Around the League Thread | Ixnay on Zerplanyay

[wetcoast]

Betting on taking a player in a future draft and handing an 8-year contract to a 29-year old goalie instead of going with the prospect you developed and who has exceeded expectations would certainly be... a choice. It simply looks like they're putting all of their chips in for a playoff push with old players. I've only ever seen the early 2000s Rangers do this.

I agree with your line of thinking except maybe Nashville thinks that Saros is really that good?

I know that goalie coaches absolutely love Saros and some think that he is the best goalie in the league.

 

[wetcoast]

nashville seem in an alright situation to me. i dunno about that stamkos contract or the marchessault contract but the o'reilly, josi and skjei contracts are all fine. the novak and forsberg contracts are very good. the saaros contract might go bad but goalies tend to (lti-)retire rather than play passed their prime

they've got 3 first round picks and 2 seconds in the upcoming draft and they just made six selections in the top 100 in this last draft. they don't have any important players looking at big raises in the next three years either. they're not under any salary cap pressure

i think they lack talent currently but there's no easy solution to that. they certainly haven't really given up any key talent since trotz took over

I don't disagree and while they did have 6 picks in the top 100 last draft their pool lacks dynamic impact prospects IMO.

But having 2 excellent goalies isn't like having 2 stud Dmen or 2 stud centers for any team and it's a supply, demand and opportunity game.

 

[StreetHawk]

I don't disagree and while they did have 6 picks in the top 100 last draft their pool lacks dynamic impact prospects IMO.

But having 2 excellent goalies isn't like having 2 stud Dmen or 2 stud centers for any team and it's a supply, demand and opportunity game.

If you view it as what they passed over in 2020, they’d be a better club now with a Lundell or Jarvis who went right afterwards.

If you view it as they don’t need 2 good goalies they can reboot it by 5 years by taking ravensbergen in 2025. If you view it as making the best of what they currently can do.

 

[wetcoast]

If you view it as what they passed over in 2020, they’d be a better club now with a Lundell or Jarvis who went right afterwards.

If you view it as they don’t need 2 good goalies they can reboot it by 5 years by taking ravensbergen in 2025. If you view it as making the best of what they currently can do.

Sure hindsight is 20/20 but Saros had only emerged as the starter for nashville towards the end of that season in 20 and didn't have a very good playoffs and even knowing what we know now we don't know if Lundell or Jarvis were next on their list and they haven't been home runs yet either as Askarov may still out to be the best player of the 3 when it's all said and done.

 

[StreetHawk]

Sure hindsight is 20/20 but Saros had only emerged as the starter for nashville towards the end of that season in 20 and didn't have a very good playoffs and even knowing what we know now we don't know if Lundell or Jarvis were next on their list and they haven't been home runs yet either as Askarov may still out to be the best player of the 3 when it's all said and done.

I was surprised to see Nash take him at 11 given their history of developing goalies like Sarros, Rinne, etc. vs drafting 1st rounders Finley and Pickard in 1999 and 2008. But, this is what happens when GMs change. If Poile was still running things, this might have played out different. Who knows..

 

[VanJack]

Predicting more than a few hockey poolsters will get burned by Marchessault and Stamkos in Music City. No way they'll replicate what they did in Tampa and Vegas.

 

[F A N]

I was surprised to see Nash take him at 11 given their history of developing goalies like Sarros, Rinne, etc. vs drafting 1st rounders Finley and Pickard in 1999 and 2008. But, this is what happens when GMs change. If Poile was still running things, this might have played out different. Who knows..

Goalies are hard to value. Askarov was highly ranked (as a potential top 10 pick). Sometimes it does work though. Didn't Montreal draft Price when they had Theodore was still good? I do wonder how much Askarov would be worth in a trade if he was say traded next summer if he looks like he's going to reach expectations. But you never know. In summer 2022, who would have thought that the Panthers would win a Cup with Bobrovsky and not Knight?

 

[StreetHawk]

Askarov needed nhl games to increase his value imo. So if one main reason for him asking for a trade out now was because he felt wedgewood being on a one way deal prevented that, and that ended up playing out he’d be in the A most of the season.

8 goalies went in the first round from 2005-2009. Then it drastically changed with 10 going in the first from 2010-2024 with zero the past 3 drafts. Plans can change if the GM changes over in say 4 years post draft of the goalie. Poile and Tallon are gone and they took Askarov/Knight. Guerin/Yzerman still there for wallstedt/Cossa but it’s been 3 years and that’s early to expect a goalie to make the nhl. Neither of these clubs have a starter like Fla and Nash did so expect those kids to at least get a shot on the big club in 2 years.

 

[bossram]

I dont care if they if they ask for a trade either, player freedom to do what he wants.
but pull the bandaid off. Ghosting an NHL GM for months, like how old are you?

Just tell him straight up, it would be over in a few minutes.

Him and Gauthier look like clowns
even Briere said he wish he just told them this, and instead of avoiding him at the world juniors, and not returning lots of phone calls.

Do GMs regularly tell players, "hey, we're trying to trade you" well in advance of actually being traded? Not really. Some guys literally find out from social media.

It's an analogous situation. Again, don't really care either way.

 

[bossram]

Small market team rebuilding is a tough sell. It’s hard to build back fan interest. It’s not as simple as, oh they just have to endure several years of suck and then fans will show up once they start to be good. It takes many years to build up interest to be at a point where you can suck and then fans will show up willing to pay up once you are good again like we have here in Van. Look at the other small market teams that have been good for awhile, the seats are still cheap as f***. I am guessing that’s why the Preds refuse to rebuild.

The Predators have a decent core and added to it significantly on the off-season without mortgaging the future. They have 3 1st round picks in 2025, 2 retention slots with a 3rd opening up after this season, and no one apart from Saros signed for more than 4 seasons. They've added 2-3 years to their competitive window and should have a better outlook to rebuild afterwards than they do now. Trying to rebuild by moving guys like Forsberg, Josi, etc usually fails -- adding good players to a decent core often succeeds.

I literally never said the Preds should rebuild. Both are creating a strawman of an argument that isn't remotely similar to what I've said.

I thought the Preds were already on an upward trajectory and should have continued with the roster transition and turnover they were already undergoing. I think what their offseason moves have done is limited their competitive window to a very narrow range and capped their max upside below what it could have been.

 

[StreetHawk]

I literally never said the Preds should rebuild. Both are creating a strawman of an argument that isn't remotely similar to what I've said.

I thought the Preds were already on an upward trajectory and should have continued with the roster transition and turnover they were already undergoing. I think what their offseason moves have done is limited their competitive window to a very narrow range and capped their max upside below what it could have been.

Canucks really are not much more better off than Nash competitively. Van has Petey/Miller who are higher end better than what Nash has. High end dman and goaltending comparable. But, Van due to lack of prospects is going to be hard pressed to have depth in the next couple of seasons. Nash has some prospects, but nothing really high end.

 

[bossram]

Canucks really are not much more better off than Nash competitively. Van has Petey/Miller who are higher end better than what Nash has. High end dman and goaltending comparable. But, Van due to lack of prospects is going to be hard pressed to have depth in the next couple of seasons. Nash has some prospects, but nothing really high end.

High end talent is what wins championships. Petey/Miller/Quinn are all better than the "equivalent" pieces for Nashville. They're also younger. VAN is much better positioned from that alone.

 

[Jerry the great]

Canucks really are not much more better off than Nash competitively. Van has Petey/Miller who are higher end better than what Nash has. High end dman and goaltending comparable. But, Van due to lack of prospects is going to be hard pressed to have depth in the next couple of seasons. Nash has some prospects, but nothing really high end.

Vancouver's entire core (apart from Miller) is well under 30. Nashville has 1 core player under 30 and just tripled down aging core players. Skjei was a reasonable signing, but the other two were head scratchers IMO. Apart from those additions, they've done a solid job of retooling on the fly - they've given and continue to provide their scouting/player development staff with a ton of ammunition. We'll see how the next couple season work out for them, but I'd have not signed Stamkos /Marchessault and run with a duo of Askarov+Lankinen while moving Saros for something needle moving (Marner?).

 

[arttk]

I literally never said the Preds should rebuild. Both are creating a strawman of an argument that isn't remotely similar to what I've said.

I thought the Preds were already on an upward trajectory and should have continued with the roster transition and turnover they were already undergoing. I think what their offseason moves have done is limited their competitive window to a very narrow range and capped their max upside below what it could have been.

That’s fair, I misread what you were trying to say.
I don’t know if it caps their upside. Josi is like 34 and have like 3-4 years left. It makes sense to go more in within that 3-4 years, slow building won’t overcome losing a guy of that kind of quality.

 

[Brock Boeser Laser Show]

Nashville is a pretender until they upgrade at center ice. Mid 30's ROR and plumbers isn't going to cut it in the west. It was pretty evident in the playoff series that the minutes were too much for ROR and you would be hard pressed to come up with any memorable moments from the rest of the centers. If Elias didn't shit the bed the gap between the two teams at center would've been massive.

 

[Scumbag Frank]

Nashville is a pretender until they upgrade at center ice. Mid 30's ROR and plumbers isn't going to cut it in the west. It was pretty evident in the playoff series that the minutes were too much for ROR and you would be hard pressed to come up with any memorable moments from the rest of the centers. If Elias didn't shit the bed the gap between the two teams at center would've been massive.

Well now that you've jinxed him, Tommy Novak is about to match his pace from 2 years ago and put up 70 points with Stamkos and Marchessault on his wings, and for $3.5M
And Sissons is a fine 3C

 

[F A N]

Nashville is a pretender until they upgrade at center ice. Mid 30's ROR and plumbers isn't going to cut it in the west. It was pretty evident in the playoff series that the minutes were too much for ROR and you would be hard pressed to come up with any memorable moments from the rest of the centers. If Elias didn't shit the bed the gap between the two teams at center would've been massive.

They should acquire Tavares to fulfill Leafs' fans old pipe dream.

 

[VanJack]

I see Filip Zadina is still trying to catch on with an NHL team as a PTO, with training camp looming. Although he did score a career high 13 goals with the Sharks last season, he was also a -44. And they chose not to qualify him.

Seems like only yesterday when the Wings passed on drafting the local Michigan U player Quinn Hughes at sixth overall, and drafted Zadina instead. Almost makes you feel a little less depressed about the Canucks drafting Oli Juolevi at 5th overall, instead of Matthew Tkachuk at 6th overall in 2016.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I see Filip Zadina is still trying to catch on with an NHL team as a PTO, with training camp looming. Although he did score a career high 13 goals with the Sharks last season, he was also a -44. And they chose not to qualify him.

Seems like only yesterday when the Wings passed on drafting the local Michigan U player Quinn Hughes at sixth overall, and drafted Zadina instead. Almost makes you feel a little less depressed about the Canucks drafting Oli Juolevi at 5th overall, instead of Matthew Tkachuk at 6th overall in 2016.

Us getting Hughes was the hockey gods taking pity on the fanbase for Benning's incompetence.

"Even you can't possibly f*** this up!"

 

[wonton15]

I think Hughes could beat up Zegras in a fight

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I see Filip Zadina is still trying to catch on with an NHL team as a PTO, with training camp looming. Although he did score a career high 13 goals with the Sharks last season, he was also a -44. And they chose not to qualify him.

Seems like only yesterday when the Wings passed on drafting the local Michigan U player Quinn Hughes at sixth overall, and drafted Zadina instead.

such an interesting genre of pick, the self-own passing up of the local kid for a rando

detroit with zadina not hughes

montreal with wickenheiser not denis savard

but sometimes it works out:

us with kesler not jeff tambellini

colorado with mackinnon not seth jones

greatest example ever imo is the pacers with reggie miller instead of some mid white guy, which enraged cracker-ass indiana so much that they eventually burned down miller’s house

 

[Vector]

This is really cool.

 

[AlainVigneaultsGum]

such an interesting genre of pick, the self-own passing up of the local kid for a rando

detroit with zadina not hughes

montreal with wickenheiser not denis savard

but sometimes it works out:

us with kesler not jeff tambellini

colorado with mackinnon not seth jones

greatest example ever imo is the pacers with reggie miller instead of some mid white guy, which enraged cracker-ass indiana so much that they eventually burned down miller’s house

Or Virtanen instead o..f***, nvm.

 

[MS]

such an interesting genre of pick, the self-own passing up of the local kid for a rando

detroit with zadina not hughes

montreal with wickenheiser not denis savard

but sometimes it works out:

us with kesler not jeff tambellini

colorado with mackinnon not seth jones

greatest example ever imo is the pacers with reggie miller instead of some mid white guy, which enraged cracker-ass indiana so much that they eventually burned down miller’s house

Edmonton drafting Steve Kelly when the draft was in Edmonton and the fans were chanting for hometown guy Shane Doan.

Best NHL example of the reverse will forever be this:

 

[krutovsdonut]

such an interesting genre of pick, the self-own passing up of the local kid for a rando

detroit with zadina not hughes

montreal with wickenheiser not denis savard

but sometimes it works out:

us with kesler not jeff tambellini

colorado with mackinnon not seth jones

greatest example ever imo is the pacers with reggie miller instead of some mid white guy, which enraged cracker-ass indiana so much that they eventually burned down miller’s house

greatest local example is the grizzlies passing on steve nash. they didn't take him seriously as a player. it was nothing to do with him being local.