - Mod post page 249

[Synergy27]

Copying my post from the main boards thread because I’m right and more people need to know.

This is all just theoretical nonsense, so I hesitate to even post it. That said, the offsides rule is in place to prevent goal hanging. It is there to prevent this situation from happening:

View attachment 554666

Allowing plays like that would fundamentally change the game. It turns the game into roller hockey, which is great and fun on its own, but a different game than NHL ice hockey.

The NHL has made a decision to call offsides black and white down to the millimeter. I hate this decision, as it extends the power of the rule WAY beyond its spirit.

The play last night was not offsides per the spirit of the rule. In fact, the other Avs player is taking himself out of the play by tagging up. This is the opposite of the situation the offsides rule is meant to discourage.

The play last night was definitely offsides per the implementation of the rule. This nit picking about possession is absurd. Of course Makar was in possession of the puck. Give me a break.

 

[LokiDog]

Copying my post from the main boards thread because I’m right and more people need to know.

This is all just theoretical nonsense, so I hesitate to even post it. That said, the offsides rule is in place to prevent goal hanging. It is there to prevent this situation from happening:

View attachment 554666

Allowing plays like that would fundamentally change the game. It turns the game into roller hockey, which is great and fun on its own, but a different game than NHL ice hockey.

The NHL has made a decision to call offsides black and white down to the millimeter. I hate this decision, as it extends the power of the rule WAY beyond its spirit.

The play last night was not offsides per the spirit of the rule. In fact, the other Avs player is taking himself out of the play by tagging up. This is the opposite of the situation the offsides rule is meant to discourage.

The play last night was definitely offsides per the implementation of the rule. This nit picking about possession is absurd. Of course Makar was in possession of the puck. Give me a break.

Agree with you. They don’t call it according to the spirit of the rule though. Otherwise plays where a goal was scored 2 minutes later and, upon replay, they have to discuss whether or not both skates were touching the ice when a teammate tagged up to determine whether or not the play was offside wouldn’t exist. Since they have already set that precedent of nitpicking, down to whether a skate is in contact with the ice or hovering over it, even when the attacking team is tagging up - taking themselves momentarily out of the play, as you pointed out - then this should have been an EASY no goal call. The precedent has been set. Unless the conference finals is the appropriate time to completely change that precedent, this is just horrific officiating.


Do I agree with you about the spirit of the rule of offsides? Yes, I do. Does it matter when the NHL has very much, black and white (as you said, not arguing with you) chosen to call the rule down to a skate blade being all of 2cm above the ice? Nope. That’s the way the rule has been called since reviews were implemented and now is not the time to change it. If they want to address it in the off-season and announce that they will be interpreting it differently going forward, based on players tagging up and the “spirit” of the rule, I would be fine with that. As of now, this is 10,000% no goal.

 

[romba]

Copying my post from the main boards thread because I’m right and more people need to know.

This is all just theoretical nonsense, so I hesitate to even post it. That said, the offsides rule is in place to prevent goal hanging. It is there to prevent this situation from happening:

View attachment 554666

Allowing plays like that would fundamentally change the game. It turns the game into roller hockey, which is great and fun on its own, but a different game than NHL ice hockey.

The NHL has made a decision to call offsides black and white down to the millimeter. I hate this decision, as it extends the power of the rule WAY beyond its spirit.

The play last night was not offsides per the spirit of the rule. In fact, the other Avs player is taking himself out of the play by tagging up. This is the opposite of the situation the offsides rule is meant to discourage.

The play last night was definitely offsides per the implementation of the rule. This nit picking about possession is absurd. Of course Makar was in possession of the puck. Give me a break.

Earlier we had an call deemed offside against Buffalo where Buffalo had a guy in the zone dilly dallying at the blue for no reason while a Buf forward brought the puck in the zone with control. The NHL later said they made a mistake because even though the puck was brought in with possession before the player touched up, the puck was not actually touched in the zone before the other player touched up. I said possession=possession so it doesn't matter when the puck was actually touched, but clearly the NHL disagrees. At least they're consistent I guess.

I think the NHL cares about possession for carrying it in with regard to straight offsides, but not for touching up. Touching up is 'was the puck touched in the zone by any offensive before the other player touched up.

 

[Synergy27]

Agree with you. They don’t call it according to the spirit of the rule though. Otherwise plays where a goal was scored 2 minutes later and, upon replay, they have to discuss whether or not both skates were touching the ice when a teammate tagged up to determine whether or not the play was offside wouldn’t exist. Since they have already set that precedent of nitpicking, down to whether a skate is in contact with the ice or hovering over it, even when the attacking team is tagging up - taking themselves momentarily out of the play, as you pointed out - then this should have been an EASY no goal call. The precedent has been set. Unless the conference finals is the appropriate time to completely change that precedent, this is just horrific officiating.


Do I agree with you about the spirit of the rule of offsides? Yes, I do. Does it matter when the NHL has very much, black and white (as you said, not arguing with you) chosen to call the rule down to a skate blade being all of 2cm above the ice? Nope. That’s the way the rule has been called since reviews were implemented and now is not the time to change it. If they want to address it in the off-season and announce that they will be interpreting it differently going forward, based on players tagging up and the “spirit” of the rule, I would be fine with that. As of now, this is 10,000% no goal.

Yep. Unfortunately this is how it is.

I understand the desire for black and white. You don’t want the refs in the middle of a controversy over every call. Uh, wait a minute…

 

[SA16]

The call is pretty clear cut and has happened many times before. I don't really understand the controversy. It may be a bad rule though but I'd probably argue changing it to possession instead of first touch would be worse. It then just moves the controversy to "did he have possession" from "did he touch the puck?"

I think you can probably just get rid of offside on zone entries. Nobody is going to just stand in the offensive zone alone and give the other team essentially a PP. Easy enough to test it in the AHL/ECHL and see what happens.

 

[Avery16]

Didn’t get into current roster, didn’t talk about many past Rangers. Mostly Gretzky. A little Keenan. Said he didn’t like the Domi trade.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Jim Schoenfield was the greatest.

"HAVE ANOTHER DONUT"

"....You Fat Pig!"

I'm in the U.S. and not close to the Canadian border - why does the ESPN+ service only give me the Canadian Sportsnet feeds for the 2nd and 3rd round playoff games???

Be thankful.

 

[Crease]

What the NHL is essentially saying is Makar dumped the puck in, waited for his teammate to tag up, then entered the zone and collected the puck. That is asinine. Watch the play in real-time.

This is the NFL catch/football move issue all over again. When is a player deemed to have possession of the puck? Ball is in the NHL's court to rewrite the rule so that this is offside (as it should be).

 

[Matt Rentfree]

What the NHL is essentially saying is Makar dumped the puck in, waited for his teammate to tag up, then entered the zone and collected the puck. That is asinine. Watch the play in real-time.

This is the NFL catch/football move issue all over again. When is a player deemed to have possession of the puck? Ball is in the NHL's court to rewrite the rule so that this is offside (as it should be).

This seems like it should be an issue that shouldn't have to rely on any sort of "interpretation" from the refs or Toronto. Keep it simple. If an attacking player is in the zone before the puck and doesn't get onside by the time the puck is over the blueline, the play is offside. I don't know why this needs to be over complicated.

 

[SA16]

This seems like it should be an issue that shouldn't have to rely on any sort of "interpretation" from the refs or Toronto. Keep it simple. If an attacking player is in the zone before the puck and doesn't get onside by the time the puck is over the blueline, the play is offside. I don't know why this needs to be over complicated.

Because without tag-up offside once the play it is offside it is permanently that way and the defensive team can just stand around in their zone for however long they want until the ref eventually blows the whistle.

 

[Bob Richards]

I think you can probably just get rid of offside on zone entries. Nobody is going to just stand in the offensive zone alone and give the other team essentially a PP. Easy enough to test it in the AHL/ECHL and see what happens.

Hell yeah I’m down for this. Everyone is terrified of cherry picking but if someone wants to short hand their own team then let them lol.

 

[jniklast]

Maybe just extend the the time for tagging up until both the puck an the player in possession of the puck have entered the offensive zone. It's really not the purpose of the offside rule to prohibit zone entries like Makar's.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

Because without tag-up offside once the play it is offside it is permanently that way and the defensive team can just stand around in their zone for however long they want until the ref eventually blows the whistle.

Yeah - I understand your point, but there's a pretty big difference between shooting the puck in and around the boards and carrying the puck into the zone. It's not like the officials can't tell which is which. I still think it could be simplified so we don't end up with these "Offside? Onside? Who knows? Spin the wheel of fortune we'll see what Toronto decides THIS time."

 

[LOFIN]

Interestingly in 32 thoughts, Friedman mentioned that there's someone who he is trying to get on the podcast, who is working on the background trying to get support from the players to advocate for rule changes to eliminate the kind of hits Trouba has been throwing. No idea if we are talking about a player (former or active), executive or whatever but Friedman said that eventually this move conversation will become public.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Interestingly in 32 thoughts, Friedman mentioned that there's someone who he is trying to get on the podcast, who is working on the background trying to get support from the players to advocate for rule changes to eliminate the kind of hits Trouba has been throwing. No idea if we are talking about a player (former or active), executive or whatever but Friedman said that eventually this move conversation will become public.

I mean, what would the rule change possibly be? Banning open-ice hitting? Not sure what they could do besides essentially banning hard, open-ice hits if the goal is eliminating what Trouba has been doing.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Interestingly in 32 thoughts, Friedman mentioned that there's someone who he is trying to get on the podcast, who is working on the background trying to get support from the players to advocate for rule changes to eliminate the kind of hits Trouba has been throwing. No idea if we are talking about a player (former or active), executive or whatever but Friedman said that eventually this move conversation will become public.

Probably Lemieux.

His campaign is called "no hurt penguin."

 

[LOFIN]

I mean, what would the rule change possibly be? Banning open-ice hitting? Not sure what they could do besides essentially banning hard, open-ice hits if the goal is eliminating what Trouba has been doing.

Pretty much I guess.

I've maintained for a while that I wouldn't mind that actually. Yes, the open ice hits are cool when they happen, but they are extremely rare these days anyways and don't really bring an essential element to the game. And if you can make the game safer by eliminating those hits, then I'm ok with that. But we shall see what happens. I mean fighting still exists in the game and it's just as dangerous for the players health, and even less relevant to the game. Bettman and the owners don't want to remove any of this violence until one big star player is seriously injured. Any change would have to be initiated by the players at this time.

 

[Peltz]

I mean, what would the rule change possibly be? Banning open-ice hitting? Not sure what they could do besides essentially banning hard, open-ice hits if the goal is eliminating what Trouba has been doing.

You could change making "principle point of contact to the head" illegal to simply "any contact to the head" is illegal.

It would definitely limit the number of hits without eliminating them. I think players will keep their heads low on purpose though.

 

[17futurecap]

You could change making "principle point of contact to the head" illegal to simply "any contact to the head" is illegal.

It would definitely limit the number of hits without eliminating them. I think players will keep their heads low on purpose though.

It will come soon I would guess, it's already the IIHF rule.

 

[Synergy27]

Maybe just extend the the time for tagging up until both the puck an the player in possession of the puck have entered the offensive zone. It's really not the purpose of the offside rule to prohibit zone entries like Makar's.

How about the guy that’s offsides just can’t touch the puck until he tags up/gets onside? Similar to how offsides is called in association football. Probably harder for the linesman to track but certainly closer to meeting the spirit of the rule.

 

[17futurecap]

Game 7 Monday night was watched by 2,790,000 people, number 1 on cable tv in the demos.

It beat games 1-3 of the final last year. Bettman getting out of NBC and back on to ESPN was a very smart move.

 

[jniklast]

How about the guy that’s offsides just can’t touch the puck until he tags up/gets onside? Similar to how offsides is called in association football. Probably harder for the linesman to track but certainly closer to meeting the spirit of the rule.

Yes, that's what I first thought of as well, but as you say, I think it will be very hard to track who tagged up and who did not for the linesmen on the ice.

 

[Synergy27]

Yes, that's what I first thought of as well, but as you say, I think it will be very hard to track who tagged up and who did not for the linesmen on the ice.

I can’t help but think that this is relatively easy to solve using RF tags or something.

 

[jniklast]

I can’t help but think that this is relatively easy to solve using RF tags or something.

Yeah, I think in hockey it should be rather easy to implement (unlike in soccer) due to the static offside line. The only difficulty would be determing possession of the puck.

 

[Guyute]

Interestingly in 32 thoughts, Friedman mentioned that there's someone who he is trying to get on the podcast, who is working on the background trying to get support from the players to advocate for rule changes to eliminate the kind of hits Trouba has been throwing. No idea if we are talking about a player (former or active), executive or whatever but Friedman said that eventually this move conversation will become public.

I heard that and guarantee you it's someone from the WAAH WAAH WAAH Penguins