Around the League Thread | Ixnay on Zerplanyay

[Hit the post]

what do they have to gain from getting poolman? they'd just be acquiring dead salary.

Who doesn't want an injured #6 defenseman over 30 years old with a 2.5 million cap hit?

 

[Lindgren]

what do they have to gain from getting poolman? they'd just be acquiring dead salary.

Kane being on LTIR helps them, as they can go over the cap by the equivalent of his salary. Poolman would add to that LTIR number, making the logistics of matching both offer sheets less complicated.

The general idea has been discussed pretty thoroughly: Poolman might be tradable to teams who have cap issues and who can use that LTIR money.

In addition to the discussion here, there's been coverage in the media. Canucks Army did a piece a while ago:

Here, the Canucks would have to be smart and target very specific teams. Namely, those teams that are already guaranteed to use LTIR relief space and thus be “in LTIR” all season long. Those teams can add Poolman to their effective relief pool with no real consequences – he’d arrive providing $2.5 million in relief space, covering his entire cap hit and thus not affecting the books one iota.

Is it worth the Canucks’ while to trade Tucker Poolman’s contract this summer?

 

[sting101]

Does Alvin look into whether Edmonton would now be interested in acquiring Poolman?

Kane being on LTIR helps them, as they can go over the cap by the equivalent of his salary. Poolman would add to that LTIR number, making the logistics of matching both offer sheets less complicated.

The general idea has been discussed pretty thoroughly: Poolman might be tradable to teams who have cap issues and who can use that LTIR money.

In addition to the discussion here, there's been coverage in the media. Canucks Army did a piece a while ago:


Is it worth the Canucks’ while to trade Tucker Poolman’s contract this summer?

it still doesn't change their current cap situation though so they would be just doing us a favour because they already have to use LTIR?

I'm not sure why they would help a rival be able to accrue cap space by the deadline?

 

[Lindgren]

it still doesn't change their current cap situation though so they would be just doing us a favour because they already have to use LTIR?

I'm not sure why they would help a rival be able to accrue cap space by the deadline?

It would add to the cap relief they manage through LTIR. If a team is only into LTIR by a few dollars, that's all the relief they get. If they're in for ten million, they can sign players up to that value.

As the Canucks Army piece explains, adding Poolman would add 2.5 million to the amount of relief the team acquiring him could use.

 

[sting101]

Man are the Oilers screwed if they let these 2 walk. I was already making comments about how old they had become this off season without Broberg and Holloway they are laughably so.

Just about fell out of my chair laughing reading their boards reactions when some suggested signing Toews and Barrie to replace them

Even if they decide to retain Armstrong just did us a huge solid by forcing out at least a decent roster player (probably Ceci) if they can LTIR Kane all year. By the sounds of it he's not that hurt which means they will have to make another move just to be compliant. So much for making it easier for McDavid and Draisaitl.

 

[iceburg]

Is there a historical list somewhere of offer sheets? Seems like St Louis has been involved more often than not.

 

[sting101]

It would add to the cap relief they manage through LTIR. If a team is only into LTIR by a few dollars, that's all the relief they get. If they're in for ten million, they can sign players up to that value.

As the Canucks Army piece explains, adding Poolman would add 2.5 million to the amount of relief the team acquiring him could use.

No all it would do is make them instead of 7 million over 9.5 million over.

LTIR only helps them IF Poolman was already part of their roster and couldn't play so they could use his space to replace him by going over by his contract AAV.

You don't add cap space?

 

[bandwagonesque]

Tony DeAngelo currently sitting in front of his computer with a steaming cup of coffee looking at rental listings in Edmonton

 

[Lindgren]

No all it would do is make them instead of 7 million over 9.5 million over.

LTIR only helps them IF Poolman was already part of their roster and couldn't play so they could use his space to replace him by going over by his contract AAV.

You don't add cap space?

I believe that you're wrong, and it works as the Canucks Army piece explains:

Those teams can add Poolman to their effective relief pool with no real consequences – he’d arrive providing $2.5 million in relief space, covering his entire cap hit and thus not affecting the books one iota.

It doesn't make a difference what roster the player was on when he was injured.

If the Oilers acquired Poolman, his 2.5 million would be added to the relief they'd get with Kane's contract, and that would make it easier for them to keep both guys that signed offer sheets.

 

[pitseleh]

I believe that you're wrong, and it works as the Canucks Army piece explains:


It doesn't make a difference what roster the player was on when he was injured.

If the Oilers acquired Poolman, his 2.5 million would be added to the relief they'd get with Kane's contract, and that would make it easier for them to keep both guys that signed offer sheets.

That’s saying it’s net neutral - the $2.5 million in extra LTIR space is used up by the $2.5 million from Poolman’s salary. The Oilers would be no worse off from a cap perspective but they wouldn’t benefit.

 

[sting101]

If i'm the GM i match those deals and move out some of the fossils.

Ceci with a pick attached is worth it. He's no longer an option beside Nurse which makes him a 3rd pair D and could be replaced by Stecher and Brown for the season (till deadline) with little consequence. With 1 yr remaining it should be palatable for many a teams who may want to try and turn him into another asset at the deadline as a playoff depth D.

Broberg actually looks like a top4 D to me so even if it jumps the shark in terms or AAV short term and is a kick in the nuts. Really boils down to do you believe he will be a top4 D at some point.....if not let him go....if yes sign and move out Ceci.

Holloway is a tougher one due to his production to date but if the playoffs are any indication he is an important player for them going forward. Losing a 3rd young fast forward with size and ability to drive possession up ice for yet another fossil is laughable at this stage given McDrai needs more support not less with getting pucks from A to B and within the forecheck.

As a Nucks fan i hope they let them walk and then PTO Toews and sign DeAngelo and complete the most Dueshy team of all time cycle they are willing to go down. Only thing better would be getting busted for LTIRing Kane and punished by the league at that stage and getting pumped out in the 1st round.

Highly entertaining and a great move from Armstrong. STL aside it helps us as we already have better prime aged depth than the Oil and whatever route they go they just got thinner and older by prioritizing Perry Henrique Skinner and Arvidsson over Foegele Mcloed and possibly Broberg and Holloway. Should have got their house in order will be interesting to see how this falls.

 

[Deeds26]

I believe that you're wrong, and it works as the Canucks Army piece explains:


It doesn't make a difference what roster the player was on when he was injured.

If the Oilers acquired Poolman, his 2.5 million would be added to the relief they'd get with Kane's contract, and that would make it easier for them to keep both guys that signed offer sheets.

Edmonton is 7M over the cap right now, Kane on LTIR is 2M still over.

They acquire Poolman'a 2.5M cap hit without moving someone out.

They are now 9.5M over, then put Poolman and Kane on LTIR and boom, 7.5 in LTIR and 2M over the cap still.

 

[bossram]

I believe that you're wrong, and it works as the Canucks Army piece explains:


It doesn't make a difference what roster the player was on when he was injured.

If the Oilers acquired Poolman, his 2.5 million would be added to the relief they'd get with Kane's contract, and that would make it easier for them to keep both guys that signed offer sheets.

I believe @Sting and Canucks Army are correct.

It the Oilers acquired Poolman, "it would not affect the books one iota". Yes.

Poolman's $2.5M cap hit would get added to the Oilers books, but they also get $2.5M more in LTIR relief. It's a wash.

 

[TruGr1t]

If i'm the GM i match those deals and move out some of the fossils.

Ceci with a pick attached is worth it. He's no longer an option beside Nurse which makes him a 3rd pair D and could be replaced by Stecher and Brown for the season (till deadline) with little consequence. With 1 yr remaining it should be palatable for many a teams who may want to try and turn him into another asset at the deadline as a playoff depth D.

Broberg actually looks like a top4 D to me so even if it jumps the shark in terms or AAV short term and is a kick in the nuts. Really boils down to do you believe he will be a top4 D at some point.....if not let him go....if yes sign and move out Ceci.

Holloway is a tougher one due to his production to date but if the playoffs are any indication he is an important player for them going forward. Losing a 3rd young fast forward with size and ability to drive possession up ice for yet another fossil is laughable at this stage given McDrai needs more support not less with getting pucks from A to B and within the forecheck.

As a Nucks fan i hope they let them walk and then PTO Toews and sign DeAngelo and complete the most Dueshy team of all time cycle they are willing to go down. Only thing better would be getting busted for LTIRing Kane and punished by the league at that stage and getting pumped out in the 1st round.

Highly entertaining and a great move from Armstrong. STL aside it helps us as we already have better prime aged depth than the Oil and whatever route they go they just got thinner and older by prioritizing Perry Henrique Skinner and Arvidsson over Foegele Mcloed and possibly Broberg and Holloway. Should have got their house in order will be interesting to see how this falls.

Using Kane's LTIR and waiving some guys to match is a pretty dangerous strategy. It puts you in the position to basically have to move salary to be compliant and possibly running a short-handed roster. Other GMs will rake you over the coals to move dollars if you put yourself in that position, and the Oilers are already short draft picks and prospects.

Kulak and Ceci do not carry enough value to actually be moved for a reasonable price in that scenario, they basically become forced salary dumps that will require substantial add-ons to move since other teams know you have basically no choice.

The Oilers could do it, but they'd essentially be completely gutting their future pool to compete over the next two years.

 

[sting101]

Using Kane's LTIR and waiving some guys to match is a pretty dangerous strategy. It puts you in the position to basically have to move salary to be compliant and possibly running a short-handed roster. Other GMs will rake you over the coals to move dollars if you put yourself in that position, and the Oilers are already short draft picks and prospects.

Kulak and Ceci do not carry enough value to actually be moved for a reasonable price in that scenario, they basically become forced salary dumps that will require substantial add-ons to move since other teams know you have basically no choice.

The Oilers could do it, but they'd essentially be completely gutting their future pool to compete over the next two years.

This should be of little concern.

The singular goal should be the next 1-3yrs. Look at how old that team is.

It really boils down to can Holloway and Broberg if they were UFAs be worth close to those contracts with a little consideration for the fact that Ceci with Nurse is an absolute NO GO and the forward group has already become older and more inury prone due to some signings that they thought they could finesse with a push from Holloway and Savoie.

If i'm a believer in Holloway as a 30-35pt top9 player and Broberg as at least a #5 who can be used as a top4 while he grows into a legit top4 and he helps settle the Nurse pairing it's a no brainer. They both fit the back end of the competitive cycle which is what you want

Ceci wont be that expensive because he has 1yr and teams as much as they will want to squeeze the Oilers will want the 2nd round pick and deadline pick they likely get. It wont get to 1st round territory and the Oilers shouldn't give 2 Fs about a 2026 2nd round pick

 

[Lindgren]

I believe @Sting and Canucks Army are correct.

It the Oilers acquired Poolman, "it would not affect the books one iota". Yes.

Poolman's $2.5M cap hit would get added to the Oilers books, but they also get $2.5M more in LTIR relief. It's a wash.

I think that's incorrect. It's not a wash. "added to the books" means they have to pay the money (though it may be insured), but doing so doesn't hurt their cap position. It helps it.

Those teams can add Poolman to their effective relief pool with no real consequences – he’d arrive providing $2.5 million in relief space, covering his entire cap hit and thus not affecting the books one iota.

He'd provide 2.5 million in relief space. The "not affecting the books" bit is an unclear way to say that the extra salary isn't a problem for them.

But perhaps I'm wrong about all of this. Wouldn't be the first time. Can teams who are at the cap and into LTIR not "go over" the cap by the LTIR amount? If not, what's meant by "cap relief"?

Ah, maybe I'm beginning to see. The Canucks can "go over the cap" with Poolman on LTIR, but they're not allowed to "go over the cap" on the active roster. So the best the Canucks can find in a trading partner for Poolman is a team for whom it's "a wash," and not a team for whom it provides any kind of advantage.

So the Oilers would not be in a better position to match the offer sheets. "Duh" say several posters.

 

[sting101]

@Lindgren it really doesn't do anything to help them. How do you get more relief when Poolman has to be accounted for? Read what @Deeds26 said. They would only be doing us a favor given Poolman is not already a Oiler and was accounted for under the Cap ceiling at some point here so we were able to back fill his salary into our AAV due to LTIR

 

[Hit the post]

That’s saying it’s net neutral - the $2.5 million in extra LTIR space is used up by the $2.5 million from Poolman’s salary. The Oilers would be no worse off from a cap perspective but they wouldn’t benefit.

Though it would benefit their rival (us) which goes to the heart of Gordon Sumner's sarcasm main point (Oilers aren't go to be doing us any favors if it doesn't benefit them).

 

[Lindgren]

@Lindgren it really doesn't do anything to help them. How do you get more relief when Poolman has to be accounted for? Read what @Deeds26 said. They would only be doing us a favor given Poolman is not already a Oiler and was accounted for under the Cap ceiling at some point here so we were able to back fill his salary into our AAV due to LTIR

I think I've figured it out (see my addition to my post above (or not)).

 

[DFAC]

Such a shrewd gamble by STL - I love it.

Pay a 2nd and 3rd for two 1st round picks who could really flourish with a bigger role. This is how you weaponize cap space against a cap strapped team. And you can hurt the Conference favourites chances of repeating? Bravo.

If I'm Edmonton - I match for Holloway and let Broberg walk.

 

[Wisp]

It would add to the cap relief they manage through LTIR.

no it wouldn't

canucks would need to take a salaried roster player back for this to make sense for them. Eg, a player with salary they can't stash on LTIR traded for a player they can (Poolman).

And I don't want Ceci or whoever they're trying to dump.

 

[DFAC]

Is there a historical list somewhere of offer sheets? Seems like St Louis has been involved more often than not.

List of NHL players who have signed offer sheets

This is a list of National Hockey League players who have signed offer sheets. In the NHL, players who are restricted free agents can be, after being qualified by their current team, signed by another team to an offer sheet with salary greater than the qualifying offer. Teams have seven days to...

icehockey.fandom.com

 

[TruGr1t]

This should be of little concern.

The singular goal should be the next 1-3yrs. Look at how old that team is.

It really boils down to can Holloway and Broberg if they were UFAs be worth close to those contracts with a little consideration for the fact that Ceci with Nurse is an absolute NO GO and the forward group has already become older and more inury prone due to some signings that they thought they could finesse with a push from Holloway and Savoie.

If i'm a believer in Holloway as a 30-35pt top9 player and Broberg as at least a #5 who can be used as a top4 while he grows into a legit top4 and he helps settle the Nurse pairing it's a no brainer. They both fit the back end of the competitive cycle which is what you want

Ceci wont be that expensive because he has 1yr and teams as much as they will want to squeeze the Oilers will want the 2nd round pick and deadline pick they likely get. It wont get to 1st round territory and the Oilers shouldn't give 2 Fs about a 2026 2nd round pick

We'll see, the proof will be in the pudding when the situation resolves, mainly if they let Broberg walk and take the comp. I think you're underestimating the risk (not just near-term, but over the next two years) for the Oilers to swallow these contracts. I wouldn't honestly be surprised either way, but there's reason the Blues waited until the Oilers final buy-out window lapsed and structured the offers that way. It is a tough decision for Edmonton either way, and will cause them pain regardless. They could just try to waive Ceci, but I'm not sure the likelihood they do that, or that he's claimed.

They were obviously trying to nickel-and-dime the two players and work around with Kane's LTIR over the short term, so these contracts are substantially above what they planned on paying.

 

[canucksfan]

If I am the Oilers I trade Ceci to a team. Obviously, you would have to attach a pick and or prospect.

This is likely their last chance to win it.

 

[bandwagonesque]

We'll see, the proof will be in the pudding when the situation resolves, mainly if they let Broberg walk and take the comp. I think you're underestimating the risk (not just near-term, but over the next two years) for the Oilers to swallow these contracts. I wouldn't honestly be surprised either way, but there's reason the Blues waited until the Oilers final buy-out window lapsed and structured the offers that way. It is a tough decision for Edmonton either way, and will cause them pain regardless. They could just try to waive Ceci, but I'm not sure the likelihood they do that, or that he's claimed.

They were obviously trying to nickel-and-dime the two players and work around with Kane's LTIR over the short term, so these contracts are substantially above what they planned on paying.

If I am the Oilers I trade Ceci to a team. Obviously, you would have to attach a pick and or prospect.

This is likely their last chance to win it.

I think Ceci would be claimed on waivers quite easily. I also think it's probably more sensible to simply let Broberg go to St Louis.